Casino Comps in Macau
Jun 23, 2017, 11:49 am
#16
Join Date: Apr 2001
Programs: Air Krapistan Poop Points "Scooper Level"
Posts: 248
When I say what you value the comps at what I mean is what do you value a suite at? For example if you are given a $1000 a nite suite, but you would normally only pay $150 a night for a regular room, then the suite only has a value of $150. If you would never spend $500 on a bottle of wine, but are given one at dinner it has a value of close to zero.
I remember the rules being good, S17, RSA, DAS etc. Don't remember if Surender was a option.
Saw one of the greatest hands ever at Starworld. My buddy and I are playing at a $1000 HKG minimum table and a guy walks up with chips and starts to play with us. His third hand he bets 8000 and he gets A2 vs. dealer 10. After using the force for about 5 minutes he hits. Draws a 3. Hand is now A23. After another 5 minutes of using the force and a Jedi mind trick he decides that he has enough and stands on his soft 16. Dealer rips over a Jack. The guy starts to mumble to himself and walks away. We look at each other and say how do we get one of these places?
I remember the rules being good, S17, RSA, DAS etc. Don't remember if Surender was a option.
Saw one of the greatest hands ever at Starworld. My buddy and I are playing at a $1000 HKG minimum table and a guy walks up with chips and starts to play with us. His third hand he bets 8000 and he gets A2 vs. dealer 10. After using the force for about 5 minutes he hits. Draws a 3. Hand is now A23. After another 5 minutes of using the force and a Jedi mind trick he decides that he has enough and stands on his soft 16. Dealer rips over a Jack. The guy starts to mumble to himself and walks away. We look at each other and say how do we get one of these places?
Jun 30, 2017, 2:34 am
#17
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 4
i saw this thread on wizardofvegas, just want to add my own 2 cents.
i am a hk guy who go to macau from time to time, and i have interest not just in gambling but also on human aspect of gaming industry and development, and comps is one of those areas.
i don't have a structured analysis to say at this moment, just want to throw out some random thoughts based on my own explorations and learning from others on hk gambling forums:
- as people probably know, macau gaming audience is divided into mass market and junkets. junkets is basically casino outsourcing all the messy aspects of finding mainland chinese customers, taking care of them and managing their credits/debts. For not dealing with these headaches the 6 gaming license operators (and their subsidiaries) provide space and give a heavy cut to the junket clubs. the key things are "dead chips" and rebates and undoubtedly there are many colorful stories in that area, but most people (including me) can seldem look behind the curtain except from their related news appearing on newspapers from time to time.
- re mass market gaming the system is clearer. sands/galaxy/city of dreams/mgm provide descriptions and websites on their comps/membership systems (google and read through them)
sjm does not because its management is backward (stanley ho is 95 and living in a hk private hospital) and their business rely mostly on locals and a lesser-educated mainland chinese clientele
wynn does not because it thinks it is above the other operators, and because it is the best it does not need to offer an attractive comp system (btw i do like wynn and its properties
i am just stating the fact that their attitude is obviously different from the others)
- sands comps system provides the most info and is most extensive simply because it has the largest presence, and also the most number of people passing through its massive casinos.
sands is also the easiest to get comped rooms simply because it has significantly more rooms than others (venetian 3000, cotai central 6000!, parisian 3000) and also sands macau.
- for example to get a comped room in cotai central holiday inn hotel you need 25 points, and 1 point is earned from betting different amount on different games:
slots 460 (because slots has the highest hold and theo, and also because slots are not that popular among chinese gamblers)
sic bo/roulette around 1200
baccarat/blackjack around 3000
- but don't be fooled by the seemingly low 25 points for a comped sands room, it is that low only because sands has more rooms than it knows what to do with. for the other comped items such as food voucher, ferry tickets, non negotiable chips and so on, they still require several dozen points just to start getting them, and need more if any meaningful comps are considered.
- ofcourse comps system changes and it is basically correlated to the chinese economy, at the height of the chinese economic bubble in 2014 casinos had no incentives to attract people because they were making money hand over fist, but now the chinese economy is in much worse shape (reality is way worse than what the chinese communist party propaganda tells the world) casinos are more attuned to the regular joe gamblers.
- there is also the question of new developments, in 2016 we had parisian and wynn cotai, mgm cotai is slated to open this october, sjm cotai next year, cod will open a wacky new tower next year, there are also other future stuff such as louis 13 hotel, galaxy phase 3 and 4, studio city phase 2 etc but those are at least several years ahead.
- all the current casino licenses will expire in 2020 and 2022, and nothing yet has been said by the chinese government even though all the operators are rather anxious on the uncertainy.
there are whispers of power struggles involving factors such as chinese government vs american powers, stemming outflow of capital from mainland china, political management of macau and its people (as an example to the disobedient democracy-wanting hk population), cia spies based in sands/mgm/wynn properties, and other some such tom clancy novel materials...
sorry if my ramblings are all over the place, i am just a guy interested in these stuff and anyone is welcome to communicate in this thread or contact me to talk more.
happy gambling in macau!
i am a hk guy who go to macau from time to time, and i have interest not just in gambling but also on human aspect of gaming industry and development, and comps is one of those areas.
i don't have a structured analysis to say at this moment, just want to throw out some random thoughts based on my own explorations and learning from others on hk gambling forums:
- as people probably know, macau gaming audience is divided into mass market and junkets. junkets is basically casino outsourcing all the messy aspects of finding mainland chinese customers, taking care of them and managing their credits/debts. For not dealing with these headaches the 6 gaming license operators (and their subsidiaries) provide space and give a heavy cut to the junket clubs. the key things are "dead chips" and rebates and undoubtedly there are many colorful stories in that area, but most people (including me) can seldem look behind the curtain except from their related news appearing on newspapers from time to time.
- re mass market gaming the system is clearer. sands/galaxy/city of dreams/mgm provide descriptions and websites on their comps/membership systems (google and read through them)
sjm does not because its management is backward (stanley ho is 95 and living in a hk private hospital) and their business rely mostly on locals and a lesser-educated mainland chinese clientele
wynn does not because it thinks it is above the other operators, and because it is the best it does not need to offer an attractive comp system (btw i do like wynn and its properties
i am just stating the fact that their attitude is obviously different from the others)- sands comps system provides the most info and is most extensive simply because it has the largest presence, and also the most number of people passing through its massive casinos.
sands is also the easiest to get comped rooms simply because it has significantly more rooms than others (venetian 3000, cotai central 6000!, parisian 3000) and also sands macau.
- for example to get a comped room in cotai central holiday inn hotel you need 25 points, and 1 point is earned from betting different amount on different games:
slots 460 (because slots has the highest hold and theo, and also because slots are not that popular among chinese gamblers)
sic bo/roulette around 1200
baccarat/blackjack around 3000
- but don't be fooled by the seemingly low 25 points for a comped sands room, it is that low only because sands has more rooms than it knows what to do with. for the other comped items such as food voucher, ferry tickets, non negotiable chips and so on, they still require several dozen points just to start getting them, and need more if any meaningful comps are considered.
- ofcourse comps system changes and it is basically correlated to the chinese economy, at the height of the chinese economic bubble in 2014 casinos had no incentives to attract people because they were making money hand over fist, but now the chinese economy is in much worse shape (reality is way worse than what the chinese communist party propaganda tells the world) casinos are more attuned to the regular joe gamblers.
- there is also the question of new developments, in 2016 we had parisian and wynn cotai, mgm cotai is slated to open this october, sjm cotai next year, cod will open a wacky new tower next year, there are also other future stuff such as louis 13 hotel, galaxy phase 3 and 4, studio city phase 2 etc but those are at least several years ahead.
- all the current casino licenses will expire in 2020 and 2022, and nothing yet has been said by the chinese government even though all the operators are rather anxious on the uncertainy.
there are whispers of power struggles involving factors such as chinese government vs american powers, stemming outflow of capital from mainland china, political management of macau and its people (as an example to the disobedient democracy-wanting hk population), cia spies based in sands/mgm/wynn properties, and other some such tom clancy novel materials...
sorry if my ramblings are all over the place, i am just a guy interested in these stuff and anyone is welcome to communicate in this thread or contact me to talk more.
happy gambling in macau!
Jul 1, 2017, 2:28 pm
#18
Join Date: Apr 2001
Programs: Air Krapistan Poop Points "Scooper Level"
Posts: 248
When I say what you value the comps at what I mean is what do you value a suite at? For example if you are given a $1000 a nite suite, but you would normally only pay $150 a night for a regular room, then the suite only has a value of $150. If you would never spend $500 on a bottle of wine, but are given one at dinner it has a value of close to zero.
I remember the rules being good, S17, RSA, DAS etc. Don't remember if Surender was a option.
Saw one of the greatest hands ever at Starworld. My buddy and I are playing at a $1000 HKG minimum table and a guy walks up with chips and starts to play with us. His third hand he bets 8000 and he gets A2 vs. dealer 10. After using the force for about 5 minutes he hits. Draws a 3. Hand is now A23. After another 5 minutes of using the force and a Jedi mind trick he decides that he has enough and stands on his soft 16. Dealer rips over a Jack. The guy starts to mumble to himself and walks away. We look at each other and say how do we get one of these places?
I remember the rules being good, S17, RSA, DAS etc. Don't remember if Surender was a option.
Saw one of the greatest hands ever at Starworld. My buddy and I are playing at a $1000 HKG minimum table and a guy walks up with chips and starts to play with us. His third hand he bets 8000 and he gets A2 vs. dealer 10. After using the force for about 5 minutes he hits. Draws a 3. Hand is now A23. After another 5 minutes of using the force and a Jedi mind trick he decides that he has enough and stands on his soft 16. Dealer rips over a Jack. The guy starts to mumble to himself and walks away. We look at each other and say how do we get one of these places?
200k 0.7 cash 0.1 comp
1m 0.8 cash 0.1 comp
5m 0.9 cash 0.1 comp
10m 1.0 cash 0.1 comp
20m 1.1 cash 0.1 comp
I can't believe how hard it is to get info about these programs. I also sent an email to several Manila properties. Only Solaire has gotten back to me rates are in PHP:
500k 1.1 cash 0.1 comp
2.5m 1.2 cash 0.1 comp
5m 1.25 cash 0.1 comp
Free room is given at a roll of 1.2 m. There is a food menu complimentary on the casino floor and transfer to and from the airport is included. Sounds like a much better deal than Macau.
Jul 1, 2017, 3:19 pm
#19
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 4
I sent email out to 4 different hotels and 3 different junket reps inquiring about their rolling chip programs. Only the MGM replied. Rates are in HKG:
200k 0.7 cash 0.1 comp
1m 0.8 cash 0.1 comp
5m 0.9 cash 0.1 comp
10m 1.0 cash 0.1 comp
20m 1.1 cash 0.1 comp
I can't believe how hard it is to get info about these programs. I also sent an email to several Manila properties. Only Solaire has gotten back to me rates are in PHP:
500k 1.1 cash 0.1 comp
2.5m 1.2 cash 0.1 comp
5m 1.25 cash 0.1 comp
Free room is given at a roll of 1.2 m. There is a food menu complimentary on the casino floor and transfer to and from the airport is included. Sounds like a much better deal than Macau.
200k 0.7 cash 0.1 comp
1m 0.8 cash 0.1 comp
5m 0.9 cash 0.1 comp
10m 1.0 cash 0.1 comp
20m 1.1 cash 0.1 comp
I can't believe how hard it is to get info about these programs. I also sent an email to several Manila properties. Only Solaire has gotten back to me rates are in PHP:
500k 1.1 cash 0.1 comp
2.5m 1.2 cash 0.1 comp
5m 1.25 cash 0.1 comp
Free room is given at a roll of 1.2 m. There is a food menu complimentary on the casino floor and transfer to and from the airport is included. Sounds like a much better deal than Macau.
i am not surprised at the lack of responses to your enquiries. the fact is, macau is very much a chinese-operated place that cater to a chinese audience.
i would guess they seldom see inquiries in english from westerners. most of them probably have little experience, and have no more than basic english skills, dealing with international customers.
mgm replied to you because they are obviously an american international corp so they have better ability in this regard.
especially at the junket level, where most are relatively small operations employing people who are... and i say this frankly, minimally educated and often with organized criminal ties.
anyway here is a website that tell you a bit more about dead chip rebate rates, though it is a little outdated:
http://mavenofmacau.com/gambling/VIP-rates-comps
re manila, i hope to put together a trip to the new okada manila sometime in the future, it looks to be the most upscale casino in phillipines, and i have faith in its japanese management to put together a good place.
Jul 1, 2017, 3:28 pm
#20
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: トロント
Programs: IHG Gold
Posts: 4,820
When I say what you value the comps at what I mean is what do you value a suite at? For example if you are given a $1000 a nite suite, but you would normally only pay $150 a night for a regular room, then the suite only has a value of $150. If you would never spend $500 on a bottle of wine, but are given one at dinner it has a value of close to zero.
Surely the suite is nicer than the room?
If a friend gives me a $500 bottle of scotch and I think to myself that I would never spend money like that on scotch, is it suddenly worth zero?
Since this is FT, does it mean that if EVA serves Krug on the flight and I partake in a few glasses, it has a value of zero since I would not spend my own money on Krug?
Jul 2, 2017, 12:14 pm
#21
Join Date: Apr 2001
Programs: Air Krapistan Poop Points "Scooper Level"
Posts: 248
[QUOTE=nydave11;28478670]When I say what you value the comps at what I mean is what do you value a suite at? For example if you are given a $1000 a nite suite, but you would normally only pay $150 a night for a regular room, then the suite only has a value of $150. If you would never spend $500 on a bottle of wine, but are given one at dinner it has a value of close to zero.
Of course the bottle has value, but how much? Lets say that you were willing to pay $150 for a regular room. At check in you are offered an upgrade to a suite for $25. Would you take it? Probably. Let's say that the upgrade is offered for $350. Do you take it? It's half off the "rack rate" but is it a deal? Doubtful. The better example using EVA is if they said to you " You can have as much of our cheap no name but ok champagne, or for $15 a glass you can have Krug" What do you do?
I am an advantage player. The name of the game is how much can I get in hard comps as soft comps have a value of less than 100%. If I can get a ferry ticket for free that is better value for me than a room upgrade. If I can get event tickets that I can sell that is much better value than expensive food and beverage. Multiple airfare reimbursements in Las Vegas is a strong hard comp. I can play break even, but receive an invite to a drawing with a theo of $1000 ( 100 invitees with a payout of $100,000) etc.
Of course the bottle has value, but how much? Lets say that you were willing to pay $150 for a regular room. At check in you are offered an upgrade to a suite for $25. Would you take it? Probably. Let's say that the upgrade is offered for $350. Do you take it? It's half off the "rack rate" but is it a deal? Doubtful. The better example using EVA is if they said to you " You can have as much of our cheap no name but ok champagne, or for $15 a glass you can have Krug" What do you do?
I am an advantage player. The name of the game is how much can I get in hard comps as soft comps have a value of less than 100%. If I can get a ferry ticket for free that is better value for me than a room upgrade. If I can get event tickets that I can sell that is much better value than expensive food and beverage. Multiple airfare reimbursements in Las Vegas is a strong hard comp. I can play break even, but receive an invite to a drawing with a theo of $1000 ( 100 invitees with a payout of $100,000) etc.