Loungeact

Traveling from nice, France to Rome, Italy this July in one day. Should we fly or take the train?

I imagine the coast line along genoa and down to Pisa to be very beautiful. But will we actually "see" it from the train, or does the train run mostly inland?

Flying is obviously much faster, but not as pretty or interesting.

Has anybody taken the train along the coastline?

Perche

I don't know about traveling from Nice, but I suspect the train will take you to Milan, and from Milan you'll take a high speed down to Rome. In general, the italian trains are spectacular for their efficiency and comfort, the speed of getting from place to place. Nothing like it in America as far as I know. But they're designed for transportation, no t sightseeing. I wouldn't call Milan to Rome a scenic ride. If your thinking of Genova and Pisa, those are local trains and you'll need to make a lot of stops, it wouldn't be scenic, and it would be punishingly lone. Nothing wrong with getting to Milan or Torino and taking the high speed Frecciarossa down to avoid airport hassles if that's your fancy, but not for sightseeing purposes.

Loungeact

Yes, local train if you want to call it. There is a line that looks as if it runs along the coast, but again, not sure about the view.

Not interest in the Milan high speed train, we'd probably fly if we go for speed. (Though we will price it)

We will do plenty of rail travel as we start in Paris and head to Barcelona, aix-en, and even take several scenic local trains along the Côte d'Azur.

I'm specifically wondering if that nice/genoa/Florence/Rome piece is worth it I've read somewhere that it is a scenic ride, but I can't find the source anymore and I can't find anything else confirming or refuting. Was hoping someone might have taken that rout. Loads of people train it to cince terre?

Forrest Bump

You can do at least the Cinque Terre by train, then from Genova heading south via regular train service.

Have a look here: http://www.cinqueterreriomaggiore.co...terre-by-train.

slawecki

took the train from bologna to nice about 10 years ago. went to genoa or livorno and changed, went to the french border and changed again.

big disappointment. the seaside of italy is about half a mile inland, and has high concrete walls on both sides. can see nothing. the part from french border to nice(through monaco) was also a mile or two back, and on a "train" that i would describe as a local trolley.

Perche

I've taken the Cinque Terre train. It is a little local. Like riding a subway car in New York or Chicago, only outside for much of the way, with occasional views. I'd have to agree with Slawecki, Italian trains are made to get people from Point A to Point B. There might be a few routes where there is some scenery, like some routes down in the far south where the trains are not so nice, but there are some extended runs along the beach. In the north you are usually on a wide open plain, occasional hill or highway in the distance. Also, remember local trains are usually very crowded, sometimes you won't find a seat, they are not in air-conditioned, and in July it will be hot. A local train in Italy in July is not pleasant.

YVR Cockroach

Here's the train situation, at least as of October 2013.

There is no train between France and Italy along the Mediterranean. If you want to go by train, you can take a local train from Nice to Ventimiglia on the Italian side of the border and then change for an Italian train. There's said to be quite a set of stairs to be negotiated to change platforms.

The alternative is a SNCF-operated bus that picks up from Nice airport/NCE and goes to Genova/Genoa and Milano/Milan (there may be another route into Italy).

This thread has the relevant info:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/europ...terrenean.html

SNCF IDBus
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/europ...ort-idbus.html

Loungeact

Thanks, slawecki and perche. Sounds like the train ride is not worth it...

yvr cockroach, appreciate that link. We were going to spend one day tuckering along the local train from frujola to ventimigliano. Good to know it wont be scenic and will need to get on and off to experience the towns.

I can get a flight for 45 euros, so we will likely do that.

Up In The Air

It's easy – and a (rather long) beautiful journey. (I don't really understand why you would consider going via Milan or Bologna. If you're not pressed for time these suggestions don't make sense and I can't really understand why anyone should confuse you by suggesting these options.) The scenery is stunning (between tunnels) and there's no need to stop off unless you'd like to see Santa Margherita / Portofino or one of Le Cinque Terre.

Go from Nice to Ventimiglia and then get the regional train down to Genoa. Then take the train to Rome. Simple! It hugs the coast until it gets to southern Tuscany when it heads inland to Rome. You should of course face forward on the right-hand side of the carriage.

Just go to the Trenitalia site: http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...6rcBoC0oPw_wcB

sophiesophie

Last September, I took the train from Siena to Florence to Rapallo - then Rapallo to Genoa and on to Nice. The train runs along the water from Nice to Genoa. It had started to rain so the train was VERY crowded. While the water view was nice (pun intended!), can't say it was spectacular. Interesting to see the incredible yachts, but you will see plenty of those elsewhere on your trip. The Carrara marble quarries (between Genoa and Florence, north of Pisa) you see in the distance is interesting - it looks like snow covered mountains. The train to Florence and Siena also nice, but I can't remember anything special about it. I love train travel though, so I am happy to just travel anywhere in Italy. I did not take the train to Cinque Terre, but it will likely be very crowded.

Perche

Below is what you mean by "hug the coast," and this is not a local train, it's Trenitalia. It looks close to the coast on a grand scale map, but it is not next to the coast. You occasionally get a glimpse of water, and that's it. http://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrovia_Genova-Pisa

Trains don't get to go through scenic parts of town. Genoa will look like this to you. http://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/...ova_Sturla.jpg

You are looking at local trains in a mistaken way. The local train from Ventimiglia to Genova has 28 stops, some of them separated by one minute, and it's only a 110 mile trip. That's a local train, averaging a stop every four minutes. Here's the schedule, scroll up: http://m.e656.net/orario/treno/11236.html#

And I doubt you'll get a seat, you won't have air conditioning on a local train, it will be packed and 100 degrees with 95% humidity in there in July. And that's only the three hours to get you to Genova on a local train. From there to Rome on a local train would be an increasing nightmare, with so many train changes you'd likely get lost. Most small towns that local trains serve don't have any employees. There's no one to speak to if you have a problem. You're asking for a miserable time.

I'd personally probably take the train, but that's because I've learned long ago that the local trains are there for local travel, not for pleasure, and I'd look to get on the high speed trains to downtown Rome to avoid airport headaches, and because I enjoy Italian train travel.

sophiesophie

I didn't exactly say this - but my story above is that you are better off taking high speed trains, not local, as Perche said. My first trip from Siena to Rapallo took about 6 hrs. And that's just part of your journey. I missed a train - I had 7 min to switch trains at a small station and missed it - you can't rely on others to direct you in english quickly. I had to either wait 3+ hours for the next one going the original route, or wait another hour or so for a different route. I took the different route, felt better moving than waiting. It all worked out but the scenery was nothing special.

I had bought a book to read on the plane about train travel in Italy. I learned something that I had not read about before. When you buy your train ticket, if it is paper, you still have to have it validated. There are white or green machines on the track aisles. If it is not validated, I think you can use your ticket on another day. But if it is validated, then it is a used ticket and can't be used again. The book mentioned that if you are on the train and it is not validated, the conductor can fine you - which they like to do to foreigners! I have read differing rules online, though. When in doubt, validate! I would think Perche can better explain it.

Perche

Ticket validation on trains is very important to understand because 95% of the time someone will come by to check your ticket, and if it is one that is supposed to be validated and you didn't, each passenger will get a big fine.

Pleading ignorance won't sway the conductor. I have only seen that work twice, and I've seen a lot of people get fined. Once there were a number of bilingual passengers in the coach, and an unknowing tourist obviously not trying to rip off the train hadn't validated her ticket. As she tried to explain it to the Italian-speaking only conductor many of the bilingual Italians in the coach started haranguing him, demanding that he let her go, and with great reluctance, he did. The second time was me on a local train from Parma to Modena. I simply forgot. And I think I was the only one in the coach. I had a lengthy argument with the conductor telling him I just forgot, plain and simple, and I'm not paying. He finally said, "I believe you," gave me a stern lecture, and let me go.

The validation rule is simple. On the major trains the ticket has a date, a time, the number of the carriage you are assigned to, and your seat assignment. There is no way you can use that ticket again and again and again because the ticket is for a particular seat on a particular train on a particular date and time. If you try to reuse the ticket the next day the conductor can see that, and will fine you. No need to validate a ticket if it has a date and time on it.

Local trains do not have a date and a time on the ticket. You can buy it and use it A month later. Before you get on the train, however, you must validate it by sticking it in the machine that stamps the date and time on it. That means that if you use that ticket today, you can't use it tomorrow because the conductor will see that it was already used yesterday. If you don't date/time stamp your ticket before getting on the train the conductor will assume you bought a ticket and are trying to use the same ticket day after day.

So, the rule is simple. If your ticket has a date, time, and assigned seat, you are riding on a train where you don't need to validate your ticket. If you have a general ticket without a date and time, as with local trains, you must validate it. Validation just means sticking it in the machine that will put a date and time on it so that you have to use it that day, and if you try to use the same ticket the next day, the conductor will know and will fine you.

slawecki

i was fined on a trip from BLQ to VCE. not much, but validate.

as i said, the trip from the italian border to Nice was on a what we in usA would call a trolley. i did not count the stops, but it was a lot. went across the back side of monaco.

KLouis

Grosso modo correct! You don't have to validate a ticket bought through the internet, though. The reason is simple, I think, it won't fit in the machines Now, as far as the conductors are concerned, my experience so far says that two thirds are "human" and one third are a..holes. And I don't believe necessarily that is has to do anything with the passenger bought in flagranti being a foreigner: a) It's the sense of power of a person when wearing an uniform and b) the strange rules. For example, with a ticket for any train other than an IC or a Freccia from A to B you can board any train you want leaving any time or any day from A to go to B. But if you board an IC or a Freccia with a ticket issued for another train (even a later one), then you have to pay a fine plus the price of the ticket (but you can get the other one re-imbursed). The reason, supposedly, is that ICs and Freccie are operated by two different companies that have their own rules, whereby these companies, of course, belong to the same owner: The State railroads! Of corse one can say that you can go to the ticket office in the station and change your ticket. The problem though is that if you have a cheaper ticket (e.g. as a pensioner0 you are not allowed to change the ticket, not even for a fee.

Well, Italy, love it or leave it (I'm about to leave it for 6 months for "other" reasons).