What To Do If You Get Sick in Italy
Jan 13, 2017, 3:18 am
#31
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Ahh.. so it's the same "fake" drug issue everywhere - if you want to read a real horror story look up Ranbaxy - they are still allowed to sell generics in the US despite a long series of falsifying data, etc. and the issue of the drug not being in the actual meds, etc. There's a (long) article including a large fine by the FDA (5 mil I think) after investigation BUT they were still given new approvals to manufacture generics that are still sold in the US. I specifically will not let my patients take anything manufactured by them - but I'm sure there are other companies that I don't know about.
Anyway... I think we all could take a lesson from the Japanese concept of protecting others - something I think about often when I see someone at work coughing, etc and not wanting to "take a sick day"....
Best wishes for a quick recovery - the flu (even when not deadly) is no fun.
Anyway... I think we all could take a lesson from the Japanese concept of protecting others - something I think about often when I see someone at work coughing, etc and not wanting to "take a sick day"....
Best wishes for a quick recovery - the flu (even when not deadly) is no fun.
Jan 16, 2017, 11:03 pm
#32
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Still battling the flu, with headache and neck ache from coughing so much. They didn't have right dose of Tamflu in Lecce, so I had to take three at a time and ran out. I figured not a problem, I'll buy more in Naples. Well, there's no Tamiflu in Naples, Italy's third largest city. For those who say they never get the flu shot, and nothing serious has happened before, remember, you'll be traveling in a different country, where it's not unusual for the cooks and waitress to cough or blow there noise while making your food. You can't really tell who has the flu because someone is coughing, as most people smoke, so almost everybody is coughing. For those who have the barrier of thinking they should see a doctor to get a flu shot, as I mentioned, it's an over the counter. medicine in the USA You just walk into the pharmacist and get it. It's that way here too. Most pharmacies have this sign in the window, which means "Influenza is in the air, come inside and get your flu shot." No prescription necessary.
Jan 16, 2017, 11:11 pm
#33
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Sorry you're still sick but I disagree with
" remember, you'll be traveling in a different country, where it's not unusual for the cooks and waitress to cough or blow there noise while making your food." - think this happens in the US (and many other countries) all the time
Even if flu isn't rampant lots of other viruses (colds -URI upper respiratory infections, etc.) are spread this way (well maybe except in Japan where people have the good sense to protect others if they are sick) - although I agree that more virulent infections require most caution.
" remember, you'll be traveling in a different country, where it's not unusual for the cooks and waitress to cough or blow there noise while making your food." - think this happens in the US (and many other countries) all the time
Even if flu isn't rampant lots of other viruses (colds -URI upper respiratory infections, etc.) are spread this way (well maybe except in Japan where people have the good sense to protect others if they are sick) - although I agree that more virulent infections require most caution.
Jan 16, 2017, 11:29 pm
#34
Moderator: Delta SkyMiles, Luxury Hotels, TravelBuzz! and Italy
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Posts: 26,543
Still battling the flu, with headache and neck ache from coughing so much. They didn't have right dose of Tamflu in Lecce, so I had to take three at a time and ran out. I figured not a problem, I'll buy more in Naples. Well, there's no Tamiflu in Naples, Italy's third largest city. For those who say they never get the flu shot, and nothing serious has happened before, remember, you'll be traveling in a different country, where it's not unusual for the cooks and waitress to cough or blow there noise while making your food. You can't really tell who has the flu because someone is coughing, as most people smoke, so almost everybody is coughing. For those who have the barrier of thinking they should see a doctor to get a flu shot, as I mentioned, it's an over the counter. medicine in the USA You just walk into the pharmacist and get it. It's that way here too. Most pharmacies have this sign in the window, which means "Influenza is in the air, come inside and get your flu shot." No prescription necessary.
Jan 18, 2017, 12:24 pm
#35
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Just to beat a dead horse estnet, I suggest that people look at the sign posted below.
It's possible to have a completely curated experience in Italy to make you feel like you never left home. Then, there is traveling in Italy.
In Naples today, slowly recovering from the flu which is epidemic here, I bring this up because it has been said on this thread by worldlux that he went for years in the USA without the flu vaccine and nothing ever happened, and suggested that therefore the vaccine wasn't necessary for travel to Italy. You suggested that the same exposures happen in the USA. My response has been that Italy is a different country than the USA.
I went to a bar this morning for coffee, and then went to the bathroom. The sign below was posted just above the toilet bowl. Can you imagine this sign posted in a bar in the USA without the Department of Health closing it down?
Translated it means, "Do it into the center of the toilet bowl because the same hands I will be using to clean the toilet bowl will be the same hands I will use to make your coffee."
It's possible to have a completely curated experience in Italy to make you feel like you never left home. Then, there is traveling in Italy.
In Naples today, slowly recovering from the flu which is epidemic here, I bring this up because it has been said on this thread by worldlux that he went for years in the USA without the flu vaccine and nothing ever happened, and suggested that therefore the vaccine wasn't necessary for travel to Italy. You suggested that the same exposures happen in the USA. My response has been that Italy is a different country than the USA.
I went to a bar this morning for coffee, and then went to the bathroom. The sign below was posted just above the toilet bowl. Can you imagine this sign posted in a bar in the USA without the Department of Health closing it down?
Translated it means, "Do it into the center of the toilet bowl because the same hands I will be using to clean the toilet bowl will be the same hands I will use to make your coffee."
Last edited by Perche; Jan 18, 2017 at 12:48 pm
Jan 19, 2017, 7:14 am
#39
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Sorry you're still sick but I disagree with
" remember, you'll be traveling in a different country, where it's not unusual for the cooks and waitress to cough or blow there noise while making your food." - think this happens in the US (and many other countries) all the time
Even if flu isn't rampant lots of other viruses (colds -URI upper respiratory infections, etc.) are spread this way (well maybe except in Japan where people have the good sense to protect others if they are sick) - although I agree that more virulent infections require most caution.
" remember, you'll be traveling in a different country, where it's not unusual for the cooks and waitress to cough or blow there noise while making your food." - think this happens in the US (and many other countries) all the time
Even if flu isn't rampant lots of other viruses (colds -URI upper respiratory infections, etc.) are spread this way (well maybe except in Japan where people have the good sense to protect others if they are sick) - although I agree that more virulent infections require most caution.
I just walked into a bar and ordered a panino. The guy grabbed it out of the counter with with his right hand and put it in the heater. In his left hand was a pizza that he was eating. He kept eating the pizza, then after a few minutes he opened up grill and removed my panino with one hand, while still munching on the pizza in his other hand. During the time that I was eating my panino he finally finished eating his pizza, wiped his mouth off with the back of his hand, and kept on serving people. Even though respiratory viruses are transmitted by contact of one person's mucous membranes to another in both Italy and in the USA, the risks are not the same.
Also, the risks of catching a virus does not just depend on how it is transmitted from one person to another, but also on the percent of people in the community that take the vaccine.
Consider a virus that remains transmissible outside of a person's body for one hour before the it dies off. There is a school of 1,000 students where 95% are vaccinated for measles, leaving 50 potential carriers. There is a student with an immune disease who cannot get the vaccine. He/she interacts with 20 students per day. The chance of him or her coming into contact with one of the 50 non-vaccinated students on any given day is statistically quite low because 5% of 20 students is only one per day. The chance of that one person per day having the disease and transferring the live virus via a door knob, etc, within one hour, is pretty low.
However, If only 25% of the students took the measles vaccine, our hypothetical student with an auto-immune disease would mathematically interact with 15 potential carriers per day, and could probably count on getting the measles.
It's called, "herd immunity." The more people who get a vaccine, the less likely the exposure, and the more that unvaccinated people are protected.
Yes, I agree that cooks rub their nose and cough into their hands in both the USA and in Italy, and upper respiratory diseases are transmitted from one person to another by the same mechanism. However, in the USA a heck of a lot of people get the flu vaccine. Unfortunately, not enough to confer herd immunity, but in Italy very few people get vaccinated. You are in constant contact with potential carriers, and so the chances of getting it here are very different from most regions in the USA.
In fact, they guy who was eating a pizza with one hand while making my panino with the other, is now standing half-way in and half-way out the front door, smoking a cigarette. Mostly in. I'll bet my house he won't wash his hands before he goes back to making panini. And I'm in one of the high end neighborhoods.
It's just not the same in the two countries.
Jan 19, 2017, 8:45 am
#40
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Never said it was the same, and sure the probability may be higher in Italy (and a few other countries) but I was just pointing out that bad things can happen anywhere - and I am familiar with herd immunity too.
I don't mean to detract from the message that getting the flu vaccine may be more urgent if traveling to Italy - but I think it is important period. I'd hate for people to think it is only urgent if traveling to Italy - the flu appears to be getting worse in the SF bay area and it can happen anywhere so as you rightly pointed out prevention is important and waiting until you "need" it is useless as it takes time for the immune system to produce the antibodies!
I don't mean to detract from the message that getting the flu vaccine may be more urgent if traveling to Italy - but I think it is important period. I'd hate for people to think it is only urgent if traveling to Italy - the flu appears to be getting worse in the SF bay area and it can happen anywhere so as you rightly pointed out prevention is important and waiting until you "need" it is useless as it takes time for the immune system to produce the antibodies!
It's true that most upper respiratory viral infections are transferred the same way, and servers blow their nose and rub their mouth in the USA too. But I still hold that exposure and risks are different in Italy.
I just walked into a bar and ordered a panino. The guy grabbed it out of the counter with with his right hand and put it in the heater. In his left hand was a pizza that he was eating. He kept eating the pizza, then after a few minutes he opened up grill and removed my panino with one hand, while still munching on the pizza in his other hand. During the time that I was eating my panino he finally finished eating his pizza, wiped his mouth off with the back of his hand, and kept on serving people. Even though respiratory viruses are transmitted by contact of one person's mucous membranes to another in both Italy and in the USA, the risks are not the same.
Also, the risks of catching a virus does not just depend on how it is transmitted from one person to another, but also on the percent of people in the community that take the vaccine.
Consider a virus that remains transmissible outside of a person's body for one hour before the it dies off. There is a school of 1,000 students where 95% are vaccinated for measles, leaving 50 potential carriers. There is a student with an immune disease who cannot get the vaccine. He/she interacts with 20 students per day. The chance of him or her coming into contact with one of the 50 non-vaccinated students on any given day is statistically quite low because 5% of 20 students is only one per day. The chance of that one person per day having the disease and transferring the live virus via a door knob, etc, within one hour, is pretty low.
However, If only 25% of the students took the measles vaccine, our hypothetical student with an auto-immune disease would mathematically interact with 15 potential carriers per day, and could probably count on getting the measles.
It's called, "herd immunity." The more people who get a vaccine, the less likely the exposure, and the more that unvaccinated people are protected.
Yes, I agree that cooks rub their nose and cough into their hands in both the USA and in Italy, and upper respiratory diseases are transmitted from one person to another by the same mechanism. However, in the USA a heck of a lot of people get the flu vaccine. Unfortunately, not enough to confer herd immunity, but in Italy very few people get vaccinated. You are in constant contact with potential carriers, and so the chances of getting it here are very different from most regions in the USA.
In fact, they guy who was eating a pizza with one hand while making my panino with the other, is now standing half-way in and half-way out the front door, smoking a cigarette. Mostly in. I'll bet my house he won't wash his hands before he goes back to making panini. And I'm in one of the high end neighborhoods.
It's just not the same in the two countries.
I just walked into a bar and ordered a panino. The guy grabbed it out of the counter with with his right hand and put it in the heater. In his left hand was a pizza that he was eating. He kept eating the pizza, then after a few minutes he opened up grill and removed my panino with one hand, while still munching on the pizza in his other hand. During the time that I was eating my panino he finally finished eating his pizza, wiped his mouth off with the back of his hand, and kept on serving people. Even though respiratory viruses are transmitted by contact of one person's mucous membranes to another in both Italy and in the USA, the risks are not the same.
Also, the risks of catching a virus does not just depend on how it is transmitted from one person to another, but also on the percent of people in the community that take the vaccine.
Consider a virus that remains transmissible outside of a person's body for one hour before the it dies off. There is a school of 1,000 students where 95% are vaccinated for measles, leaving 50 potential carriers. There is a student with an immune disease who cannot get the vaccine. He/she interacts with 20 students per day. The chance of him or her coming into contact with one of the 50 non-vaccinated students on any given day is statistically quite low because 5% of 20 students is only one per day. The chance of that one person per day having the disease and transferring the live virus via a door knob, etc, within one hour, is pretty low.
However, If only 25% of the students took the measles vaccine, our hypothetical student with an auto-immune disease would mathematically interact with 15 potential carriers per day, and could probably count on getting the measles.
It's called, "herd immunity." The more people who get a vaccine, the less likely the exposure, and the more that unvaccinated people are protected.
Yes, I agree that cooks rub their nose and cough into their hands in both the USA and in Italy, and upper respiratory diseases are transmitted from one person to another by the same mechanism. However, in the USA a heck of a lot of people get the flu vaccine. Unfortunately, not enough to confer herd immunity, but in Italy very few people get vaccinated. You are in constant contact with potential carriers, and so the chances of getting it here are very different from most regions in the USA.
In fact, they guy who was eating a pizza with one hand while making my panino with the other, is now standing half-way in and half-way out the front door, smoking a cigarette. Mostly in. I'll bet my house he won't wash his hands before he goes back to making panini. And I'm in one of the high end neighborhoods.
It's just not the same in the two countries.
Jan 19, 2017, 9:09 am
#41
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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Never said it was the same, and sure the probability may be higher in Italy (and a few other countries) but I was just pointing out that bad things can happen anywhere - and I am familiar with herd immunity too.
I don't mean to detract from the message that getting the flu vaccine may be more urgent if traveling to Italy - but I think it is important period. I'd hate for people to think it is only urgent if traveling to Italy - the flu appears to be getting worse in the SF bay area and it can happen anywhere so as you rightly pointed out prevention is important and waiting until you "need" it is useless as it takes time for the immune system to produce the antibodies!
I don't mean to detract from the message that getting the flu vaccine may be more urgent if traveling to Italy - but I think it is important period. I'd hate for people to think it is only urgent if traveling to Italy - the flu appears to be getting worse in the SF bay area and it can happen anywhere so as you rightly pointed out prevention is important and waiting until you "need" it is useless as it takes time for the immune system to produce the antibodies!
I think you and others agree, there's not that much downside to going to the pharmacy and getting a basically over-the-counter flu shot to protect your investment in a vacation. I kept putting it off even though I knew better, and now I'm paying the price. Would that we all follow our own advice!
Jan 19, 2017, 10:29 am
#42
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Heraklion, Greece
Posts: 7,565
The behaviour of Italian baristi concerning avoidance of disease transmission leads to a phenomenon called mithridatism in its wider sense: one additional reason why travellers (and not only to Italy 
) should get vaccinated.
) should get vaccinated.
Mar 30, 2017, 10:33 pm
#43
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,203
Few Points
- Extremely useful posts. Thanks Perche.
- One cannot get flu by walking in -5C weather in T-shirt. There are no virus in cold air.
(But if you are already infected, it does get worse for you)
Willaim Harrisson certainly didnt die because he spoke too long in drizzle on cold day.
- US flu vaccine is formulated based on "guessed" flu virus variation for the upcoming year. So even in US, it can fail to protect you. Chances of running into other variations are far greater when travelling to other countries. This, of course, does not mean that you should not take vaccine. You should always get vaccinated unless you have other complications.
- I wonder if getting another flu shot in March after getting one in October helps with any April/May travel to Europe? (Any thoughts, anyone?)
- Massaging of clinical data is pharma industry is as common as traffic jam in NYC. Big US Pharma with huge political contributions and lobbying army, usually work the system their way. Ranbaxy's medicines are used all over the world in countries with combined population of more than 2 billion. They are as good as Big Pharma (No need to believe fake news by big pharma who got scared by them) The so-called "Indian" drugs are made in India by companies with names like Glaxo, Pfizer, Roche. There is no reason to believe that they invent new manufacturing process to make different medicine. They certainly price them differently. Azithromycin made by Pfizer can be bought for 30 cents a strip. I paid 15 USD copay last Xmas at DR in NYC for that.
- Jetlag, anxiety in foreign land, exposure to different food and more importantly exposure to variant of bugs that your body is not used to, etc. can contribute to getting sick while on travel. Traveling with small medicine pouch is more critical than carrying on your own favorite toileteries.
- Extremely useful posts. Thanks Perche.
- One cannot get flu by walking in -5C weather in T-shirt. There are no virus in cold air.
(But if you are already infected, it does get worse for you)
Willaim Harrisson certainly didnt die because he spoke too long in drizzle on cold day.
- US flu vaccine is formulated based on "guessed" flu virus variation for the upcoming year. So even in US, it can fail to protect you. Chances of running into other variations are far greater when travelling to other countries. This, of course, does not mean that you should not take vaccine. You should always get vaccinated unless you have other complications.
- I wonder if getting another flu shot in March after getting one in October helps with any April/May travel to Europe? (Any thoughts, anyone?)
- Massaging of clinical data is pharma industry is as common as traffic jam in NYC. Big US Pharma with huge political contributions and lobbying army, usually work the system their way. Ranbaxy's medicines are used all over the world in countries with combined population of more than 2 billion. They are as good as Big Pharma (No need to believe fake news by big pharma who got scared by them) The so-called "Indian" drugs are made in India by companies with names like Glaxo, Pfizer, Roche. There is no reason to believe that they invent new manufacturing process to make different medicine. They certainly price them differently. Azithromycin made by Pfizer can be bought for 30 cents a strip. I paid 15 USD copay last Xmas at DR in NYC for that.
- Jetlag, anxiety in foreign land, exposure to different food and more importantly exposure to variant of bugs that your body is not used to, etc. can contribute to getting sick while on travel. Traveling with small medicine pouch is more critical than carrying on your own favorite toileteries.
Last edited by desi; Mar 30, 2017 at 10:38 pm
Mar 30, 2017, 11:02 pm
#44
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: bay area, ca
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Posts: 4,833
OT
Ranbaxy
Generic Drug Manufacturer Ranbaxy Pleads Guilty and Agrees to Pay $500 Million to Resolve False Claims Allegations, cGMP Violations and False Statements to the FDA
http://fortune.com/2013/05/15/dirty-medicine/
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/14/bu...drug-case.html
Decide for yourself, as for me I won't allow my patients to take meds manufactured by this company.
Ranbaxy
Generic Drug Manufacturer Ranbaxy Pleads Guilty and Agrees to Pay $500 Million to Resolve False Claims Allegations, cGMP Violations and False Statements to the FDA
http://fortune.com/2013/05/15/dirty-medicine/
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/14/bu...drug-case.html
Decide for yourself, as for me I won't allow my patients to take meds manufactured by this company.
Last edited by estnet; Mar 30, 2017 at 11:16 pm
Mar 30, 2017, 11:48 pm
#45
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,203
OT, of course.
Over last 10 years, each of Big Pharma has paid fines much more than the amount mentioned here.
"I wont allow" is the atitude that keeps healthcare cost so tragically high in USA.
As mentioned above, drugs from Ranbaxy (and similar companies), are sold to 2 billion plus population for many decades with no major issues. All your sited links do, is to underscore how lobbying by big corporations works against common people in US (Internet Privacy protection removal just another example)
Internet item is OT. "I wont allow" attitude costing billions of dollars without much significant benefit is line with Perche's initial posts on this thread.
Over last 10 years, each of Big Pharma has paid fines much more than the amount mentioned here.
"I wont allow" is the atitude that keeps healthcare cost so tragically high in USA.
As mentioned above, drugs from Ranbaxy (and similar companies), are sold to 2 billion plus population for many decades with no major issues. All your sited links do, is to underscore how lobbying by big corporations works against common people in US (Internet Privacy protection removal just another example)
Internet item is OT. "I wont allow" attitude costing billions of dollars without much significant benefit is line with Perche's initial posts on this thread.