PIO to OCI Conversion
Apr 6, 2015, 6:12 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP (One World Emerald), Hilton Gld, Marriot Slvr
Posts: 252
PIO to OCI conversion - new rules - experience?
I was pleased to read on the Indian consulates website that PIO cards are now automatically considered as OCI cards.
Per CKGS (the visa processing agency for Indian consulates here in the USA) I see that one has to apply for and send in PIO cards and a whole host of documents to actually get a OCI card issued in place of a PIO (albeit for $0 charged by GoI; but two copies of everything including checklists, that CKGS asks for which is a huge pile of paperwork) and they say this becomes mandatory in a few months.
However, there is also some conflicting info on the relevant GoI consular website which says border agents in India have been instructed to place a "lifelong" sticker on PIO cards that are presented at the border, and the PIO cards are considered OCI cards.
I am trying to figure out whether to participate in the CKGS de-forestation effort or risk showing up at the airport in India. Planned travel is in July.
Any thoughts/guidance welcome!
Per CKGS (the visa processing agency for Indian consulates here in the USA) I see that one has to apply for and send in PIO cards and a whole host of documents to actually get a OCI card issued in place of a PIO (albeit for $0 charged by GoI; but two copies of everything including checklists, that CKGS asks for which is a huge pile of paperwork) and they say this becomes mandatory in a few months.
However, there is also some conflicting info on the relevant GoI consular website which says border agents in India have been instructed to place a "lifelong" sticker on PIO cards that are presented at the border, and the PIO cards are considered OCI cards.
I am trying to figure out whether to participate in the CKGS de-forestation effort or risk showing up at the airport in India. Planned travel is in July.
Any thoughts/guidance welcome!
Apr 7, 2015, 5:52 am
#2
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,168
Why do you want to get an OCI card? PIO cards work well and need no replacement. They are valid for the life time of the holder as per gazette notification in later September 2014:
MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS
NOTIFICATION
New Delhi, the 30th September, 2014
No. 25024/9/2014-F.I.—In the notification of the Government of India in the Ministry of Home
Affairs number 26011/4/98-F.I dated the 19th August, 2002, published in the Gazette of India, Extraordinary,
Part I, Section 1, dated the 19th August, 2002, the Central Government hereby makes the following
amendments in the Scheme for issuance of Person of Indian Origin Card (PIO Card) Scheme, 2002,
namely:—
1. (1) This scheme may be called the Scheme for issuance of Person of Indian Origin Card (PIO
Card) Amendment Scheme, 2014.
(2) It shall come into effect on the date of its publication in the Official Gazette.
2. In the Scheme for issuance of Person of Indian Origin Card (PIO Card) Scheme, 2002,—
(a) for paragraph 6, the following paragraph shall be substituted, namely :—
“6. Validity of PIO Card: A PIO Card issued to an applicant shall be valid for his life time
from the date of its issue provided that such applicant has a valid passport.
Explanation.—For the purpose of this paragraph, it is hereby clarified that a PIO Card which
has been issued prior to the date of publication of this notification shall be deemed to be valid
for life time of its holder subject to the condition that such person has a valid passport.”
(b) In paragraph 9,—
(i) In sub-paragraph (ii), the words and figures “ if his stay on any single visit in India does
not exceed 180 days” shall be omitted;
(ii) sub-paragraph (iii) shall be omitted;
(iii) sub-paragraph (iv) shall be renumbered as sub-paragraph (iii).
VEENA KUMARI MEENA, Jt. Secy
NOTIFICATION
New Delhi, the 30th September, 2014
No. 25024/9/2014-F.I.—In the notification of the Government of India in the Ministry of Home
Affairs number 26011/4/98-F.I dated the 19th August, 2002, published in the Gazette of India, Extraordinary,
Part I, Section 1, dated the 19th August, 2002, the Central Government hereby makes the following
amendments in the Scheme for issuance of Person of Indian Origin Card (PIO Card) Scheme, 2002,
namely:—
1. (1) This scheme may be called the Scheme for issuance of Person of Indian Origin Card (PIO
Card) Amendment Scheme, 2014.
(2) It shall come into effect on the date of its publication in the Official Gazette.
2. In the Scheme for issuance of Person of Indian Origin Card (PIO Card) Scheme, 2002,—
(a) for paragraph 6, the following paragraph shall be substituted, namely :—
“6. Validity of PIO Card: A PIO Card issued to an applicant shall be valid for his life time
from the date of its issue provided that such applicant has a valid passport.
Explanation.—For the purpose of this paragraph, it is hereby clarified that a PIO Card which
has been issued prior to the date of publication of this notification shall be deemed to be valid
for life time of its holder subject to the condition that such person has a valid passport.”
(b) In paragraph 9,—
(i) In sub-paragraph (ii), the words and figures “ if his stay on any single visit in India does
not exceed 180 days” shall be omitted;
(ii) sub-paragraph (iii) shall be omitted;
(iii) sub-paragraph (iv) shall be renumbered as sub-paragraph (iii).
VEENA KUMARI MEENA, Jt. Secy
Apr 7, 2015, 8:29 am
#3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: ORD
Posts: 746
http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2...om-pio-to-oci/
As long as your PIO was issued on or before Jan 8 2015 there is no need to switch to OCI. No stickers are issued in India. At VABB there is a sign before immigration that says PIO are valid life long.
As long as your PIO was issued on or before Jan 8 2015 there is no need to switch to OCI. No stickers are issued in India. At VABB there is a sign before immigration that says PIO are valid life long.
Apr 7, 2015, 9:20 am
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP (One World Emerald), Hilton Gld, Marriot Slvr
Posts: 252
Thanks for your quick replies.
The following language on CKGS' website got me confused (http://www.in.ckgs.us/pio.shtml)
"
OCI in lieu of PIO card:
"
The following language on CKGS' website got me confused (http://www.in.ckgs.us/pio.shtml)
"
OCI in lieu of PIO card:
- Existing valid PIO cardholders must apply for OCI card under OCI in lieu of PIO card category.
- Consular fee for this OCI category is Gratis.
- Applicants will be required to pay CKGS service fee, Indian Community Welfare Fund Fee (ICWF) and fee for any other optional services availed.
- Initially for a period of 3 months until 17 June, 2015, submission of the application for OCI card in lieu of PIO card will be voluntary.
- However, after the initial period of 3 months from 18 June 2015, it will be made mandatory.
"
Apr 7, 2015, 2:05 pm
#5
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,168
The German site says:
https://www.indianembassy.de/pages.php?id=17
The validity of PIO cards is life long
All the PIO cards issued since inception would be deemed as OCI cards. However holders of PIO cards may also apply for grant of OCI cards in lieu of their PIO of their PIO cards, if they so desire.
Endorsements of new Passport number can be done on the existing valid PIO card.
All the PIO cards issued since inception would be deemed as OCI cards. However holders of PIO cards may also apply for grant of OCI cards in lieu of their PIO of their PIO cards, if they so desire.
Endorsements of new Passport number can be done on the existing valid PIO card.
Apr 10, 2015, 5:33 am
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: India
Programs: Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Trident Plat, DL Diamond, AI Maharajah
Posts: 29,678
pio cards work absolutely fine....no need to change....i have tons of relatives who have them & have been using them for years without any issues....
Apr 15, 2015, 12:58 pm
#7
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: ORD
Posts: 746
May 25, 2015, 12:18 pm
#8
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 232
CGI Houston has this wordings now , May 25th 1:00 pm CST (http://www.cgihouston.org/news/display/111)
..and this from CGI San francisco
Important Notice: OCI in lieu of PIO CardMay 22, 2015 Consulate General of India, San Francisco
22 May 2015
It has been brought to our attention that rumors are spreading among Indian Diaspora community members that PIO card holders are not able to travel to India with PIO CARD after June 18th, 2015. 2. As you are all aware that the Government of India has withdrawn the PIO Card scheme and replaced it with OCI scheme for all Indian origin US passport holders. As part of the exercise of bringing about an uniformity in the scheme, all PIO card holders were intimated to get their PIO card converted into OCI card at the earliest as per instructions issued by the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA). As per these earlier instructions, initially for a period of 3 months, the submission of the application for OCI card in lieu of PIO card was voluntary. However, after the initial period of three months, the conversion of the cards was to be made mandatory. The persons were to apply for OCI card in lieu of PIO card only at https://passport.gov.in/oci. 3. Considering the concerns and issues related to this conversion from PIO card to OCI card, it has been decided that PIO cards already issued continue to be valid documents. Applying for OCI cards in lieu of PIO cards at the website indicated above will be optional for the applicant until further instructions. All concerned are hereby informed that there is no deadline for conversion from PIO card to OCI cards. However, we urge all PIO card holders to apply for change to OCI cards for uniformity sake. However, when passports are changed / renewed, applicants may apply for miscellaneous services to update their passport details in the OCI cards. 4. As conveyed earlier, endorsements stating that existing PIO cards are valid for life would be made at the first immigration point with which the card holder comes into contact, be it an Indian Mission, an FRRO or an immigration check-point. These endorsements/stamps would, however, not be mandatory. - See more at: http://www.cgisf.org/notice/display/....cwxWeR4d.dpuf
Consulate General of India
Houston
OCI in lieu of PIO – updated instructions
This is in continuation of our Press Release dated 13 April 2015 on the above subject.
2. Based on feedback from PIO card holders about the difficulties faced in adhering to the deadline of 17 June 2015 for applying for an OCI card in lieu of PIO card, it has now been decided and conveyed on 20 May 2015 that the deadline of 17 June 2015 for applying for an OCI card in lieu of PIO card has been done away with. Applying for OCI cards in lieu of PIO cards at https://passport.gov.in/oci will be optional until further instructions from the Ministry of Home Affairs, though PIO card holders are encouraged to do so.
3. PIO card holders can travel to India on the basis of their valid PIO card and valid foreign passport.
- See more at: http://www.cgihouston.org/news/displ....P4wKNsMb.dpuf
Houston
OCI in lieu of PIO – updated instructions
This is in continuation of our Press Release dated 13 April 2015 on the above subject.
2. Based on feedback from PIO card holders about the difficulties faced in adhering to the deadline of 17 June 2015 for applying for an OCI card in lieu of PIO card, it has now been decided and conveyed on 20 May 2015 that the deadline of 17 June 2015 for applying for an OCI card in lieu of PIO card has been done away with. Applying for OCI cards in lieu of PIO cards at https://passport.gov.in/oci will be optional until further instructions from the Ministry of Home Affairs, though PIO card holders are encouraged to do so.
3. PIO card holders can travel to India on the basis of their valid PIO card and valid foreign passport.
- See more at: http://www.cgihouston.org/news/displ....P4wKNsMb.dpuf
Important Notice: OCI in lieu of PIO CardMay 22, 2015 Consulate General of India, San Francisco
22 May 2015
It has been brought to our attention that rumors are spreading among Indian Diaspora community members that PIO card holders are not able to travel to India with PIO CARD after June 18th, 2015. 2. As you are all aware that the Government of India has withdrawn the PIO Card scheme and replaced it with OCI scheme for all Indian origin US passport holders. As part of the exercise of bringing about an uniformity in the scheme, all PIO card holders were intimated to get their PIO card converted into OCI card at the earliest as per instructions issued by the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA). As per these earlier instructions, initially for a period of 3 months, the submission of the application for OCI card in lieu of PIO card was voluntary. However, after the initial period of three months, the conversion of the cards was to be made mandatory. The persons were to apply for OCI card in lieu of PIO card only at https://passport.gov.in/oci. 3. Considering the concerns and issues related to this conversion from PIO card to OCI card, it has been decided that PIO cards already issued continue to be valid documents. Applying for OCI cards in lieu of PIO cards at the website indicated above will be optional for the applicant until further instructions. All concerned are hereby informed that there is no deadline for conversion from PIO card to OCI cards. However, we urge all PIO card holders to apply for change to OCI cards for uniformity sake. However, when passports are changed / renewed, applicants may apply for miscellaneous services to update their passport details in the OCI cards. 4. As conveyed earlier, endorsements stating that existing PIO cards are valid for life would be made at the first immigration point with which the card holder comes into contact, be it an Indian Mission, an FRRO or an immigration check-point. These endorsements/stamps would, however, not be mandatory. - See more at: http://www.cgisf.org/notice/display/....cwxWeR4d.dpuf
Last edited by ftbargain; May 25, 2015 at 12:29 pm
Jun 5, 2015, 1:21 pm
#10
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,632
I am a former Indian citizen with an OCI card. My spouse has a spousal PIO card. While current PIO cards still work, holders can have it replaced with an OCI card for free (except a $20 Cox & Kings service fee). We fell for this too-good-to-be-true "FREE offer". Like many free offers, it was bait-and-switch.
The GoI web pages and the web-fillable application form list the documents required---almost nothing is required (reasonable since it is essentially a 1-to-1 exchange). CKGS lists many more documents required. We supplied everything that CGKS listed, including the original PIO card (the consulate web page says submit only a copy, but CKGS says submit the original).
As soon as they received the application, CKGS e-mailed us with a list of additional demands. (Note that the instructions make clear that the Indian govt has the right to request additional documents, but these demands were made by CKGS, not the consulate, because the application was never forwarded to the consulate.) They now wanted all documents required for a fresh OCI application. They wanted us to 'provide a notarized certificate that we live together', which is apparently not the same as a marriage certificate. (This was not required at the time of the original PIO application in 2011.) CKGS also wanted me to pay them $45 to renounce MY Indian citizenship. (Apparently this is a new requirement---I switched citizenship way back in the 1990s, so it was not required at the time of my spouse's PIO application in 2011. Note that I am not the applicant for PIO-to-OCI, my spouse is.)
We wrote back saying we would not supply documents that were not required according to GoI instructions or CKGS's own web page checklist. We requested CKGS to return the PIO card.
That was five weeks ago. They have not responded at all in spite of e-mails and phone calls. Apparently they have confiscated the PIO card, although they don't say that either; they just don't say anything. The CKGS phone operators are very polite, they "escalate" and "start a case" but nothing ever happens.
It is impossible to contact the Indian consulate by phone, but we wrote to them using their web form and also via fax, asking for their help in dealing with Cox & Kings. No response.
I thought this might be useful to others who might be lured into applying for a 'free' exchange of their PIO for an OCI.
The GoI web pages and the web-fillable application form list the documents required---almost nothing is required (reasonable since it is essentially a 1-to-1 exchange). CKGS lists many more documents required. We supplied everything that CGKS listed, including the original PIO card (the consulate web page says submit only a copy, but CKGS says submit the original).
As soon as they received the application, CKGS e-mailed us with a list of additional demands. (Note that the instructions make clear that the Indian govt has the right to request additional documents, but these demands were made by CKGS, not the consulate, because the application was never forwarded to the consulate.) They now wanted all documents required for a fresh OCI application. They wanted us to 'provide a notarized certificate that we live together', which is apparently not the same as a marriage certificate. (This was not required at the time of the original PIO application in 2011.) CKGS also wanted me to pay them $45 to renounce MY Indian citizenship. (Apparently this is a new requirement---I switched citizenship way back in the 1990s, so it was not required at the time of my spouse's PIO application in 2011. Note that I am not the applicant for PIO-to-OCI, my spouse is.)
We wrote back saying we would not supply documents that were not required according to GoI instructions or CKGS's own web page checklist. We requested CKGS to return the PIO card.
That was five weeks ago. They have not responded at all in spite of e-mails and phone calls. Apparently they have confiscated the PIO card, although they don't say that either; they just don't say anything. The CKGS phone operators are very polite, they "escalate" and "start a case" but nothing ever happens.
It is impossible to contact the Indian consulate by phone, but we wrote to them using their web form and also via fax, asking for their help in dealing with Cox & Kings. No response.
I thought this might be useful to others who might be lured into applying for a 'free' exchange of their PIO for an OCI.
Last edited by SeeBuyFly; Jun 5, 2015 at 1:43 pm
Jun 5, 2015, 3:42 pm
#11
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
I am a former Indian citizen with an OCI card. My spouse has a spousal PIO card. While current PIO cards still work, holders can have it replaced with an OCI card for free (except a $20 Cox & Kings service fee). We fell for this too-good-to-be-true "FREE offer". Like many free offers, it was bait-and-switch.
The GoI web pages and the web-fillable application form list the documents required---almost nothing is required (reasonable since it is essentially a 1-to-1 exchange). CKGS lists many more documents required. We supplied everything that CGKS listed, including the original PIO card (the consulate web page says submit only a copy, but CKGS says submit the original).
As soon as they received the application, CKGS e-mailed us with a list of additional demands. (Note that the instructions make clear that the Indian govt has the right to request additional documents, but these demands were made by CKGS, not the consulate, because the application was never forwarded to the consulate.) They now wanted all documents required for a fresh OCI application. They wanted us to 'provide a notarized certificate that we live together', which is apparently not the same as a marriage certificate. (This was not required at the time of the original PIO application in 2011.) CKGS also wanted me to pay them $45 to renounce MY Indian citizenship. (Apparently this is a new requirement---I switched citizenship way back in the 1990s, so it was not required at the time of my spouse's PIO application in 2011. Note that I am not the applicant for PIO-to-OCI, my spouse is.)
We wrote back saying we would not supply documents that were not required according to GoI instructions or CKGS's own web page checklist. We requested CKGS to return the PIO card.
That was five weeks ago. They have not responded at all in spite of e-mails and phone calls. Apparently they have confiscated the PIO card, although they don't say that either; they just don't say anything. The CKGS phone operators are very polite, they "escalate" and "start a case" but nothing ever happens.
It is impossible to contact the Indian consulate by phone, but we wrote to them using their web form and also via fax, asking for their help in dealing with Cox & Kings. No response.
I thought this might be useful to others who might be lured into applying for a 'free' exchange of their PIO for an OCI.
The GoI web pages and the web-fillable application form list the documents required---almost nothing is required (reasonable since it is essentially a 1-to-1 exchange). CKGS lists many more documents required. We supplied everything that CGKS listed, including the original PIO card (the consulate web page says submit only a copy, but CKGS says submit the original).
As soon as they received the application, CKGS e-mailed us with a list of additional demands. (Note that the instructions make clear that the Indian govt has the right to request additional documents, but these demands were made by CKGS, not the consulate, because the application was never forwarded to the consulate.) They now wanted all documents required for a fresh OCI application. They wanted us to 'provide a notarized certificate that we live together', which is apparently not the same as a marriage certificate. (This was not required at the time of the original PIO application in 2011.) CKGS also wanted me to pay them $45 to renounce MY Indian citizenship. (Apparently this is a new requirement---I switched citizenship way back in the 1990s, so it was not required at the time of my spouse's PIO application in 2011. Note that I am not the applicant for PIO-to-OCI, my spouse is.)
We wrote back saying we would not supply documents that were not required according to GoI instructions or CKGS's own web page checklist. We requested CKGS to return the PIO card.
That was five weeks ago. They have not responded at all in spite of e-mails and phone calls. Apparently they have confiscated the PIO card, although they don't say that either; they just don't say anything. The CKGS phone operators are very polite, they "escalate" and "start a case" but nothing ever happens.
It is impossible to contact the Indian consulate by phone, but we wrote to them using their web form and also via fax, asking for their help in dealing with Cox & Kings. No response.
I thought this might be useful to others who might be lured into applying for a 'free' exchange of their PIO for an OCI.
Jun 6, 2015, 3:10 am
#12
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM-SIN-EWR
Programs: UA*G (1K again), Sixt Plat, *was*: SQ QPP01 & SK EBS/EBG, LH SEN, AA EXP, 9wPlat
Posts: 8,606
Send me a EM or PM through FT - I can try get this sorted out if possible by contacting my friends in C&K.
Jun 6, 2015, 6:12 am
#13
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 232
As I'm flying to India on the last week of June, I was about to bite the bullet and apply for the PIO conversion. Fortunately, they made it optional at the end of May. That list of documents they are asking for is....humongous. Ideally, they should have asked only for a recent photo, recent utility bill to prove your address , nominal fee to make a digital card only. They say its 'FREE', but the amount of time to make all the triplicate copies with notaries and blah..blah will cost at least 2 days of work time.
Jun 12, 2015, 11:49 am
#14
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,632
I am a former Indian citizen with an OCI card. My spouse has a spousal PIO card. While current PIO cards still work, holders can have it replaced with an OCI card for free (except a $20 Cox & Kings service fee). We fell for this too-good-to-be-true "FREE offer". Like many free offers, it was bait-and-switch...
The end result is that while GoI keeps 'encouraging' people to convert, and keeps floating deadlines by which people might be required to convert, the government and its contractors have a built-in preference for increasing amounts of paperwork, countersigned, rubber-stamped and in triplicate. Thus PIO-to-OCI conversion, which should be automatic, takes more paperwork than the original PIO did.
Jun 24, 2015, 3:24 pm
#15
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold (OW Emerald) & Jet Airways - Thank goodness i never got started.......most awful FF program
Posts: 2,385
Here is an update of the worthlessness of an OCI status.
Despite being registered as an OCI for nearly 10 years, I recently started a new job that requires travelling to India for a very specific reason. I thought that my OCI status, which is regulated under the Citizenship Act of India, would suffice as I have a multi-entry, multi-purpose lifelong entitlement to enter and reside in India.
It turns out that this is not quite so. I now hold a valid OCI registration certificate and a valid visa. Luckily, I also hold 2 passports so that the OCI vignette and the visa are in each.
India - Make your mind up? What am I, a citizen under the Citizenship Act (albeit a 2nd class without all the rights of a sole Indian national) or a foreigner when it suits them?
Despite being registered as an OCI for nearly 10 years, I recently started a new job that requires travelling to India for a very specific reason. I thought that my OCI status, which is regulated under the Citizenship Act of India, would suffice as I have a multi-entry, multi-purpose lifelong entitlement to enter and reside in India.
It turns out that this is not quite so. I now hold a valid OCI registration certificate and a valid visa. Luckily, I also hold 2 passports so that the OCI vignette and the visa are in each.
India - Make your mind up? What am I, a citizen under the Citizenship Act (albeit a 2nd class without all the rights of a sole Indian national) or a foreigner when it suits them?