2 weeks in Italy
Sep 24, 2016, 1:51 am
#16
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Heraklion, Greece
Posts: 7,564
Rome: Termini (main station) or Tiburtina, depending on where you live (most probably Termini will be more convenient for a visitor to Rome).
Firenze: Santa Maria Novella (main station) or Campo di Marte. Like in Rome, the main station will most probably be the one you should choose.
Venice: S. Lucia (end station)
As for the trains, a "Freccia" should be the #1 choice.
Firenze: Santa Maria Novella (main station) or Campo di Marte. Like in Rome, the main station will most probably be the one you should choose.
Venice: S. Lucia (end station)
As for the trains, a "Freccia" should be the #1 choice.
Sep 24, 2016, 3:43 am
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: CRK MNL
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Posts: 1,280
Thanks KLouis.
By the way, my dates of travel will be 2 weeks before Easter, commencing on Easter Saturday. How's the tourist crowd during Easter week? How about attractions and shops? Will the be closed during Holy Friday?
By the way, my dates of travel will be 2 weeks before Easter, commencing on Easter Saturday. How's the tourist crowd during Easter week? How about attractions and shops? Will the be closed during Holy Friday?
Sep 24, 2016, 12:59 pm
#18
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SEA
Posts: 3,952
Rome will have crowds for Easter. Some stores and restaurants will close on Good Friday, given the number of Catholics in the area, but many will stay open given the number of tourists in the area.
Your biggest problem isn't going to be getting your luggage in and out of the stations if you're able-bodied. Worst case, carry one up the steps, then go get the other, repeat. We're not talking DC metro style escalators down 100 feet into a tunnel. Termini and Santa Maria Novella both have a few steps going in. It's really unlikely that someone is going to rip you off while you do this, because again, short distances. Do the same when you board/disembark the train. Occasionally someone might help you but don't count on it.
Your biggest problem will be Venezia Santa Lucia to your hotel. It has more steps, but again, just bring one bag at a time. The problem is going to be getting to your apartment/hotel, so no cabs. Remember that there aren't cars in Venice, so you're going to have to roll that luggage to your destination. You may want to spring for a water taxi from the station to your hotel, if you're booking one that has a canal doc (many of them do). Venice also has bridges to cross here and there.
If you have lots of stuff, devise a plan to make it so you can roll it comfortably and maneuver stairs if you need to. If the 3rd bag is just to hold the contents of shopping trips, you could say screw it and just ship stuff home as you buy it. Or just take your time moving your luggage. I get that there will be other people around, but whatever, they can walk around you. You won't be the only person lugging bags for sure.
Your biggest problem isn't going to be getting your luggage in and out of the stations if you're able-bodied. Worst case, carry one up the steps, then go get the other, repeat. We're not talking DC metro style escalators down 100 feet into a tunnel. Termini and Santa Maria Novella both have a few steps going in. It's really unlikely that someone is going to rip you off while you do this, because again, short distances. Do the same when you board/disembark the train. Occasionally someone might help you but don't count on it.
Your biggest problem will be Venezia Santa Lucia to your hotel. It has more steps, but again, just bring one bag at a time. The problem is going to be getting to your apartment/hotel, so no cabs. Remember that there aren't cars in Venice, so you're going to have to roll that luggage to your destination. You may want to spring for a water taxi from the station to your hotel, if you're booking one that has a canal doc (many of them do). Venice also has bridges to cross here and there.
If you have lots of stuff, devise a plan to make it so you can roll it comfortably and maneuver stairs if you need to. If the 3rd bag is just to hold the contents of shopping trips, you could say screw it and just ship stuff home as you buy it. Or just take your time moving your luggage. I get that there will be other people around, but whatever, they can walk around you. You won't be the only person lugging bags for sure.
Sep 24, 2016, 9:51 pm
#19
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Understanding your issue with bags, I'm still going to recommend a train. As others have mentioned, the central portions of any Italian city are generally unfriendly to cars--naturally so, since they all developed well before the advent of the internal combustion engine.
I couldn't imagine a more convenient method of transportation between cities than the Freecia between Rome and Florence. The train is hitting 150-160 mph. It's cool to look out the window and see vehicles moving on the high-speed roads that you are leaving in the dust because you're moving so fast. Take cabs to and from the train stations, which are located about as centrally as you could hope.
Rome has tons to see--think of New York City and the five boroughs for a comparison--while Florence has less (but lots) but all in a fairly confined area. It's not impossible to reach almost 90% of the stuff you'd want to do in Florence by walking. In my three trips to Italy, I've found Florence more in rhythm with my travel style, but I totally see the value to an extensive visit to Rome.
Five days in Rome, four in Florence, three in Venice, two in Milan sounds about right. But don't try to cram in too much. You may very well find that two hours in a cafe fronting a plaza having a long lunch one of the highlights of your trip. Italy is best savored not gulped.
I couldn't imagine a more convenient method of transportation between cities than the Freecia between Rome and Florence. The train is hitting 150-160 mph. It's cool to look out the window and see vehicles moving on the high-speed roads that you are leaving in the dust because you're moving so fast. Take cabs to and from the train stations, which are located about as centrally as you could hope.
Rome has tons to see--think of New York City and the five boroughs for a comparison--while Florence has less (but lots) but all in a fairly confined area. It's not impossible to reach almost 90% of the stuff you'd want to do in Florence by walking. In my three trips to Italy, I've found Florence more in rhythm with my travel style, but I totally see the value to an extensive visit to Rome.
Five days in Rome, four in Florence, three in Venice, two in Milan sounds about right. But don't try to cram in too much. You may very well find that two hours in a cafe fronting a plaza having a long lunch one of the highlights of your trip. Italy is best savored not gulped.
Sep 25, 2016, 9:59 am
#20
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Water taxis are expensive in Venice, but I couldn't imagine taking a vaparetto with large bags. So, as was said, plan on springing for a water taxi to and from your hotel.
Sep 25, 2016, 10:56 am
#21
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SEA
Posts: 3,952
I don't own a luggage cart of any kind, but there's always something like this:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FLMNGZW
That might help.
By the way, I hope you're not getting too concerned here. These aren't insurmountable challenges. It's better that you're thinking about it and planning for it now, rather than getting to baggage claim in Italy and realizing it's more than you can pull. Also, even with 3 bags, there are 2 of you, right? Or will you be lugging all 3?
We have a 4 year old, and she's gone to Italy at least once a year now. When she was really little, I definitely had to pull two big bags plus a car seat in a roller bag while my wife had our daughter in the stroller plus all of the smaller carry on stuff that didn't fit on the luggage handles. I won't say I recall that fondly, but it was very possible. Having 4 wheeled spinner bags helped a bit in this case, at least until we exited the airports/stations and hit the cobblestones.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FLMNGZW
That might help.
By the way, I hope you're not getting too concerned here. These aren't insurmountable challenges. It's better that you're thinking about it and planning for it now, rather than getting to baggage claim in Italy and realizing it's more than you can pull. Also, even with 3 bags, there are 2 of you, right? Or will you be lugging all 3?
We have a 4 year old, and she's gone to Italy at least once a year now. When she was really little, I definitely had to pull two big bags plus a car seat in a roller bag while my wife had our daughter in the stroller plus all of the smaller carry on stuff that didn't fit on the luggage handles. I won't say I recall that fondly, but it was very possible. Having 4 wheeled spinner bags helped a bit in this case, at least until we exited the airports/stations and hit the cobblestones.
Sep 25, 2016, 12:09 pm
#22
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SFO, VCE
Programs: AA EXP >4 MM, Lifetime Plat
Posts: 2,881
You can definitely shop in Rome, Florence, and Venice. There's no need to waste two precious in Milan to shop when you can find the same stores in these three cities. Milan is the fashion capital so there are more fashion shows, and you might find the product that a model wore down a runway at a show in Milan a few weeks before you can get it in Rome, and a few months before you can get it in Florence or Venice, but spending two days in Milan just to shop is not the best way to spend an Italian vacation. Also, a side trip to Pisa just to see the Leaning Tower is another waste of a day.
Sep 25, 2016, 12:30 pm
#23
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SEA
Posts: 3,952
You can definitely shop in Rome, Florence, and Venice. There's no need to waste two precious in Milan to shop when you can find the same stores in these three cities. Milan is the fashion capital so there are more fashion shows, and you might find the product that a model wore down a runway at a show in Milan a few weeks before you can get it in Rome, and a few months before you can get it in Florence or Venice, but spending two days in Milan just to shop is not the best way to spend an Italian vacation. Also, a side trip to Pisa just to see the Leaning Tower is another waste of a day.
Sep 25, 2016, 12:49 pm
#24
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 17,403
Your biggest problem will be Venezia Santa Lucia to your hotel. It has more steps, but again, just bring one bag at a time. The problem is going to be getting to your apartment/hotel, so no cabs. Remember that there aren't cars in Venice, so you're going to have to roll that luggage to your destination. You may want to spring for a water taxi from the station to your hotel, if you're booking one that has a canal doc (many of them do). Venice also has bridges to cross here and there.
I overlooked this and it's probably the biggest challenge of all. Way more than dealing with the train stations. Every tip on this thread should help you. (Even though I am a huge advocate of packing light,I won't challenge your packing choices. I don't know enough about your circumstance to start advising blindly).
The first time I arrived in Venice - with a single rollaboard - I had booked a hotel extremely close to a vaporetto stop and not requiring going over even one bridge. After I got settled and went out exploring Venice, I came across some hotels I had considered and I mentally congratulated myself, wondering how frazzled I would have been trying to not only find a less accessible hotel but negotiating the crowded alleys Venice calls streets with even one roller bag. (Once you have sorted Venice out after a few visits, this isn't necessary, but still an easy alternative).
So plan and budget for a water taxi - with a lot a luggage, definitely NOT the vaporetto - from Ste. Lucia to your hotel.
Sep 25, 2016, 3:49 pm
#25
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SFO, VCE
Programs: AA EXP >4 MM, Lifetime Plat
Posts: 2,881
So I chose the place just over the Rialto Bridge. To walk from Castello to the Rialto Bridge you have to walk through Piazza San Marco for about 50 yards, then you can walk into the the back alleyways. Unfortunately, last alleyway leads you about 50 yards from the Rialto Bridge. Without tourist season San Marco to Rialto is a 5-7 minute walk. Those two stretches are so lined with tourists that it becomes a half hour walk. Once I reloaded my SIM card, rather than put my self through it again, I took back alleyways on the other side of the canal, and crossed back over the Accademia Bridge, and into the back streets until I got back to Castello.
Other than the tourist areas, there are no crowds. These, "crowded alleys that Venice calls streets," were made about 1,400 years before the development of the internal combustion engine. Venice was built for boats. I boated all over the back canals today, and just saw the occasional gondola, and boats making deliveries, or motorboats taking people places.
When onshore, I just stayed away from anything to do with Piazza San Marco or Rialto Bridge, or the train station, and I found the narrow streets of Venice charming and empty. I ate a great pasta with capers, baby tomatoes, sardines, after a scallop and polenta appetizer. The only crowds were a couple of kids playing tag, and kicking around soccer balls, but that's it.
The key to Venice is to get away from the tourist areas. If all I experienced of of Venice was having to walk the tourist shop streets between San Marco and the Rialto Bridge, I'd hate it too. Instead, I kayaked down the Grand Canal today, under the Rialto Bridge to get where I needed to go. And I ate on the street called Via Garibaldi, which had nothing but locals, and is about 12-15 minutes from Piazza San Marco. For some reason, all of the tourists just seem to congregate into the same small place, then complain that Venice is too crowded.
Sep 25, 2016, 7:44 pm
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 17,403
I'm not sure what this means. I'm in Venice now. I had to reload my TIM card, and the only two stores are on on Strada Nuova, and another just over the Rialto Bridge. Nothing could make me go to Strada Nuova. You can't walk. It's packed with tourists this time of year.
So I chose the place just over the Rialto Bridge. To walk from Castello to the Rialto Bridge you have to walk through Piazza San Marco for about 50 yards, then you can walk into the the back alleyways. Unfortunately, last alleyway leads you about 50 yards from the Rialto Bridge. Without tourist season San Marco to Rialto is a 5-7 minute walk. Those two stretches are so lined with tourists that it becomes a half hour walk. Once I reloaded my SIM card, rather than put my self through it again, I took back alleyways on the other side of the canal, and crossed back over the Accademia Bridge, and into the back streets until I got back to Castello.
Other than the tourist areas, there are no crowds. These, "crowded alleys that Venice calls streets," were made about 1,400 years before the development of the internal combustion engine. Venice was built for boats. I boated all over the back canals today, and just saw the occasional gondola, and boats making deliveries, or motorboats taking people places.
When onshore, I just stayed away from anything to do with Piazza San Marco or Rialto Bridge, or the train station, and I found the narrow streets of Venice charming and empty. I ate a great pasta with capers, baby tomatoes, sardines, after a scallop and polenta appetizer. The only crowds were a couple of kids playing tag, and kicking around soccer balls, but that's it.
The key to Venice is to get away from the tourist areas. If all I experienced of of Venice was having to walk the tourist shop streets between San Marco and the Rialto Bridge, I'd hate it too. Instead, I kayaked down the Grand Canal today, under the Rialto Bridge to get where I needed to go. And I ate on the street called Via Garibaldi, which had nothing but locals, and is about 12-15 minutes from Piazza San Marco. For some reason, all of the tourists just seem to congregate into the same small place, then complain that Venice is too crowded.
So I chose the place just over the Rialto Bridge. To walk from Castello to the Rialto Bridge you have to walk through Piazza San Marco for about 50 yards, then you can walk into the the back alleyways. Unfortunately, last alleyway leads you about 50 yards from the Rialto Bridge. Without tourist season San Marco to Rialto is a 5-7 minute walk. Those two stretches are so lined with tourists that it becomes a half hour walk. Once I reloaded my SIM card, rather than put my self through it again, I took back alleyways on the other side of the canal, and crossed back over the Accademia Bridge, and into the back streets until I got back to Castello.
Other than the tourist areas, there are no crowds. These, "crowded alleys that Venice calls streets," were made about 1,400 years before the development of the internal combustion engine. Venice was built for boats. I boated all over the back canals today, and just saw the occasional gondola, and boats making deliveries, or motorboats taking people places.
When onshore, I just stayed away from anything to do with Piazza San Marco or Rialto Bridge, or the train station, and I found the narrow streets of Venice charming and empty. I ate a great pasta with capers, baby tomatoes, sardines, after a scallop and polenta appetizer. The only crowds were a couple of kids playing tag, and kicking around soccer balls, but that's it.
The key to Venice is to get away from the tourist areas. If all I experienced of of Venice was having to walk the tourist shop streets between San Marco and the Rialto Bridge, I'd hate it too. Instead, I kayaked down the Grand Canal today, under the Rialto Bridge to get where I needed to go. And I ate on the street called Via Garibaldi, which had nothing but locals, and is about 12-15 minutes from Piazza San Marco. For some reason, all of the tourists just seem to congregate into the same small place, then complain that Venice is too crowded.
So I believed that the best place to stay was as close as I could afford to the Danielli. Then I chose as I described. The hotel was just down a small calle across from S. Zaccaria C/D and then along a canal (this hotel had a dock, but I wasn't paying for a taxi that trip...well I've never used a taxi in Venice on 6 visits). The other hotels I was "guided" to were in the Rialto Bridge area. Even though it wasn't as crowded as it is now, I was extremely happy I chose the place I did. This I repeat was my first visit. (Three days - just enough to fall in love with the city.)
On that first visit, I walked all over the city and it's pretty obvious that staying away from the San Marco/Rialto area is relatively easy and certainly preferable. I never stayed near them again. I have posted my agreement with you about this on a number of threads.
I'm not certain why you thought my description of the streets as alleys was perjorative. They are in fact my favorite part of Venice. Walking, even wandering, the streets of Venice late at night is incomparable. But to any first time visitor...c'mon, a lot of them are the width of alleys. It's an observation, not a judgment.
Remember, I was addressing a first time visitor with a lot of luggage. I only mentioned my first experience in reference to trying to negotiate Venice with luggage, even one roller, if you've never been before. I haven't any idea where the OP is staying, but no matter where, he needs to consider getting there in Venice.
I'm not sure a kayak would work for him. (A joke - I know you weren't suggesting it)
/post heavily edited due to incomplete initial posting/
Last edited by rickg523; Sep 25, 2016 at 8:04 pm
Sep 25, 2016, 8:01 pm
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: CRK MNL
Programs: CX Gold
Posts: 1,280
Thanks for all the inputs. These will surely make my vacation a worry-free experience.
How's the tourist numbers during my travel period (first 2 weeks of April)? I hope this will be a good time to travel in Italy.
How's the tourist numbers during my travel period (first 2 weeks of April)? I hope this will be a good time to travel in Italy.
Sep 26, 2016, 6:34 am
#28
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SEA
Posts: 3,952
It'll be nice that time of year. The weather is pretty good. There will be tourists, but not the crowds you'll find from June onward. I'm not 100% on this, but April might be a lower season for cruises, which really impact the crowd levels in Venice.
Sep 26, 2016, 8:00 am
#29
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: CRK MNL
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Posts: 1,280
Thanks again. Now that I'm settled with the dates and means of transpo between cities, I would like to ask for hotel and location suggestions.
1st, for Rome.
I am thinking of staying near the Spanish Steps as I think it's walkable to some attractions and near a Metro Station. Also near shopping area for the wife. I have read from some threads that some of the hotels don't have elevators. And I will definitely need an elevator to bring our suitcases up the floors. How will I know if the hotel will have an elevator?
1st, for Rome.
I am thinking of staying near the Spanish Steps as I think it's walkable to some attractions and near a Metro Station. Also near shopping area for the wife. I have read from some threads that some of the hotels don't have elevators. And I will definitely need an elevator to bring our suitcases up the floors. How will I know if the hotel will have an elevator?
Sep 26, 2016, 8:15 am
#30
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SEA
Posts: 3,952
Thanks again. Now that I'm settled with the dates and means of transpo between cities, I would like to ask for hotel and location suggestions.
1st, for Rome.
I am thinking of staying near the Spanish Steps as I think it's walkable to some attractions and near a Metro Station. Also near shopping area for the wife. I have read from some threads that some of the hotels don't have elevators. And I will definitely need an elevator to bring our suitcases up the floors. How will I know if the hotel will have an elevator?
1st, for Rome.
I am thinking of staying near the Spanish Steps as I think it's walkable to some attractions and near a Metro Station. Also near shopping area for the wife. I have read from some threads that some of the hotels don't have elevators. And I will definitely need an elevator to bring our suitcases up the floors. How will I know if the hotel will have an elevator?
There is some Rome hotel discussion in another thread, but if you list out some places you're considering, you may get folks helping you to narrow that down more quickly than just starting from scratch.
To cement myself as a broken record, I don't think the St. Regis is worth the price (in dollars or points). Most folks will tell you not to stay close to Termini (the main rail station) because it's kind of an ugly part of town. I still like the St. George on via Giulia, although I liked it more before it was a Hotel Indigo, but it is a closer walk to the Vatican than anything else.
