hailstorm

They would have data as to how many of the DSUs were being used after a failed challenge.

If, as I suspect, the answer is "on average, less than one per person", then there wouldn't be any need to experiment.

swag

If it makes some of you feel better, let me chime in as the opposite kind of Diamond challenger.

I have Marriott Platinum earned the hard way, over 100 nights last year. I'm currently on a two-weeks-a-month travel schedule, which would mean a similar number for 2015 if it continues. I don't think I'd had a paid night in a Hyatt (excluding Priceline/Hotwire bids) in a decade or more. But when the Marriott properties in the area had higher-than-normal rates for August, I started to look around, and found the Diamond challenge.

I completed the challenge successfully in about 6 weeks. All stays at a Hyatt House, so no DSU, no upgrades, no lounge access. My Diamond status netted me some extra redeemable points, and the Elite Rate saved a few bucks on 2 of the stays. That's it so far for benefits. I'm now enrolled for the 50K bonus, so sticking with Hyatt at least for now. Next week's stay is at a Hyatt Hotel, but no lounge and no suites available. I suppose I'll get breakfast.

So thanks to the challenge, Hyatt has a new customer, a frequent traveler who will at least consider Hyatt brand hotels for the next 18 months.

3rdworldresident

i thought exactly the same as yours. thank you.

[as a very poor 3rd-world resident, i don't know how to express my thought in English correctly]

Mary2e

I've posted my thoughts before in other threads, and they are pretty much the same as Peter's, except I wouldn't give out DSUs until after the challenge is complete. I'm also ok with giving 1 DSU.

The impact to me has been pretty big... the properties which I go regularly - as in at least once or twice a year, are aspirational and lots of people are doing the challenge soley to get suites at these properties.

The result is that I have to rely on relationships made over the years of frequenting these properties to get a suite - and sometimes it's not even a decent suite - because these properties are over-run with these people who may never show up again.

While I'm sure Hyatt has acquired some people who actually will use the product, the constant pushing by the bloggers for the credit card free nights as well as the DSUs has made it very difficult for their loyal patrons to remain such.

Cohall

How were you able to confirm that the 'decent' suites were filled with those doing a diamond challenge, and if they were on a challenge, that they never planned/succeeded in becoming a diamond member at the end of the trial and were doing the trial with sole intent of getting upgraded one time at that particular hotel?

I doubt that even hotel management would look up who of those people are on a challenge, much less know whether they end up being converted to a long term loyal Hyatt patron...which is the whole point of the program anyway.

I'm willing to bet that the suites are filled up 95% of the time with people exactly like, or similar to, yourself. Are you suggesting that you personally, and those like you, only get 1 DSU per year, so that your odds of using it are better?

Alternatively, they might be filled with people who actually paid for their suite. I know its crazy, but some people actually do that.

We sometimes forget that us Flyertalkers live in a microcosm where what we think is common knowledge, 99% of the rest of the world has never heard of. I believe this may hold true for the Diamond challenge, and that the vast majority of guests have no idea such a thing exists, much less have ever applied for it with sole purpose of exploiting it for the DSUs for a single stay. I won't pretend to have facts to back up that assumption, but I do believe it's true.

Mary2e

Actually, the hotels told me that they were under a great deal of pressure from DSUs and free nights in general. They tightened up suite availability and stopped giving nicer suites even if they were empty. The base suite is now given on a DSU or even points when in the past at slow times nicer suites were given.

I don't know if people are on a challenge or not, but it seems pretty odd to me that when the blogs started pumping Hyatt and the challenge, the suites and upgrades started to dry up at the aspirational properties.

allset2travel

Very well said.

Cohall

You're inferring a correlation where there is no proof of one. Odds are just as good, and likely better, that those aspirational properties/suites are filled with people just like you. Committed, loyal Hyatt stayers looking to pamper themselves and as a reward of all of the nights they've spent staying at Hyatts on a regular basis. Are you not using free nights and DSUs when you book these aspirational hotels? Do you think you are the only person with the same intent and rationale for use of your Hyatt points at those nicer properties?

I made my point in my original post, but clearly people must see that the impact of DSUs from the Diamond challenge by those who never stay at a Hyatt again are in the extreme minority and likely have very little or no impact on you. On the other hand, Hyatt clearly understands that as a marketing tool, it accomplishes their goals of attracting a group that becomes loyal to the brand, and the return for them is greater than the investment. They would have no reason to keep running the promotion, for several years now, if that weren't the case.

Mary2e

Sorry, but I'm not going to get into an argument over our differences of opinion.

You have yours, I have mine, plus conversations with staff I've known for a long time.

Things suddenly have changed, and it started with the advent of the credit card nights, constant challenges, and hawking on the blogs.

If you feel differently, more power to you. Like I said, I'm not going to argue my opinion, which is shared by several others in this thread, as yours is by others as well.

RTW1

That's exactly it.... It's not a generic thing but some of the properties do seem to be overrun with Diamonds or those spending their free nights. Pretty obvious to me as well this started with the introduction of the credit card, the bloggers pushing it and the more liberal challenge rules where one can now aply multiple times. And that HH gold status with a credit card doesn't help either.

So I think we can all agree after so many posts that it's probably a good deal for Hyatt GP since some of those on a challenge tend to stick and it does bring in additional revenue (also since most if the costs will be paid by the properties, not GP). But for some regular Diamonds staying at some of the more asperational properties where benefits have been reduced, more Diamonds and more DSU's are not a good thing.

And it's hard to deny that some have been those on a challenge, FT and the blogs are proof of that.

So far the effects seem to be limited to a few properties though.

nhwiki

Hey folks, I thought this was Flyertalk, and not “Let’s Defend the Corporation.” While I understand the business reasons why Hyatt wants to acquire new customers, as a long time (notice, I didn’t say loyal, as that quaint notion is so silly as I can’t take anyone who uses it seriously) Hyatt customer, whereas before, at a number of aspirational properties (and Mary2e frequents some of these too), when booking a suite on points it was rare to be given a base suite, and often, for example Kauai, we would get an ocean suite even without using points for one. Now, by policy and practice, it’s the Garden Suite, and that’s it. We’ve been there enough times over the last 15 years to experience the difference. And it’s not only there. And the same is true for many, many properties.

We’ve talked to enough people who work at these properties that we trust their judgment as to what they see, and these long-time employees consistently claim that there is an influx of not only new people (which is, after all, the point of the challenge), but new people boasting to all that they got over on Hyatt. I don’t mind more folks staying at these properties (we can plan ahead just fine), but I am not happy at the erosion of benefits for long-time customers, and would gladly see DSUs only after a successful challenge, when those folks have some skin in the game. I understand why Hyatt has different priorities than some long-time customers, but again, hey, it’s Flyertalk. I think it’s a shame that many properties have changed their policies vis-à-vis suite policies, and I can’t help but think that the proliferation of cheap DSU’s has contributed to both that and the feeding frenzies/alcohol policies at clubs. Jeez, if you’re going to drop some serious money on a vacation, I’m just plain embarrassed for the folks loading up on the now crappy food at most clubs, and so too, the club offerings are watered down. I go in, get some water, and leave or pay for a decent meal. (For the folks who claim the Grand in San Francisco has a great club with decent food, have you ever actually tried to enter the club on a Saturday morning, never mind in the evening anytime close to when the food is brought out?)

I remember free drinks at the Tamaya and Kauai and Waikiki .

GUWonder

Correlation is not causation.

The economy has been recovering strongly in various markets for Hyatt and other major hotel groups. It's no coincidence that promotions in the industry in this market have gotten weaker than they were say 4-10 years ago -- rather demand is strong enough that very generous promotions and other benefits aren't seen as being as useful for the hotels as they used to be, because the hotels can fill up otherwise at the prices the hotels want.

Demand for suites at published prices is up too, and demand for suites from non-challenge Diamond customers is probably up too. Why not blame the economy and regular Diamonds for the increased difficulty in upgrading to suites using certs or points?

Has upgrade availability using the DSUs increased since the cost to upgrade using points was increased? It doesn't appear so for me, so should we blame the Hyatt point devaluation for making it harder to get a suite using a DSU? Such blame would seem ridiculous, right?

Cohall

Fair enough. We're actually mostly in agreement. Just a difference of opinion on the root cause of the strain on the system. I fully agree that it's harder to get nicer upgrades at the better properties than it used to be.

If they do change the challenge as suggested, it will be interesting to see what impact it has on our ability to get those upgrades.

GUWonder

Marginal impact -- if any -- unless the economy collapses again sometime soon.

kmcbrid2

Is there a thread which lists the properties which have been affected and exactly what has been affected?