VLtone

[Moderator edit: Please see OP's post #2 below for the details of his inquiry. Ocn Vw 1K, Senior Moderator.]

VLtone

Hi All,

For the past 2 years I've been fortunate enough to travel with my wife to Africa round trip in Business class. I'd like to keep a trend like this going (maybe once a year isn't sustainable) but the points and miles game is getting more difficult. On top of that, Africa isn't as popular of a destination and so you have not a ton of transfer partners that will go to the African continent.

I had been accruing US miles because they were part of star alliance, and only required 110k miles for business. Then US became AA and the number went up to 150k and needed to be redeemed on One World which has less partners that will get you there (yes British Airways also works but their fuel charges makes them not even worth considering).

Now AA has made it more difficult to earn miles (as has everyone), the credit card bonuses are getting smaller and I'm flying less than I used to. It seems to me that being loyal to AA doesn't have much purpose for me anymore.

So I'm not at a point where once I use up my existing AA miles in the next year - I may want to consider new miles earning strategies/new cards/alliances, etc. I was wondering if anyone on this particular forum is in the same boat or has some good ideas as to how they'll strategize.

It seems to me that United has the best partners but requires a lot of miles (and I don't see a lot of card sign on bonuses). Going the Chase route is something I haven't done before, but their partners don't seem to be Africa friendly. I'm really not sure which route I should be going.

Yoshi212

The US Airlines program had several sweet spots for redemption but it is gone and not coming back. With reducing your own travel, if you want to keep up with getting "free" miles you're going to have to spend and churn cards. If you haven't tapped the Ultimate Rewards program it's a strong program to get into with lots of signup opportunities and plenty of transfer partners. Amex Membership Rewards is another opportunity.

Avoiding BA's high reward charges is something we all try to avoid but they do have a lot of award opportunities. UR transfers to a few partners (UA, SQ, VS to name a few) which are also shared by the MR program giving you access to lots of signup points. Just don't waste signup bonuses under the MR program as they are now 1 per card for "life".

VLtone

It seems that accruing UR and MR points only give me 1 transfer partner in which Africa is on the menu and that's UA, correct? If that's the case then I suppose I could signup for UA cards as well as chase cards and pool them into UA.

I'm unfamiliar with Chase but understand that they're pretty strict as far as multiple signups. When you say not to waste signup bonuses within the MR program, can you elaborate a bit?

jsnydcsa

Might this discussion be better suited for the Oneworld forum? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oneworld-411/

You seem to be a United States based flyer (based on your mentions of US and AA) so you have to keep in mind that your options between the United States and Africa are more and more limited. With the loss/switch of US to AA (and Oneworld) and SA moving over to United's program (and Star) it makes it even more complicated. I too benefited from the US program's "low-cost" (in miles) buys (for Economy or Coach) on SAA and miss that now.

On the Oneworld side (if you're sticking with AA in the USA), you could consider Qatar. I and significant other have a bunch of banked up AA miles (ex US) and they're just sitting there right now. For a variety of different reasons, we've flown on revenue tickets to SA (on SAA) so we haven't had to "deal" with the issues discussed in the previous paragraph. So, as those miles sat there, and I dreaded the BA surcharge-related options (not!), I always had in mind "Hey, maybe Qatar could be the way to go?" I haven't fiddled around with it to see if that's a logical choice, but since you seemed to be faced with the more immediate problem, perhaps its worth a look.

If you're doing a lot of US-based flying and you want to avoid Europe and the nearly day-long layovers for SA bound flights, you could go United / Star and continue on with SAA.

Do NOT join SAA's FF program (Voyager), I've never been a member and I think I made a good choice
See,
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/south...ed-status.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/south...sed-flyer.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/south...a-voyager.html
There are probably other threads similar to these in the SAA - Voyager Forum.

And, as someone who was - about 10-15 years ago - traveling there about 1x every month or so for both business and pleasure, in Econ and Business, I can say that "life" (and all those spends of money and miles) did catch up. We're now less frequent travelers to SA. But, are in tears every time we pull back from the gate at JNB (sorry, ORT).

sdsearch

Chart vs availability are two different things.

I have way more AA miles than UA or DL, but for my upcoming trip to southern Africa early next year, at the 11 month mark I checked all three alliances, and AA's 150k for QR (Qatar) was the only one with availability (though only for Mon-Thu departures) and without BA's high fees. (But even with high fees, BA was not really available, since it was showing "selected cabin not available" for the LHR-JNB leg.) Whatever it might have cost in theory at UA (or DL or AS), there was no business class availability with even one business class seat actually available on every leg. (Be careful; some sites in summary will cliaim there are business class flights available on a multi-leg itenerary when only one of those legs has business class.)

Now, that was from LAX, and I didn't check other cities, so I'm not claiming that there never is availability from any other US city. Nor did I check any time other than around the 11 month mark (when award booking with US carriers becomes availability). Nor did I check for any destinations within Africa other than JNB. But it's something to consider.

And finding two seats is often harder than one, so all the more reason to check availability and not just award charts.

And as a FlyerTalk member, you can check availability for a few sample dates on all three alliances for free at www.awardnexus.com (click "more signup options" under the green Purchase button to sign up with your FlyerTalk account). And don't search a multi-leg itinerary as one city pair; you'll get bogus "phantom" results that way. You have to search each flight leg separately to see true and correct business class inventory.

And since inventory is somewhat unpredictable, I wouldn't suggest putting all your eggs in one alliance basket. If possible, always have enough miles on hand in each of three alliances for any "difficult" trip like this.

If you use up your AA miles on non-Africa trips which you could book with other miles, and then next time the only availability to Africa is with AA miles, then what? I suggest you save your AA miles, therefore, rather than using them up, and immediately start collecting in other alliances. (And do plan to replenish your AA miles as you can, even if it's only once every 24 months.)

VLtone

I appreciate the reply. Yes Qatar is really the only option in OW for US to Africa and I used them last year (and their business product is really really nice.

My concern is that now that I'm about to start from 0, I don't know that it makes much sense to continue with AA/OW since I'm not flying much these days and with AA not awarding many miles for coach customers. So I'm wondering about more advanced strategies potentially across multiple credit card universes and airline universes.

Basically as you said - there aren't tons of options to fly award tickets from US to Africa and on top of that, the CC signup bonuses are getting smaller and some only offer 1 bonus in your lifetime. I'm concerned that my trips to Africa will be less and less without the ability to accrue and redeem. I'm sure someone has a miles hack that they've thought of which I haven't.

Gardyloo

Where are you based and where, and how often, do you fly? A non-alliance carrier like Alaska might work. Alaska offers redemption on numerous Oneworld and Skyteam airlines, as well as indies like Icelandair and Emirates, often at decent rates. https://www.alaskaair.com/content/mi...use-miles.aspx

Not directly tied to your question, but I'm obliged to mention that Oneworld business class RTWs bought and started in South Africa are good value - around US$3800 for a 16-segment, 4-continent RTW ticket good for a year. You can earn enough miles in one of these to pay for significant travel after the RTW is done. Fly on miles to Joburg or Cape Town, start the RTW, head home (assuming it's in North America) via Australia or Asia or Europe, fly around North America, the Caribbean or Central America for a few months, then return to Africa (can be anywhere on the continent; you just have to start in SA and end somewhere in Africa) - stopping en route in Europe, Asia or Australia (whichever way you didn't go on leaving Africa earlier.)

I've typically managed to handle most of my business/leisure travel for most of a year using one of these, and earned enough miles (and elite status) in the process that the following year's travel could largely be done on miles. So you could end up with 20 or so business or first class segments for something like $250 each after taxes/fees. Not shabby for ORD-DFW; spectacular for JFK-SYD.

Details on the Oneworld board.

Yoshi212

Amex started a protocol a year or so ago of 1 signup bonus for each card per person for life. So if you get a 25k bonus for the Amex PRG card and then 2 years later they're offering 50k points for a signup you're SOL if you went with the 25k bonus.
Chase does the 24 months between close and being eligible for a new bonus per card I believe. And they also restrict how many cards in a certain time period you can get new.

UA is a Chase transfer partner with redemptions on SA, LH, LX, TK ect.
AA's redemption sweet spot for Africa seems to be QR & CX at the moment.
MR transfer partner's include AF that fly to South Africa & KLM to various other parts. MR also transfer to Emirates but EK tickets do seem to have high copays like BA. MR also transfer to AC with redemption possible on Star Alliance members just like UA's redemptions. MR points also transfer to SQ & NH which offer good redemption values to the EU & Tokyo. MR also transfer to Asia Miles.

VLtone

Thanks very much for the response.

I've flown *A to Africa previously and didn't have many problems finding availability (at least no more difficult than it always seems to be). Considering that with AA you really only have QR and with UA you've got Lufthansa, South African, Ethiopian there are a lot more options.

I see your point in regards to having miles in different universes, but that's also easier said than done. It's hard enough to accrue 150k x2 let alone having that type of volume in 2 or more areas. Obviously that's better but how is that even feasible for the average person?

sdsearch

To accrue once in a while is not hard. To accrue it annually is something else. You're the first person I've heard mention wanting to find award trips to Africa every year. Most people in the US (not going there on business) probably do at most a handful of trips in a lifetime, spread years apart.

If starting from scratch (or 24+ months out from the last time you opened or close each of these cards):

Sign up for a Citi AA Plat card and earn 50k bonus miles for $3k spend in 3 months

Sign up for a Citi AA Gold card and earn 25k bonus miles for minor spend

Sign up for a Citi AA business card and earn 50k bonus miles for similar spend to the personal Plat

That's 125k bonus, plus about 7k for or 132k total with the required minimum spend. That's not quite 150k, but it's fairly close.

And each person can do that independently of the other, if each person has their own AA account. So the 2x part is handled by both people doing it.

Close each card after you complete the minimum spend and the miles post, and repeat 2 years after that, and you can do at least another 75k (whether you can repeat the business card is very YMMV). Or you can do it a bit faster if you keep both personal cards open for 2 years (and cancel only right after being approved for the next one of the same type), but that may or may not require paying annual fees each year (if you aren't successful at getting retention bonuses).

Oh, I almost forget, you can get another 50k with the Citi AA Executive card, but that has a $450 or so annual fee which is not waived the first year. So it depends how badly you want that extra 50k whether you may want to go for the Executive or not.

And remember, AA supports one-way awards, so you each only need 75k to fly QR (or whoever) one way, if you can find availability on another alliance the other direction.

And I'm not sure why it's hard to devote $7k or so of spend every couple years to earn (hopefully as much as) 132k AA miles every couple years or so, while spending the rest of the time trying to get miles in one or both other alliances.

But it depends on how you're going to pursue other alliances, of course. If you're going to try to churn Chase CSP cards, then it's not compatible to also pursue AA (or much else !), since Chase applies 5/24 to CSP and Freedom cards (no card for you if applied for 5 or more cards with any banks in the past 24 months!). 5/24 currently does not apply to UA cards or the business Ink card, though there have been rumors that it would start earlier this year (but hasn't started so far that we can tell).

Amex currently has a once-in-a-lifetime (actually meaning once in about 7 years) policy on a per-card basis, but they have so many different cards that earn Membership Rewards points that you can go for quite a while collecting them without repeating one, and all you need to keep your Membership Rewards points "forever" is to get an Amex Everyday card (which has no annual fee), and then link all your MR cards to the same MR account. All other Amex MR cards that you don't feel a need to keep you can cancel after a year or whatever. And at Amex, like at Citi, it's easy to apply for a business card whether you have a "real" business or not.

Remember, not only do you not need to fly on UA when you redeem UA miles, you don't need to redeem UA miles to fly on *A. Amex MR has transfer partners in *A, just not UA itself.

rdurlabhji

I would say hold off on the AA Executive card until they offer one of the larger signup bonuses (75k or 100k). Same with Amex Plat.

sdsearch

Say what??? There is no history of such high bonuses with the Citi AA Platinum card. I think you may be confusing it with the Cit AA Executive card.

But in any case, Citi went through a period of higher AA bonuses (and more lenient churning rules) during the economic downturn, and now that that's over, they've tightened up on churning and have lowered bonuses (to the point where they've stopped "publicly" offering signup bonus in the first place on many of their ThankYou cards, and to the point where the "most pubilc" Citi AA Platinum card bonus is only 30k, and you have to know where to look to find even 50k).

So while you can apply for a 50k bonus on a Citi AA Plat every 24 months (if current rules hold), you may end up waiting way more than 24 months if you try to hold out for a 75k of 100k bonus!

Amex is a different story. They tend to raise and lower and raise and lower their MR card bonuses much more (and more more often) than Citi varies AA Plat card bonuses.

rdurlabhji

Fixed it. I get all their offerings mixed up.

daKav

I'll plug in my (almost relevant) question. I thought Citi AA card sign up bonus was once in a life time kindda deal. Was I wrong? I had no idea it could be repeated. I am gonna apply for that tonight

I started playing this miles game in the last year after I got out of college and already have *A J tickets to Asia (India) for 2017. Like OP mentioned, I weeded out OW because of BA's fuel surcharge.