Venice bans kebab shops to ‘preserve decorum and traditions' of city
May 8, 2017, 6:15 pm
#17
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I'm fascinated by the pictures that you posted, anrkitec. I had no idea such huge ships were allowed to dock near Venice. No wonder there is pedestrian congestion in certain areas. I've stayed just a bit further from St Marks and haven't seen it. I've seen lots of people, sure, but I've still been able to get around easily.
May 8, 2017, 6:54 pm
#18
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I'm fascinated by the pictures that you posted, anrkitec. I had no idea such huge ships were allowed to dock near Venice. No wonder there is pedestrian congestion in certain areas. I've stayed just a bit further from St Marks and haven't seen it. I've seen lots of people, sure, but I've still been able to get around easily.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone out there has a website to plan one's visit around the ships.
May 8, 2017, 7:54 pm
#19
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The title of this thread is completely under-informed. Tourism in Venice, Florence, and certain other places is breaking the backbone of the cities, causing residents to flee, but not tourists, as the number of tourists continuously breaks annual records by 3-5% every year.
Venice did not ban kabobs, and I consider that headline to be inflammatory (which is not the fault of the poster, but of the newspaper).
I didn't want to post it here, but just a few weeks ago the Venice police busted a group of Jihadis who were getting ready to blow up the Rialto Bridge, because there are so many tourists packed upon it that it makes an inviting target.
Venice must be protected. What Venice finally did after years of planning, was develop a comprehensive Plan to preserve the city for another thousand years. That includes Project Emmanuel to get the cruise ships out, reigning in AirBnb and similar businesses (just like San Francisco, New York, Chicago, Austin, etc.) and not just banning shish kebabs. They are banned all new fast food outlets in San Marco Square, because people buy food to go and sit on the steps of the Basilica and have a picnic. You have to crawl over them to get in.
Florence just did the same by banning a McDonalds from opening up in front of the Duomo, and banning all other new fast food places from the historic city center. The Vatican recently banned the opening of a McDonalds, right next to where the Pope lives.
Venice, like other cities, is hopefully getting their act together. The words, "banning shish kebab," was something that some newspapers took out of context out of the hundreds of pages of new regulations that do everything from re-routing cruise ships, to counting the number of visitors coming in each day, and setting an upper limit.
The "kebab" thing is nonsense, because they also banned take-out pizza, panini, and anything else you can eat outside while holding in your hand, with the exception of gelato, because it will melt in your hand before you get very far.
The pictures shouldn't shock you. Venice in the summer can be hellish. It's not much bigger than Central Park in NYC. Imagine 6-10 cruise ships dropping off 6-10,000 people, and all head to Strawberry Field. Imagine Central Park has been divided into a bunch of alleys too narrow to fit a car, and in some cases, too narrow to open up an umbrella. However, all of those people are hell bent on going to one place, Strawberry Fields, and then walking to the Central Park Reservoir through a few narrow paths selling tourist trinkets. (I'm sorry for those who don't know NYC to understand that).
Here is the ironic part, if all of those people are crammed into Strawberry Fields and the the Reservoir, it leaves the rest of Central Park enjoyable! That's the same with Venice. Parts are empty almost all the time, and other parts are a horror to visit, except from late November to early February.
The kebab thing was a sentence taken out of numerous articles about re-routing cruise ships, having "red days," where they count the number of tourists who have passed into Venice, and declare it "situation red," and don't allow anymore in until a certain number (also being counted) have left, this way everyone can enjoy Venice in peace.
The reality is, Venice is the most romantic and enjoyable city in Venice, arguably. At least many cultural experts say that if you can only go to Italy once, that's where you should go, because there's no place like it, especially if you are interested in romance. Just stay out of San Marco Square, except early or late in the day.
Just as many places are, Venice is divided up into touristy parts, and the parts that have remained the same for centuries. Venice is enacting a few dozen things that they should have done once the cruise ships started to make it a key spot for day-trippers not interested in visiting Italy, just checking it off of a list and saying, "we've been to Venice."
The plans to regulate the over-tourism has been covered in another thread in this forum, with translated articles that have been appearing almost daily.
Here is an article from the Venice paper just today: http://www.veneziatoday.it/cronaca/m...o-venezia.html
"The influx of tourists. Mayor Brugnaro is against requiring tourists to buy a ticket to get into Venice: We are thinking of doing that ad hoc." (Meaning when they are going to start counting the number of people coming and going, and setting "red zone" limits).
For unfortunate reasons, some newspapers chose to ignore the rerouting of the cruise ships and all the other sustainable tourism changes, like converting all vaporetti to electric in order to reduce pollution from diesel, and then chose to use the words "shish kabob" out of one of the many reasonable steps Venice is taking, which the citizens who live there overwhelmingly voted in favor of.
Some quotes in this thread are unreal. Not every having stepped over piles of garbage? The bill for taking out the garbage left by tourists in Piazza San Marco is is over $23,000,000 euros per year. It overflows the barrels, not because Venice doesn't want to service the city, but because the garbage has to be taken out by boat, and only certain amounts of boats can fit into the canals to take out the garbage, while also accommodating gondolas and local people trying to get to and from work, delivering furniture from the mainland for people who bought something, bringing all food to Venice, locals trying to take their kids to school. The aren't enough canals to take garbage out left by tourists during high season.
Venice is taking dozens of steps to ensure its future, something that other threatened cities have already done, and are now holding up Venice as an even more far-reaching model, and all that makes the headlines in english newspapers is, "Venice is banning shish kebab."
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/italy...san-marco.html
Venice did not ban kabobs, and I consider that headline to be inflammatory (which is not the fault of the poster, but of the newspaper).
I didn't want to post it here, but just a few weeks ago the Venice police busted a group of Jihadis who were getting ready to blow up the Rialto Bridge, because there are so many tourists packed upon it that it makes an inviting target.
Venice must be protected. What Venice finally did after years of planning, was develop a comprehensive Plan to preserve the city for another thousand years. That includes Project Emmanuel to get the cruise ships out, reigning in AirBnb and similar businesses (just like San Francisco, New York, Chicago, Austin, etc.) and not just banning shish kebabs. They are banned all new fast food outlets in San Marco Square, because people buy food to go and sit on the steps of the Basilica and have a picnic. You have to crawl over them to get in.
Florence just did the same by banning a McDonalds from opening up in front of the Duomo, and banning all other new fast food places from the historic city center. The Vatican recently banned the opening of a McDonalds, right next to where the Pope lives.
Venice, like other cities, is hopefully getting their act together. The words, "banning shish kebab," was something that some newspapers took out of context out of the hundreds of pages of new regulations that do everything from re-routing cruise ships, to counting the number of visitors coming in each day, and setting an upper limit.
The "kebab" thing is nonsense, because they also banned take-out pizza, panini, and anything else you can eat outside while holding in your hand, with the exception of gelato, because it will melt in your hand before you get very far.
The pictures shouldn't shock you. Venice in the summer can be hellish. It's not much bigger than Central Park in NYC. Imagine 6-10 cruise ships dropping off 6-10,000 people, and all head to Strawberry Field. Imagine Central Park has been divided into a bunch of alleys too narrow to fit a car, and in some cases, too narrow to open up an umbrella. However, all of those people are hell bent on going to one place, Strawberry Fields, and then walking to the Central Park Reservoir through a few narrow paths selling tourist trinkets. (I'm sorry for those who don't know NYC to understand that).
Here is the ironic part, if all of those people are crammed into Strawberry Fields and the the Reservoir, it leaves the rest of Central Park enjoyable! That's the same with Venice. Parts are empty almost all the time, and other parts are a horror to visit, except from late November to early February.
The kebab thing was a sentence taken out of numerous articles about re-routing cruise ships, having "red days," where they count the number of tourists who have passed into Venice, and declare it "situation red," and don't allow anymore in until a certain number (also being counted) have left, this way everyone can enjoy Venice in peace.
The reality is, Venice is the most romantic and enjoyable city in Venice, arguably. At least many cultural experts say that if you can only go to Italy once, that's where you should go, because there's no place like it, especially if you are interested in romance. Just stay out of San Marco Square, except early or late in the day.
Just as many places are, Venice is divided up into touristy parts, and the parts that have remained the same for centuries. Venice is enacting a few dozen things that they should have done once the cruise ships started to make it a key spot for day-trippers not interested in visiting Italy, just checking it off of a list and saying, "we've been to Venice."
The plans to regulate the over-tourism has been covered in another thread in this forum, with translated articles that have been appearing almost daily.
Here is an article from the Venice paper just today: http://www.veneziatoday.it/cronaca/m...o-venezia.html
"The influx of tourists. Mayor Brugnaro is against requiring tourists to buy a ticket to get into Venice: We are thinking of doing that ad hoc." (Meaning when they are going to start counting the number of people coming and going, and setting "red zone" limits).
For unfortunate reasons, some newspapers chose to ignore the rerouting of the cruise ships and all the other sustainable tourism changes, like converting all vaporetti to electric in order to reduce pollution from diesel, and then chose to use the words "shish kabob" out of one of the many reasonable steps Venice is taking, which the citizens who live there overwhelmingly voted in favor of.
Some quotes in this thread are unreal. Not every having stepped over piles of garbage? The bill for taking out the garbage left by tourists in Piazza San Marco is is over $23,000,000 euros per year. It overflows the barrels, not because Venice doesn't want to service the city, but because the garbage has to be taken out by boat, and only certain amounts of boats can fit into the canals to take out the garbage, while also accommodating gondolas and local people trying to get to and from work, delivering furniture from the mainland for people who bought something, bringing all food to Venice, locals trying to take their kids to school. The aren't enough canals to take garbage out left by tourists during high season.
Venice is taking dozens of steps to ensure its future, something that other threatened cities have already done, and are now holding up Venice as an even more far-reaching model, and all that makes the headlines in english newspapers is, "Venice is banning shish kebab."
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/italy...san-marco.html
Last edited by Perche; May 9, 2017 at 7:42 am
May 8, 2017, 8:58 pm
#20
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The cruise ship terminal is is right next to Santa Lucia station where the Ponte della Liberta meets the city, barely ~6000 feet from St. Marks, but if you're lucky enough to be there when there aren't any [or few] ships in port, I am sure it is much more pleasant.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone out there has a website to plan one's visit around the ships.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone out there has a website to plan one's visit around the ships.
BTW, did you see the link to the Biennale? Sounds good this year...http://www.labiennale.org/en/art/information/
May 8, 2017, 9:35 pm
#21
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anrkitec, thanks for the photos of cruise ship hell. I don't know if there is an official website dedicated to avoiding cruise ships, but I go to Venice every November. I guess that is when the ships migrate to the caribbean. The photos you posted must be during the summer med cruise months. Those ships are not in Venice during my favorite months. I can not imagine my favorite city in the world being invaded by thousands and thousands of tourists on any given day.
BTW, did you see the link to the Biennale? Sounds good this year...http://www.labiennale.org/en/art/information/
BTW, did you see the link to the Biennale? Sounds good this year...http://www.labiennale.org/en/art/information/
This is the link to Venice -
http://www.cruisemapper.com/ports/ve...9?tab=schedule
May 9, 2017, 5:26 am
#22
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I found this website when I was trying to sneak in a couple of days in Cinque Terre this June. (Since changed to the Lakes.). Don't know how comprehensive it is, since I changed plans. But I did find a significant difference day to day in the number and size of ships in port at La Spezia.
This is the link to Venice -
http://www.cruisemapper.com/ports/ve...9?tab=schedule
This is the link to Venice -
http://www.cruisemapper.com/ports/ve...9?tab=schedule
May 9, 2017, 5:38 am
#23
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Piazza San Marco after the cruise ships leave. http://nuovavenezia.gelocal.it/venez...uti-1.12169916
May 9, 2017, 5:42 am
#24
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See all of the pots and pans? This family decided to have a cook-out right in front of San Marco Basilica in Piazza San Marco. You can't even walk past them.
Last edited by Perche; May 9, 2017 at 7:43 am
May 9, 2017, 8:43 am
#27
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Most ships, if they are leaving the Med for the winter, will leave in late October, early November for the Caribbean, so that the ships will be in the Caribbean for cruises the week of Thanksgiving. Similarly in the spring, the ships generally start leaving the Caribbean to head back to Europe mid April to early May. Something to remember if traveling anywhere that would be a possible cruise ship port.
May 9, 2017, 8:47 am
#28
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May 9, 2017, 8:56 am
#29
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Holy crap. I can't believe those kinds of ships were ever allowed into Venice to begin with.
There were definitely none the days we were there. Ours was a two-night stay at a Booking.com apartment, which I realize isn't terribly different than an Airbnb. (Hopefully our unit's owner abided by local laws...I tend to think of Booking.com as a little more like VRBO plus some licensed B&Bs, and a lot more responsible than Airbnb.) San Marco was not too crowded, and I have photos from exactly where that massive cruise ship is, mine taken from one of the small local boats.
Without the cruise ships, it seems like the lack of megahotels acts as a governor on the total number of people there. It's kind of a pain in the butt to get out there from the mainland just for a daytrip, so if you can't get a room you probably aren't going or you're maybe doing it once. So yes, it seems like their main fix should be limiting the number of ships that can dock at one time.
I'm guessing that eliminating them entirely isn't going to happen. I'm also assuming that cruise ships the world over like to disgorge their passengers at 8AM and take them back at 4PM...there's no realistic way to stagger that enough to make a difference.
There were definitely none the days we were there. Ours was a two-night stay at a Booking.com apartment, which I realize isn't terribly different than an Airbnb. (Hopefully our unit's owner abided by local laws...I tend to think of Booking.com as a little more like VRBO plus some licensed B&Bs, and a lot more responsible than Airbnb.) San Marco was not too crowded, and I have photos from exactly where that massive cruise ship is, mine taken from one of the small local boats.
Without the cruise ships, it seems like the lack of megahotels acts as a governor on the total number of people there. It's kind of a pain in the butt to get out there from the mainland just for a daytrip, so if you can't get a room you probably aren't going or you're maybe doing it once. So yes, it seems like their main fix should be limiting the number of ships that can dock at one time.
I'm guessing that eliminating them entirely isn't going to happen. I'm also assuming that cruise ships the world over like to disgorge their passengers at 8AM and take them back at 4PM...there's no realistic way to stagger that enough to make a difference.
May 9, 2017, 9:10 am
#30
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They might be able to stagger some of the ships that are just making day stops. For example in San Juan, some ships stop from 7am to 2pm, and others from 2pm to say 10pm, with very few ships getting a full day in San Juan, except for cruises that start/end in San Juan. Something similar could help in Venice. But it would still be a lot of people in Venice, especially as there are lots of cruises that do start or end in Venice and those cruises do need the full day for the turnaround - maybe discouraging that, increasing the port fees for cruises that start/end in Venice would be another solution.