lambchop222

Hi,

Can someone please share their thoughts on this issue I think I might encounter at customs?

I live in the US on a green card. I am from an EU country, originally. I don't have a US passport because I haven't qualified for one yet time-wise.

I'd like to go to Italy on a UA flight but my original EU country passport has expired. My EU ID card is still valid for years to come.

My doubts are.... Italy might let me in solely on my European ID, from what I've heard, but will the US itself let me out on a US green card/EU ID combo alone?..... Or will the ticket desk agents of the airline obligate me to have a valid EU passport instead of my EU ID card?

Thanks ever so, guys!

Perche

This is just an opinion, but I wouldn't take a chance. I think, but do not know, that that you will have almost no chance of getting into Italy. If you were allowed to leave, and were allowed into Italy, it might be the worst thing because upon return you might not get back into the USA. Even a US citizen won't be allowed back into the country using just an ID card and no passport.

lambchop222

Hmmm..... I thought the US green card I have serves as a "passport" for re-entry to the States.

GUWonder

Airlines in the US won't fly you of the US without a passport or some extra special arrangements by European diplomats on your personal behalf.

bdemaria

The green card serves as part of the re-entry process, but according to the state dept. webpage for someone holding a green card

I would find it extremely unlikely that the airline will let you board the flight w/an expired passport.

GUWonder

Extremely unlikely indeed. There are some ways it can happen, but those would involve (a) airline reps making mistakes after being mislead by passenger (or whomever) at time of check-in (and probably later too); or (b) special travel-facilitating docs waiving or circumventing what would otherwise be a requirement to have a passport. The former kind of situation invites possible legal trouble for the airline and/or the passenger; the latter kind of situation would involve extraordinary, special arrangements at a diplomatically-assisted level that very, very few will ever see let alone benefit from during the course of their own travel.

GUWonder

A US citizen has an unconditional right to be admitted into the US at a US port of entry and will be allowed back into the US even without a passport. It is illegal for the US Government to knowingly deny a US citizen admission into the US or to otherwise make a US citizen stateless.

The way it works is that a US citizen at a US POE without a passport claiming to be a US citizen will be sent for further examination to determine citizenship /identity. That determination -- and the admissibility as a citizen which follows -- can be (and must be) done even when the US citizen has no current passport in possession.

Do you really believe US citizens are to be kept in legal limbo for perpetuity just because they lost their passport between boarding the flight outside of the US and arriving at the US CBP clearance facility? Of course they are allowed back into the country even without a passport.

US LPRs are a different story than US citizens, but US LPRs too can be admitted by CBP into the US without a passport; however, if the US LPR is without the LPR docs, it's more of a material issue for the LPR than for a US citizen. They too have a routine way for being considered admissible and admitted into the US too even absent possession of the commonly used type of travel docs.

TWA884

The US has no immigration exit controls.

However, as others have written, no airline will let you board a flight to a foreign destination without a passport or special authorization/travel document which will allow you to enter your country of destination.

Perche

Of course I don't believe that if you are a US citizen, and you lost or don't have a passport, you can never get into the USA again, in perpetuity.

When you get in line to go through passport control at the arrival airport, if you don't have a passport and just present an ID card, no way are getting through. You will not be allowed back into the USA without a passport.

Will you be kept in legal limbo in perpetuity? Of course not. You will have to go through certain steps and will of course eventually get in.

The Terrorism Reform and Preventive Act of 2004 requires anyone entering the USA, except from Bermuda, Canada, Mexico, or the Caribbean region to show a passport. For these regions only, other forms of ID may do.

You won't be in perpetual limbo but you won't get through the passport line and will wait in legal limbo while you go through the process of getting a passport.

I wouldn't leave the USA without a valid passport to get back in.

GUWonder

The above is false.

I repeatedly have seen US citizens arrive (from Asia/ANZ, continental Europe and South America) at US airports without a US (or any other) passport; and the delay to get to the car in the US airport parking lot or to the roadside curb landside has been anything from a minute to a couple of hours longer than for others.

The following quoted section is also misleading and peddling a fiction:

Now here are the facts: CBP doesn't issue passports; and the US citizen doesn't need to go through the process of getting (or waiting for) a passport on arrival at the US airport in order to be admitted into the US as a US citizen.

A little information mixed with misinformation is a dangerous thing, especially when unfamiliar with all the relevant information and ignorant of the entire context of the legal and regulatory regime and practices relevant to the rights of a US citizen to be admitted/re-admitted into the US at a port of entry in the US.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and their own opinion about the facts, but no one is entitled to make up "facts" that aren't facts.

The fact is that US citizens at a US airports of entry are subject to a form of routine admission into the US even when no passport is in possession of the US citizen at the port of entry. The US citizen doesn't need to wait on arrival at the airport in the US for a passport to be issued in order to be admitted by CBP.

angatol

.....

FlyTrey

I don't think that's true. As long as you are an italian citizen you can enter Italy on just your ID card, it doesn't matter where you come from.The airline only requires you to have a valid document for entering the country you're flying to, so in theory you should be ok.

But you must get a new passport while you're in Italy if you want to return to the US.

GUWonder

It's not necessarily about getting on the flight without a passport, although sometimes that happens too.

The fact is that US citizens do seek admission into the US at US airports of entry without having a valid US passport in their possession for presentation at time of seeking admission into the US. How that (i.e., arrival in the US without their own valid US passport) happens varies. When it happens, it is most frequently due to a loss/irregular handling of the US passport after: (a) having had their boarding pass scanned and flagged as having boarded; and/or (b) having used a non-US passport or someone else's passport at time to check-in and/or board.

For these circumstances of US citizens without a valid US passport on arrival at a US airport of entry, the US citizen tells the CBP they are a US citizen; and then US citizen is most frequently sent for a secondary examination of the sort I mentioned in my earlier post in this thread.

angatol

.....

GUWonder

There are other US citizens too on FT who have traveled to the US without a valid US passport. Here is one example providing a decent window into how this sort of stuff commonly is handled on arrival into the US:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/13806734-post12.html

There are various scenarios where this has taken place, and you even seem to have some idea how this has happened and can happen. Look in your own big paragraph above.

Here is how this situation of a US citizen showing up with a US (and/or any) passport at US CBP station at a US airport of entry happens:

1. Passports can be lost/taken/discarded/forgotten between having the boarding pass scanned at boarding time and getting on the plane. Irregularities in some gate area or on/near the jet-bridge/stairs/bus for example.

2. Passports can be lost/taken/discarded/forgotten while passenger is on the plane.

3. Passports can be lost/taken/discarded/forgotten between disembarking the plane and getting to the CBP passport control desks.

Common cases? They are cases that happen repeatedly, daily at that.

Some US dual-citizens lose both/all their passports in the course of 1, 2, or 3. Some people put all their "eggs" (read: passports) in one "basket" and lose all their "eggs" together. Others don't put all the eggs in one basket.