PWMTrav

Any opportunity to travel is an ideal time to do it with your kids. My 4 year old has been to more places than I saw by age 30. Adjust the daily schedule accordingly and have fun.

hhychin

Thanks for the suggestions. I will look into them.

hhychin

I wanted to post an update on our trip. This forum was so helpful that I want to leave my thoughts behind for others researching a similar trip. We were a family of 4.

In Firenze, we stayed at the Portrait Firenze and I have to say it was one of our best experiences at a hotel. I would rate it in the same category as a Four Seasons. The reason we went with this hotel was that it offers a Family Suite which consists of a living room and a separate bedroom. There was also a small kitchenette. It also has 2 bathrooms which is nice when traveling with 2 daughters. We were unable to get a reservation at Pinchiorri on our own but the hotel secured it for us. Also we waited too long to get tickets to see David and again, the hotel came through for us. And the Ferragamo shampoo, lotions, etc. were an added bonus. Location was central, right next to Ponte Vecchio.

As for dining in Firenze. Pinchiorri was fine. But as others have said, to travel all the way to Italy and have food which isn't all that Italian was probably not the best idea, especially since I have access to 3 starred restaurants much closer by. Our best meal (counting out Pinchiorri since it's in a different category) was at Sostanza -- the butter chicken is indeed that good. Del Fagioli was also excellent but Da Ruggero was just so-so. Vestri was such a cute chocolate store decked out with all the Easter candy.

In Venezia, we stayed at Palazzo Ruzzini. This was our least favorite of the hotels. The Palazzo itself was a really nice old building with sky high ceilings. We had tons of room -- again, a suite with a separate bedroom. The view was definitely the best at this hotel with a wide open view of Campo Formosa. But the linens were thin and in general things didn't seem to run as smoothly. We had no cups at all in the suite other than 2 coffee cups which were not replaced during our stay. There was no in-room coffee. Only tea and a tea kettle. Location was good being not too close and not too far from San Marco.

For dining, we had great meals at Antiche Carampane and Alle Testiere. We tried to go to CoVino for lunch but when we got there, there was a sign that said they sometimes close on Mondays. Both it and Al Vino are closed on Tues. and Wed. so that was it for our chance.

In Milano, we stayed at Hotel Spadari Al Duomo. We had two rooms as I couldn't find a suite that met our needs. It was well run. Good linens. Very centrally located. Right next to Peck. Steps from Cracco. It seemed everywhere we turned it was another great food opportunity. Also so very close to the Duomo and the Galleria.

We ate at Trippa and it was an excellent restaurant. I have never had such good bone marrow. If I weren't so full, I would have ordered several more of them. Interesting tuna mousse and I finally got my tripe.

obscure2k

hhychin. Thanks for the update. Always good to know that FT advice is helpful.
Antiche Carampane is my favorite restaurant in Venice, great that you managed to find it and dine there.
Interesting about your hotel on Santa Maria Formosa. I have passed it dozens of times and was curious about it, having never heard anything about it. Such a good location even with it's drawbacks.
Glad you enjoyed your time in Italy and that the Italy Forum was a good resource.

PWMTrav

Del Fagioli is one of my favorites nowadays. It didn't hurt that we airbnb'ed right up the street!

ckendall

I've never been to Trippa and now will have to try it; thanks for the post!

Antonio8069

I discovered this WEB site on another thread. It contains very useful information on hotels & transportation options in Venice:
http://europeforvisitors.com/venice/...port_buses.htm

gary_nj

Sorry for a bit of a thread hijack, but after a search, this seemed like the best place to ask a follow-up question.

I am going to Milan for three nights next week (June 7-10) and air conditioning is important to me. I don't really need a fancy hotel and the location is not all that important. Many of the reviews that I read about hotels indicate that even if the hotel says they have air conditioning, it might be turned off, or may not be very efficient.

Does anyone have any insights into something like a three-star hotel (maybe 150 Euros per night?) that might have strong air conditioning? Thank you!

Perche

I won't recommend a specific hotel, but I have a few comments. Milan is hot in the summer. I have friends from Cuba, and from Dallas, TX who couldn't handle the heat in the summer for a few days in Milan. June will be hot, but it's still not that hot.

3-star hotel doesn't mean anything. In the USA stars refer to the quality and price. In Italy, how many stars has very little to do with quality. You get points for having an elevator. You get points for air-conditioning, etc. some of the finest (and most expensive) hotels in Italy are only 3 stars because they are only 1-2 stories and don't need an elevator, and they are on the water where there is always a cool, delicious sea breeze and people prefer to keep the windows open, so there is no air conditioner. I'm thinking of some of the best hotels on the Amalfi Coast here.

I don't think you are going to find a place for $150, almost regardless of stars.

It isn't true that some places advertise that they have air-conditioning, and then they don't. I was in a hotel in San Francisco last night, even though I live just on the other side of the Golden Gate Bridge (I had an early flight today and needed to be closer to the airport). When I got to the room the air conditioner was on, even though you needed a sweater outside. That's against the law in Italy.

Energy is very expensive. Just think, they pay about the same for a quart of gas as we pay for a gallon. It's the same with heating and cooling a hotel room or a home. Because of the need to conserve the use of fuel there are laws that determine when in the year it is legal to start turning on the air conditioner, and dates after which it is illegal to turn the air conditioner on.

I'm not that familiar with them, because they are regional. There are some places where it's illegal to turn on the air conditioner in September, others where you can keep it on until the end of September. In the places where you can't turn it on after the beginning of September, because weather is unpredictable sometimes it's still very hot, and you have to put up with it.

I think when you read about posts from people complaining that hotels in Italy advertise that they have air conditioning but don't really have, it is from them being there when it was against the law to turn it on.

I don't know when the start of, "you can turn on the air conditioner" is in Milan, but I suspect in June you'll be OK.

ckendall

[as noted below this was a link relating to a different issue; Perche is correct about the law saying that 26C (or around 79F) is the minimum legal temperature with variations permitted of 2 degrees C (to 75F). But the bit below remains true in my personal experience.]

I do not know hotels well in your price range, but I have been able to use climate controls in some of the Starwood hotels in Milan year round (there is a thermostat in the room and you set the temperature you want). I would look to chain hotels as they are more likely to be designed for travellers like you who expect climate control.

Perche

You're linking to a website that gives condo owners the rules on how to install, secure, and use their air conditioning units.

The general law for energy use is here: http://www.energia.provincia.tn.it/b...%2074-2013.pdf

1. During the heating in the winter the temperature of the air in every building must not exceed:
a) 18C (64.4F) for industrial buildings, small shops and similar places. b) 20C (68F) C for all other buildings.

2. "When using air conditioning during the summer the temperature of each unit in a building must not be less than 26C (78.8F) for all buildings."

3. The maintenance of air temperature within these limits is for the intention of not wasting energy.

4. Hospital buildings, clinics, and the like, including places treating minors and the elderly, or to treat addicts, limited to the places where they receive treatment and stay, are exempt from these limits. For buildings with a pool, sauna and the like, and international diplomatic organizations not located in a condominium, local authorities can grant exemptions to articles 1 and 2. (I seen no exemption for hotels in the law).

5. For industrial buildings, small business, and the like, local communities can modify the limits of 1 and 2 if one of the following conditions are met:
a) technological needs and production require temperatures different from the limits.
b) the thermal energy used for air conditioning in the summer and winter come from a source that can not be used for any other purpose."

Other areas of the law provides zones of the country, which are regions:
2. Heating in the winter is under the following limits relative to the period of the year and the number of hours in a day you can use them.

a) Zona A: Zone A: 6 hours per day from December 1st to March 15th"
b) Zone B: 8 hours per day from December 1st to March 31."
c) Zone C: 10 hours per day from November 15 to March 31
d) Zone D: 12 hours per per day from November from November 1t to April 15th
e) Zone E: 14 hours a day from 15th of October to April 15
f) Zone F: no limitations.

It then gives some exceptions to the above, like hospitals, maternity clinics, kindergartens, buildings with a pool or sauna, etc.

Then goes on to say;
At every building with more than one occupied unit or similar building the owner or administer has to post a table with the following:
a) The annual period governing when the where the air conditioning heating unit can be used in that Zone, and the hours of the day the owner has chosen to use it.

It then explains that these are minimum regulations for the country. Local authorities can modify them, and some do not permit air conditioning before May 1st, after September 30, etc.. While national regulations don't give hours of the day when air conditioners cannot be used, as it does for how many hours and what time of the year you can use heaters, since you are not allowed to cool a room down to below 79F in all buildings except certain exceptions like hospitals, kindergartens, etc, if the temperature in the room is 80-81F the owner will not turn on the air conditioning because in a few minutes they would be breaking the law. The fines are very large. In other words, you can't walk into the hotel and say, "I'm hot, I'm turning the thermostat down to 68F."

For these reasons, during some periods of the year, in certain parts of Italy, you're just going to be hot, depending on the national regulations, and the additional of local regulations that can make them even more stringent. This is partly the reason why almost all of Italy goes on vacation to either the mountains or to the beach in August, and Italy mostly closes down. It's just too hot, and you're limited in what you can do about it.

gary_nj

Thanks very much!!!

mkjr

just email the hotel and confirm. each hotel i stayed in in Rome, Florence and Venice were happy to confirm their AC was on and that my room would be able to control the temperature directly in the room. this was on May 6-19. the room in venice had two units for the triple room.

gary_nj

Thanks... I called and spoke with a manager at the hotel this morning, and I was assured that the A/C was on. Thanks for all the helpful advice.

Perche

My response was really so you don't wind up getting disappointed. You cited reviews where a hotel said it "had air conditioning, but then they wouldn't turn it on or it was inefficient." There is an under-current that the people are being dishonest, whether it's the cab driver, the hotelier, etc. it isn't true. I responded to let you know that they are operating under regulations.

If you call them in mid-June and ask, "is the air conditioner turned on?" The answer in mid-June is, "of course." It's hot enough for them to turn it on at least some time.

You should know that to a large extent, thermostats in the USA don't really work the way you think. It's like the buttons that people press in the elevator to close the door sooner, sometimes pressing them 3-4 times when the doors won't close. Those buttons only work when a fireman has a key and is controlling the elevator. People still press them.

It's like when you want to cross the street and you want the light to change, there's often a box at the corner with a button for the pedestrian to push to change the light. People get impatient at them and press the button 3-4 times when the light doesn't change, as in the elevator.

The control buttons for pedestrians on sidewalks at stoplights were deactivated many years ago just about everywhere. Pedestrians would press them then step out into traffic and get run over by a bus. They were also too expensive to maintain.

The Wall Street Journal did an expose' on hotel thermostats in the USA and interviewed the head of the Hilton chain and others He said something like we are in the post-thermostat era. They have motion detectors to raise the heat or chill the room when you leave, come back, sleep, wake, etc, regardless of the thermostat setting you select.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dig...ts-rigged/amp/

"The Points Guy," a very popular travel blogger wrote about it too, as have many others. He even provides a work-around trick that sometimes allows you to take control of the hotel thermostat away from the front desk.
https://thepointsguy.com/2017/02/tip...el-thermostat/

I've checked out of a hotel in Milan and one in Naples, major hotels where, "the air-conditioning was on," because they felt like a sauna. I'd go to the front desk and complain in the middle of the night. The guy would go into a room and come out and say he turned it up. I'd feel cool air for ten minutes, until he thought I was asleep, then it was a sauna again.

If you have less control than you think in a hotel in the USA, don't be surprised if you experience trouble in Italy, where the cost of energy is so much higher, and the economy is struggling. I just wanted to make sure you had realistic expectations.

The LA Times wrote about it
https://www.google.com/amp/www.latim...story,amp.html

As have others.
The temperature in your hotel room may be rigged.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.new...a7244a36737b73

In Italy, given the regulations, this is the norm, not the exception. I've been in some hotels where temperature control felt great, and in others where I wake up every few hours in a sweat, or cold. Just like in the USA. Except in Italy, given the price of fuel, plus the regulation that you cannot allow the air conditioner to heat the room below 79F, your reality check will be more common.

Certainly, the hotel you called said the air conditioning is on in June. All hotels are permitted to have their air conditioner on in June. I'm just saying, be flexible in your expectations when you travel to Italy concerning air conditioning.