stimpy

Where LV happens to put a store is not a way to judge a hotel. There are a lot of areas to cover when comparing hotels. I said "just about the best" meaning there are other hotels that are better in some ways. I see that the JW did have a renovation in 2013 that I wasn't aware of. So maybe it's in better shape now than it was before that. But it is kind of far from Old Town so I still would not want to stay there. Location counts for a lot.

milty908

IC has a great reputation in Asia, Europe and South America. Hotel quality overall, is better outside the US.

IC Da Nang and IC Koh Samui both have some of the best service even from traditionally non-customer facing staff like groundskeepers and housekeeping.

submonte

Having visited yearly several times Romania in the past 25 years through private connections I have been in Bucharest countless times, and also been to the hotel bars and restaurants, rarely long time ago also stayed at one or the other of the properties.

The JW Marriott Bucharest Grand Hotel´s 7th and 8th floors (club floors) with around 100 rooms, 5 suites, two presidential suites and the club lounge have been renovated recently (remodelling finshed early 2016). The JW is unique in Bucuresti with its impressive "grand" style and upscale shopping gallery, casino, fitness club, six bars and restaurants and amongst the locals considered to be the most prestigious hotel in Bucharest. It is owned by the second largest hotel company in Romania, SCHG, which is owned majorly by Austrian STRABAG construction company (they offered their shares for sale now, Romanians are interested to buy). I remember a nice evening with family in the lobby bar many years ago. The location is not very central behind Casa Poporului (officially named Palatul Parlamentului - Parlament´s Palace).

The InterContinental Bucharest was the first 5 star hotel in Romania up to international standards, opened 1971 (highest building that time), also first in providing buffet breakfast and room service. The legend says that Cyrus Eaton jr., a US business man and IC adminstrator gave initial ignition for construction after not getting a hotel room during a stay in the sixties in Bucharest. Still it is among the best hotels in Romania. Has best views from all rooms, and as far as I remember every room has a balcony. It was the headquarters of the press during Romanian Revolution in 1989. I had a coffee in their piano bar in the lobby area end of Dec. last year and must say I am not a fan of that dark and dated interiour style which reminds me of the unlucky old times in Romania (They promote it as meeting point of the Spys that time). Hotel owned by Dan Adamescu familiy/companies (a Romanian billionaire who died recently). Excellent location in Sector 1, heart of Bucharest, at University Square, near Old Town, Unirii Square.

The Athenee Palace Hilton has a long and prestigious history going back to 1914. It is located at famous Calea Victoriei and opposite Revolution square, National Museum of Art, Atheneum (concert hall), and others. It would be my favorite hotel in Bucharest for stays, not too "grand", convenient and central location with a breath of contemporary history, light art deco style, good standard and food for foreigners. Have been with friends for cocktails in the English Bar in December and in the Cafe Athenee last summer. Next time we will go to Robertos, the Italian restaurant (with terrace outside). Owner is Ana Holdings, the largest hotel company in Romania (Georghe Copos). Enlargement announced with another 70 rooms.

Location aspects / Walk to the Old Town (shopping, restaurant, bar, night life district) Lipscani / Strada Lipscani from several 5* hotels:

- from JW Marriott: 30 mins
- from Intercontinental: 10 mins
- from Hilton: 15 mins
- from Radisson: 20 mins
- from Sheraton: 25 mins
- from Carol Parc: 30 mins

There is no "best" hotel here, as stimpy said. You can stay at all three (and also Sheraton, Radisson Blu, Carol Parc) and it will be fully ok or even better. Do not expect too much. Bucharest (Romania) is not a market for MO, FS, RC or Leading Hotels yet, the transition into a western democracy is not finished yet, thanks desastrous politics of the profiteers of the revolution, highly corrupt "foster-sons and grandsons" of the communist regime, who shared the assets of the Romanian people between themselves, unable and unwilling to create a working infrastructure and reliable conditions for investments of foreign companies in nearly 30 years now, the country facing another (now peaceful) revolution by the young generation who understands what is going on.

submonte

Lior Bebera, GM of Intercontinental Bucharest (Interview in "Romania Libera" March 10th published)

CV. Who is Lior Bebera

Before coming to Bucharest Lior Bebera worked in many hotels of InterContinental network, such as in Berlin, Tel Aviv, Kiev, and IHG headquarters in London. Previously he held the position of Hotel Manager at InterContinental Malta responsible for the operational management of the hotel.

In the position of European Operations Support Manager at IHG, Lior Bebera was part of the European Committee of Experts Food & Beverage, which had its mission in creation of concepts, tools and processes for hotels to increase revenue and improve performance in restaurants bars and in the organization of events.

http://www.romanialibera.ro/opinii/i...mai-bun-443272

https://translate.google.de/translat...272&edit-text=

Vince Chan

You know I was joking about the LV part, right?

Anyway, average rate counts more than location to judge whether a hotel's tier and level in one city.


For example, in Hanoi,Vietnam, the Intercontinental west lake had been the very best 5 star hotel in this location, probably in the whole northern Vietnam. Until..The JW Marriott opens, it soon replaced IC and becomes the new favorite kid in town, and its rate is the most expensive in Hanoi, nearly double IC sometimes.


When it comes to a brand, exclusivity is one thing. For another example, Grand Hyatt , Conrad or JWM would not open 5 different properties in one city(Shanghai).

But hey, IC is luxury for its fans, check Wiki's "hotel" page:

"An upscale full service hotel facility that offers luxury amenities, full service accommodations, on-site full service restaurants, and the highest level of personalized and professional service. Luxury hotels are normally classified with at least a Four Diamond or Five Diamond status or a Four or Five Star rating depending on the country and local classification standards. Examples may include: InterContinental, Waldorf Astoria, Four Seasons, Conrad, Fairmont, and The Ritz-Carlton."

Maybe wiki's IHG fan should put Crown Plaza and Sheraton along with IC into this luxury segment? Since they are both ranked as the same segment.

Land-of-Miles

Even if you love IC Properties (which I am starting to find I do less and less), it just isn't a luxury brand like St Regis or Ritz Carlton is it, let's be honest.

stimpy

IC is not at the level of MO, Pen or FS. But I completely disagree that it is lower than StR or RC's. At least in certain markets. And you do have to go market by market. The IC HKG as we all know is a pretty good hotel. Yes it could use a room renovation and it is getting one next year, but it is still a far sight better than most St. Regis hotels. No matter how good the new St Regis Hong Kong will be, the views will be awful in comparison to either IC. And I can think of about 30 IC's that are better than the St Regis Washington DC, including of course the IC just a short walk away. And I know several RC's that are quite poor in comparison, just as I know some RC's that are really great.

And if you mix in Royal Ambassador treatment versus Ritz Platinum or SPG Platinum, RA wins out everywhere that I can think of.

Land-of-Miles

I think you have to look at average to average to assess the true quality of the brand not compare best IC's with worst elsewhere.

I am not sure in the brave new world of cookie cutter RA treatment even that is a good differentiator and that is totally different to how good the hotels are anyway.

stimpy

Then you have to go city by city because in some towns IC will be best and some times StR or RC will be better. Or simply not present. London for example has two decent IC's, but no St. Regis nor a mainline Ritz property. For 99% of travelers it really depends on a small set of cities for them to judge by. There's not many of us who visit 100 different cities per year who might care about average performance.

I don't believe that RA treatment is cookie cutter globally yet and I of course hope that never happens. So far in my travels it is only the US that is like that and even then the property has discretion to go above and beyond.

Land-of-Miles

I will see your Washington and give you AUH which has a shocking excuse for an IC but 2 fab SR's.

London does have the rather nice Park Tower as a LC if not SR and The Ritz (which is an RC Affiliate if not a RC).

I do like the IC HKG a great deal but would also happily stay at the RC, after last weekend I will probably never make another revenue stay at the IC PL, just one too many bad experiences when paying my own money have completely put me off but I do like the IC O2. Neither could reasonably be described as luxurious properties though (although I think the IC O2 has a strong edge over PL).

stimpy

Fair enough. I haven't been to AUH in many years.

The Park Tower! That's a horrible choice to compare with either London IC. Talk about cookie cutter, there's no "luxury" hotel as bad as the Park Tower in that respect. No club lounge, no possibility for a suite upgrade or any kind of meaningful upgrade as all the rooms are the same size. I tried it out again last summer to see if there was any improvement over my stay a decade past, but no. There really isn't much they can do to that hotel to improve it. And the service was no better than the IC, at least comparing stays there last summer. I've seen your negative comments about a recent stay at the PL.

And as you note the Ritz London is not fully in the RC program and you don't get Marriott Platinum benefits there. So it's off my list for that reason. If I'm staying for luxury in London my first choice is the Rosewood or maybe the FS if I really need to be near Mayfair. But if I want to keep it around £250 I'll stay at one of the IC's over anything else.

Land-of-Miles

There are suites at the Park Tower, I have had Suite Upgrades at the Park Tower as a Plat. The average room at the Park Tower is both larger and considerably nicer than the average room at the IC PL, the vast majority are considerably quieter and typically afford MUCH nicer views and they almost all have separate bath and shower. You can debate the status benefits but it doesn't take away the fact that IC is not really a luxury hotel chain, it may be good for those of us with Status and at the upper end of the cookie cutter chains but IC is still a pretty bog standard chain at the upper end of the middle market.

I actually had far better treatment recently on a reward night stay at the Hilton PL than I have had in the last year or so paying for rooms at the IC PL. That doesn't make the Hilton a better property (and for avoidance of doubt I don't think it is despite the huge 24th floor suite with sauna I had on my last stay).

htb

I don't think treatment of Elites should play a role in placing a hotel into the luxury or upscale segment. I just don't see the connection.

HTB.

stimpy

The point about elite status is that most of us in this thread, and in Flyertalk in general, have elite status. I have zero interest in judging a hotel as someone without elite status because that is meaningless to me.

As for whether IC is luxury or not, like I said it's not in the class of the real top brands such as MO, FS, Rosewood, etc. But neither is St Regis or SPG Luxury collection or most RC's. I have a lot of experience in each of these brands in the cities I go to and IC is very much in that class. Some cities better, some worse, but generally in the same class. I can't claim to have that experience at every city in the world, but then who can?

As for the Hilton PL, I once spent a night in one of the huge Park Lane suites and the room was indeed very nice and spacious with great views. But the rest of the hotel, especially the EL, was decidedly on the lower end of the 4 star spectrum. Not as good as the IC PL. IMHO anyways.

And those "suites" at the Park Tower are just two of the cookie cutter rooms joined together right? Even as SPG Platinum booking an Executive level room I've never seen a suite there. While I have seen many different suites at the IC PL booking entry level and even on award nights.

htb

I have no problem that you judge hotels also in view of how they treat you as an elite. I do the same when I have to decide where I'm going to stay.

However, the way a hotel treats its elites should not factor into categorizing a hotel as "luxurious" or "upper upperscale" or similar. A hotel doesn't become more luxurious because you get an upgrade or free lounge access. You (or) -- as elites -- just get more bang for the buck. It's completely fine to aim for that, but it's a different game.

HTB.