Programs: Via Preference Premiere, Fairmont Premiere, SPG Gold
Posts: 64
NJUPINTHEAIR - I have no idea why you keep posting, you've made your point that somehow Fairmont grossly miscalculated and they'll loose a ton of money due to cannibalizing room sales etc. Fine. I have one stay booked through this promo and I'll wait and see what others run into when they check in.
The rate I got price matching Expedia for the Fairmont SF was approximately the same as through this deal, it was non-refundable but that doesn't really matter to me.
Perhaps we can end the debate on how badly Fairmont screwed up till we get some solid facts, such as them deciding to withdraw the promo Monday.
I have booked several properties using this deal! I booked in Sonoma Fairmont a Jr. Suite for New Years so you can book more than 90 days out at certain properties! The rate is not valid after Jan. 1st....!
Great catch! They also have limited availability for Labor Day weekend. This also made me realize that this rate can have restrictions with a minimum length of stay. For example, checking in on 9/5/09...
...a 1-night stay on 9/5/09 is not available on the promo rate.
...a 2-night stay offers 1 type of suite.
...a 3-night stay offers 3 types of suites.
Programs: United 1k & all the others + Hotel Diva at many chains
Posts: 439
I love a deal as much as most, but since the Internet post extolling the Fairmont one debated here was pulled from redflagdeals.com, thought why hasn't anyone contacted the original poster over there; so I did.
After thanking him for his post, invited him to come over to FT & see what his original post had generated and maybe join in; here is his response:
"Hi, thanks for your email notifying me of my ad being posted over at FlyerTalk. As much as I would like to get involved in another forum, I think I'll pass. I decided to remove it (from RFD's) for the reason that it has shown such HUGE interest in the original thread I posted here at redflagdeals, and the problems and arguments it was causing (on FT). If someone else has gone out to promote it, and my Booker ID#, so be it."
He is an employee at the Fairmont York and he said that yes, he will get $10 per confirmed stay(s). He wasn't aware of any restrictions from Fairmont on promoting this deal. However, as others have noted on this forum, if this was never Fairmonts' intention, I'm sure the deal will be modified in days to come. No matter what, I think the Fairmont chain will profit from these bookings made in good faith, as will we who have made bookings at fair but discounted rates.
I don't feel that my ethical values are in question because I used this code to book rooms, any more than those who jump on great rates/prices for airline tickets, cars, hotels, etc., shared on other forums here at FT. In fact, I'm looking forward to my 1st stay at the Plaza since renovations were completed. And as others have noted, maybe this flurry of business will get Fairmont to enhance their rewards club...not that getting free Internet as a President Club member isn't appreciated; for me, that alone is worth joining!
Thanks again to our FT OP for this riveting thread!
He is an employee at the Fairmont York and he said that yes, he will get $10 per confirmed stay(s). He wasn't aware of any restrictions from Fairmont on promoting this deal. However, as others have noted on this forum, if this was never Fairmonts' intention, I'm sure the deal will be modified in days to come. No matter what, I think the Fairmont chain will profit from these bookings made in good faith, as will we who have made bookings at fair but discounted rates.
I don't feel that my ethical values are in question because I used this code to book rooms, any more than those who jump on great rates/prices for airline tickets, cars, hotels, etc., shared on other forums here at FT.
Good detective work.
However, you advise that the OP was not aware of any restrictions -- so that allows for the possibility that there are restrictions for its use.
Whether or not you thought it appropriate or not when you booked the rate is between you and your maker, but certainly now it is possible that it might not be.
I agree with your statement that you all should find out in a few days whether it holds or not.
Based on the past usage of that rate, and the fact that from what I can tell, the Fairmont internal memo just sweetned the deal for their employees to advise their friends and family concerning the rate, they may need to change their internal controls fasat, if, indeed, the OP was as clueless as he/she makes themselves out to be.
And, no, I am not attempting to book the Fairmont Orchid.
However, if this is the real deal, and sanctioned by Fairmont, then I will be scouring destinations to book just like the rest of you.
In the meantime, what I have been doing is making reservations for my wife and her sister and mom's trip to Rome.
Like getting SPG to Price match and lower their rates at the 4 Points from 132 Euros to 69 Euros, plus the 2,000 SPG point bonus.
And am now in the process to have Marriott similarly BRG the Flora and reduce the price by approx $125.00/day.
Regards,
NJ
__________________
Great to Know -- Good to Go!
Last edited by NJUPINTHEAIR; Apr 5, 09 at 3:09 pm.
Programs: SPG Gold, Priority Club Platinum, Marriott Gold, Airmiles Gold, AC Fly-Free-Forever Winner
Posts: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcook052
Empty rooms in low season are one thing but this promo, I'm sure Fairmont will be quick to discover, will also work work the other way and will bring down room rates at higher demand times like 4th July weekend, Labour Day, Xmas and New Year's Eve as this promo has no apparent blackout dates. Doesn't that makes as much sense?
BTW your reluctance to join in the online promo bonanza also indicates your cautious which does make sense to me.
Your assumption is somewhat too optimistic. I tried many hotels at prime locations & seasons and I mostly got this response.
"We could not find rate offers to meet your specific preferences. Alternate rates for your requested dates are displayed below"
And the Alternate rates are very high.
You may get lucky and able to book some rooms at prime locations and at prime seasons, but more often than not the NFAF Rates are not available.
Location: HKT ~ Phuket Thailand & YVR Vancouver; UA1K Lightest of the 1KLite's (for'09), BD*Gold, HHonorsGold, SPGPlatinum, Fairmont Plat
Posts: 4,304
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJUPINTHEAIR
At some point, with such deeply discounted rates, you start to cannibalize the rooms that you could have sold at a higher rate, and thereby realize a profit.
Yes, there are instances where a discounted room is sold and the hotel could have realized a higher price for the room. But how is that different than the airlines. They balance the Guarantee of Income at a lower rate with the possibility that at a higher rate the flight goes out with empty seats.
The benefit to the hotels are the guaranteed income... and it looks like with this promotion the genuine income generated will be substantial. The loss may be with a few rooms here and there, but just like airline revenue management, these rooms (or a certain percentage) WERE ALREADY ALLOCATED TO BE AVAILABLE FOR SALE. The hotel may have sold more rooms than expected, but they set their own rates and availibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJUPINTHEAIR
...I would fire her if I worked for the company and this turns out to be contrary to their intentions.
Perhaps you should apply for a job there then. With that attitude, you might find miss the shortlist though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJUPINTHEAIR
With all due respect, you and others are engaging in wishful thinking and self-justification. This permits bookings 90 days out. How do you know what a room will go for 90 days out -- especially entering the busy summer season?
We don't. That's why we trust the hotels own allocation. Their job is to make them availabe. Ours isn't to question, but to book and enjoy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJUPINTHEAIR
I do not know how you can square your view
..."enlightened" execs with this open the flood gates attitude that anyone can be a friend or family member of any employee.
I believe that they will be surprised by the sucess of this promotion. I would hope that they would then see how easy it is to earn the rush of customers coming over in droves when the customer sees a benefit to the transaction. Rinse, Spin, Repeat. I think the person who brainstormed this promotion will be commended on it's success (regardless of if it's extended or not) the popularity of it holds its own weight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJUPINTHEAIR
Furthermore, you mention that this rate is sometimes higher than the non-refundable rate, therefore, many other times, perhaps most times, it is, indeed, lower.
Moreover, was the pre-pay fully refundable or non-refundable like the Fairmont Savers rate that was sometimes higher than the friends and family rate.
The friends and family rate appears to change depending on availibility. It probably has a minimum rate for F&F and if occupancy is higher they raise the rate instead of just saying it's unavailable. If true, this also confirms my opinion that it's a win-win for the hotels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJUPINTHEAIR
Could it have been that most other friends and family rates require strict documentation and that one must produce same at check-in?
NO. The previous rates for F&F needed NO documentation. But a process was required to book.
You may get lucky and able to book some rooms at prime locations and at prime seasons, but more often than not the NFAF Rates are not available.
I wouldn't go so far as to say, "more often than not." It just depends on the property.
It appears to me that there are likely some mistakes out there in the form of NFAF rates being offered during peak dates. If a rate mistake exists, how does Fairmont typically handle it? Would Fairmont handle it on the corporate level, or will it be the responsibility of each hotel?
If booking a mistake rate, do FTers think that it's best to include one of the Booker IDs, or best to leave that field blank? Or do you think it's irrelevant?
Whether it's been a weekend or not, Fairmont's had at least a couple days to react to the viral aspect that this promotion has had. IMO, if they haven't already commented on these reservations, tightened down the availability of these rates, or added text during the booking process to state rules about eligibility for these rates, then they are already approving of them by anyone. Some others here apparently think that Fairmont should at least have the availability of a normal business day to respond.
NJUPINTHEAIR, your points have been made and are clear, and I'm also skeptical about how this will pan out over time. But it appears to me that there's no resolution to this debate until Fairmont has commented or surpassed any reasonable time to comment. I certainly hope that they announce their willingness to honor it unconditionally. I'm very happy with my reservation, and I have one more desired reservation for which I'm still trying to choose dates.
Well the Rose Suite at The Plaza for half off is pretty hard to pass!
A deal is a deal and as always, some are honored and some are not. Either way no biggie. These rates are not necessarily cheap and if Fairmont prefers not to take a grand for 2 days oh well.
For now, should be a nice get away to NYC! Thanks for sharing OP!
I love a deal as much as most, but since the Internet post extolling the Fairmont one debated here was pulled from redflagdeals.com, thought why hasn't anyone contacted the original poster over there; so I did.
After thanking him for his post, invited him to come over to FT & see what his original post had generated and maybe join in; here is his response:
"Hi, thanks for your email notifying me of my ad being posted over at FlyerTalk. As much as I would like to get involved in another forum, I think I'll pass. I decided to remove it (from RFD's) for the reason that it has shown such HUGE interest in the original thread I posted here at redflagdeals, and the problems and arguments it was causing (on FT). If someone else has gone out to promote it, and my Booker ID#, so be it."
He is an employee at the Fairmont York and he said that yes, he will get $10 per confirmed stay(s). He wasn't aware of any restrictions from Fairmont on promoting this deal. However, as others have noted on this forum, if this was never Fairmonts' intention, I'm sure the deal will be modified in days to come. No matter what, I think the Fairmont chain will profit from these bookings made in good faith, as will we who have made bookings at fair but discounted rates.
I don't feel that my ethical values are in question because I used this code to book rooms, any more than those who jump on great rates/prices for airline tickets, cars, hotels, etc., shared on other forums here at FT. In fact, I'm looking forward to my 1st stay at the Plaza since renovations were completed. And as others have noted, maybe this flurry of business will get Fairmont to enhance their rewards club...not that getting free Internet as a President Club member isn't appreciated; for me, that alone is worth joining!
Thanks again to our FT OP for this riveting thread!
I appreciate the input as it adds to the story and we're of pretty much the same mind on this deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cko64
Your assumption is somewhat too optimistic.
Thanks as try and be as optimistic as possible.
I will watch this thread for any further developments but will watch only as I think I've added all I can to the topic. My original intent was to make sure this promo was valid and once it appeared to be to debate its pro's and con's, not get into arguements with fellow FTers.
I have lobbied on the TB forum for a dedicated Fairmont forum and perhaps one upside of this debate is that might become a reality. I've been fortunate enough to have stayed at several Fairmont's in the past few years and really, really like the chain so wish all FTers who are new to the brand to enjoy their time in whatever Fairmont they are staying in.
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2009 Q miles: UA 28166 NW 6818 WS 1008 YouTube Jukebox: ArcadiaGoodbye Is Forever
Folks, come on. If you don't think for a minute that Fairmont knew this was going to happen (spread like wildfire across the internet), then I have a bridge that I'd like to sell you on the below linked Brooklyn Reality Tour.
Click on the link.
I will agree of course with some of the comments, that a SALE of a room at this levels COULD mean lost revenue due to a sacrifice of the room to a POTENTIALLY higher priced sale, but, buuttt,
That would require that there was a supply constraint on these rooms, which there clearly is not (most industry analysts say that hotels are at 20-40% of regular capacity, New York is no exception - Hawaii the same)
Assuming that rates are not below COSTS, then ANY additional revenue is INCREASED revenue for the hotel location.
The bookings at least here on FT, seem OPPORTUNISTIC and not REPLACEMENTS to bookings that would have otherwise taken place. Meaning, this is REVENUE that Fairmont is getting and another lodging firm is NOT getting. Or, this is REVENUE that ANY firm is getting wherease NO firm would have gotten it, adding to INDUSTRY revenue increase at the least.
Barring the case where a hotel has bookings of 70-80%, (which would mean DOUBLE where the industry IS or HAS BEEN a while now) and now has a conference come in, or wedding show up (again, Conferences are being CANCELLED EN MASSE and Weddings are being severly scaled back now) then YES, a hotel COULD LOSE due to opportunity cost, but the GUARANTEED revenue now (sure, people can cancel, but at these rates why would they) is much better than NO REVENUE later.
And, they can continue to have STAFF at reasonable levels, avoiding MORE layoffs, more reduction from suppliers, Shuttering floors and sectors of the hotel (this is happening at a LOT of the hotels I have stayed at during the last three months)
I think, at some point they will saturate their AVAILABLE rooms for this promo (it CLEARLY isn't unilimited since some of the properties I originally checked NOW don't show capacity for those dates, or only show SUITES) then Fairmont is getting what they intented, QUICK pop in bookings, CUSTOMER AWARENESS, Revenue directed TOWARDS Fairmont and not with the other lodging providors that are doing the same now - HYATT and ICH.
