angatol

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Aviatrix

And on what are you basing this opinion? Immigration rules are not a matter of opinion.

Fact is that a national ID card issued by any EU member state is a valid travel document for entering all other EU member states. So, as long as he can get on the flight the OP will, with absolute 100% certainty, be able to enter Italy on his EU ID card. It is a valid travel document.

And I can't see how an airline can refuse to let someone on a flight if they have a valid travel document for their destination. All airlines are interested in is whether or not the passenger has a travel document that lets them enter their destination country. Which, clearly, is the case with the OP.

GUWonder

The US has a rule that requires common carrier airlines to generally require a passport from passengers flying into or out of the US. That a free person is admissible in the US and/or in the destination country doesn't satisfy that US rule applicable to common carrier flights into or out of the US.

Give it to my government to complicate things.

Aviatrix

Thanks for this piece of information. "Into" makes sense, "out of" doesn't if it stops people from being allowed to return to their own countries using a valid travel document that is acceptable for entry to that country. But if that's the rule then I guess there is nothing that can be done.

angatol

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Perche

As I said, this is my opinion, but it seems to be true based upon reviewing the relevant websites. Of course a US citizen will eventually get in, but not by just walking through the passport control lane.

In theory, you are allowed to leave the US with just a green card. http://www.united.com/web/en-US/cont.../passport.aspx. But it states specifically that a green card alone is not enough to allow you to get back in.

Now here are the facts; the OP is not a US citizen, and he has never held a US passport.

You said, "A little information mixed with misinformation is a dangerous thing, especially when unfamiliar with all the relevant information and ignorant of the entire context of the legal and regulatory regime and practices relevant to the rights of a US citizen to be admitted/re-admitted into the US at a port of entry in the US."

Yes, a little misinformation can be very dangerous to the OP since you are comparing apples to moonbeams; he is not a US citizen, and the same rules do not apply.

According to the US State Department, although I could be wrong, a passport may be required to enter Italy even if he has an EU ID: http://travel.state.gov/content/pass...act-sheet.html
Travel to European Countries in the Schengen Area

Check the expiration date on your passport carefully before traveling to Europe. Entry into any of the 26 European countries in the Schengen area for short-term tourism, a business trip, or in transit to a non-Schengen destination, requires that your passport be valid for at least three months beyond your intended date of departure. If your passport does not meet the Schengen requirements, you may be refused boarding by the airline at your point of origin or while transferring planes. You could also be denied entry when you arrive in the Schengen area. For this reason, we recommend that your passport have at least six months’validity remaining whenever you travel abroad."

Again, the OP is not a US citizen. I don't think you should be confusing him by making irrelevant claims.

The person whose story you are referring to was a US citizen.

I don't believe that a non-US citizen is without a passport is going to get in line at passport control and get through in one minute, as has been implied by GUWonder. Perhaps some US citizens who have lost their passport but have photocopies of their passports may have been able to get through the line at passport control without too much hassle, but this doesn't apply to the OP.

According to CBP for a US citizen: https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...y-into-the-u.s.
"What documents, identification, and paperwork does a U.S. citizen need to travel internationally?

If you are traveling in the Western Hemisphere (Canada, Mexico, Caribbean, Central and South America):

Air Travel: All U.S. citizens departing from or entering the United States from within the Western Hemisphere by air are required to present a valid passport or NEXUS card (if utilizing a NEXUS kiosk when departing from a designated Canadian airport). Merchant Mariner Document (for U.S. citizens on official maritime business.) Note that children are also required to present their own passport when traveling by air." And a NEXUS card is only useable at the Canadian border.

For Lawful Permanent Residents:http://www.dhs.gov/crossing-us-borders#1
"All travelers including children must present a passport or secure travel document when entering the United States by air."

Also:http://travel.state.gov/content/pass...checklist.html
"Most U.S. citizens must use a U.S. passport to travel overseas and reenter the United States.

Most foreign countries require a valid passport to enter and leave. Some countries may allow you to enter with only a birth certificate, or with a birth certificate and a driver’s license, but all persons, including U.S. citizens, traveling by air, must present a valid passport to reenter the United States."

I don't assume the requirement is more lax for someone who is not a US citizen. I am sure there is a process for US citizens who have lost their passports, and for non-citizens who have a valid passport but lost it. I wouldn't place any bets on a non-citizen without a valid passport.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...ort-29797.html
"Know Your (Lack of) Rights
Foreign nationals attempting to come to the United States, either temporarily or permanently, have very few rights during the application and screening process. You cannot have a lawyer represent you when you attempt to enter the U.S., nor are you allowed to call one if problems occur during your interrogation. Your bags can be searched without your permission, and CBP officials can ask you almost any question."

I had breakfast with two pilots this AM. One is a retired Air Force colonel who now has his own very high level air travel security form that works for the government. I asked him about someone with a green card getting through passport control with an expired foreign passport. He would hardly let me finish that sentence, he was so incredulous. He had several comments on it.

First, there are a lot of things that people used to do, but can't do anymore. Second, security is trained to be skeptical. If they let someone in and it turns out that they made a mistake, they will lose their job. Their default is if there is any doubt when it comes to a non-US citizen, they will deny. Finally, he said that if the random agent doing the interview thinks the OP lied in response to any question, or is suspicious in any way and denies him entry, the OP will not be allowed to return to the United States for any reason whatsoever for several years.

As some have said, US citizens lose their passport get into the USA every single day. On the other hand, hundreds of non-US citizens get denied entry into the USA every single day. Both pilots said that before he invests in an expensive plane ticket and something as important as getting denial of entry either in Italy, or when returning to the US, he should call CBP and get the real scoop, rather than rely on random internet opinions.

angatol

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GUWonder

I am not comparing anything. I am correcting your posts' peddled misinformation about US citizens entering the US.

Government and other websites on these matters are routinely dumbed down to make things smoother for the government and for most passengers, but that doesn't make them wholly representative of all that is allowed under the law and must be allowed under the law.

If your posts had not peddled misinformation about US citizens, then I wouldn't have posted the facts with which you seem to not accept as fact. You are free to believe facts aren't facts, but that won't change the facts about US citizens lawfully admitted into the US without US passports at US airports of entry.

GUWonder

1 No
2 Highly probable, but depends upon the EU citizen's past and present circumstances
3 No
4 Yes, unless LPR status is no longer applicable

Aviatrix

Would you care to elaborate? Under what circumstances could a citizen of a European Union member state be denied entry to another EU country? The only situation I can think of is if that person has been specifically barred from the country concerned, which is something that only happens in very exceptional cases.

GUWonder

You've covered a circumstance which I had in mind, so thanks for elaborating for me.

"Exceptional cases" are going to be increasing in number.

angatol

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GUWonder

Sure, unless and until being denied admission into another EU country (than that of citizenship) hits -- directly or indirectly at that -- you or someone you know. But it happens and is a fact to be included for purposes of being wholly accurate on this matter.

angatol

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GUWonder

Vis-ŕ-vis proper legal compliance for common carrier passenger flights, yes.