pinniped

I use the accessible one all the time. At our office, it has a little ledge next to the toilet, so that's where you find all of the good reading material. People generously leave all sorts of magazines and newspapers there. ^



And to answer the obvious follow-up question: yes, I would yield the accessible loo to someone who really needed it. I might ask 'em to shove Wired Magazine under the stall wall though.

LemonThrower

There are more than 1 way to look at this.

First, I have only stayed in an accessible room on a priceline stay.

I don't place any greater or lesser value on those rooms.

But if a hotel has them available for a lower price, then the hotel must think they have plenty available. Maybe that is why they come up on priceline. I personally have never seen them at a lower price, but in such circumstances I would have no qualms taking the accessible room. In contrast, I would have qualms if there was a premium price because then the hotel probably figures they are in short supply.

If an accessible room comes up as the last available room, I see no reason to pass on a room that I need if I reserve it before someone else (who happens to be disabled) does. If anything, you are hurting a hotel by not taking the room, and businesses such as this who make voluntary investments to help people with disabilities are the ones that should be patronized.

A hotel room is not like a close parking spot. If the close parking spots fill up, than a person with diabilities must park further away. In a hotel, its not like they are going to sleep on the roof or something--they either get a room or they don't.

So if the price is low, I think its reasonable to assume there are plenty of accessible rooms available.

If its the last room, you have to ask yourself should you pass on the room and treat someone with disabilities differently because of their disability? I can see arguments on both sides but I think things work out better in a market economy when everyone acts in their own rational interest.

Sweet Willie

^ then we are on the same page.

I believe there were some in this thread who would not book an accessible room for the lower price as they felt they were "taking it away" from a person who needed it.

There should not be a lower price for accessible rooms, simply a means to book one if needed.

pdhenry

I'm OK with Hilton decding how they want to run their business.

Without a lower rate for an accessible room I suspect that fewer of them would be rented.

craz

Havent been here for a few days Guess I missed some nice posts.

Any way, to put it simply, Had that Hil Prop been the only game in that city, you might have a point. However, just as I might look for a Hil prop and if I see I can stay elsewhere for alot less I'll book elsewhere. Why cause the Props had alot of reservations that filled up the place, yet is it fair for Non-HH people to stay at a Hil prop, when maybe HH people would like to do so?

My Point is that the person who wanted or needed that room, could have booked elsewhere. Maybe they just wanted the HH credit, maybe it was the cheapest accessible room in that City for that night.

If I had to go thru it again Id do the samething. I dont see that I denied anyone anything Especially since the DC area has more Hotels and rooms then they know what to do with.

craz

My parents both have disabilities and both have the Blue parking card.

There is a difference and a big one at that. 1st its not illegeal to book an accessible room, it is Illegal to park in a Handi-cap space.

I guess you feel that if All the Handi-cap spaces are taken that someone with the permitt should wait till 1 frees up, rather then park in a reg spot?

Are you willing to pay any Hotel for these rooms if they dont sell 'em? If the rate difference is high enough and at times it is, I will stay elsewhere, thereby causing that Hotel to have a non-Rented room for the night. Is that fair? Remember , its not against the law for just anyone to stay in an accessible room. A number of Hotels use these for their PriceLine customers.

I prefer a King Bed, the past 3 nights 2 Double Beds were between $20-$35 cheaper , so I took a room with Double Beds.

If the rates on all the rooms are the same I wouldnt book an accessible room, when its alot cheaper or the only Non-smoking room left Ill book it. Im not taking anything away from anyone else, as I dont recall ever staying in a Hotel where that was the only place in town or for miles around.

mahasamatman

The scenario I can see is this. Let's say Hilton has 100 rooms available at some rate X - 98 standard, and 2 accessible - and some number of rooms at some higher rates Y, Z, ... They sell out the 98 standard rooms at X, leaving the 2 accessible rooms at that rate, and all the standard rooms at rate Y (and higher). Thus, it appears that the accessible room is "cheaper", where it's just that the lower rate buckets have sold out on the standard rooms.

Katja

Well, it probably wasn't because of you specifically, but I've certainly been unable to book at some hotels on some days because the accessible rooms were all already booked, sometimes by people who had no need of them.

And to the poster who felt that those of us who need wheelchair accessible rooms should book earlier - I'm a business traveler, like many people here. Sometimes I have advance notice, sometimes I'm asked to travel tomorrow. Should I tell my employer that I'm unable to travel unless I've got a week's notice? I don't think so.

The fact that I use a wheelchair does in fact mean that there is a *much* smaller stock of rooms for me to choose from than there is for you.

cordelli

I work for a non profit where most of our clients are or some day may be disabled. Do I use the accessible toilet in the office? If there is nobody in the office who is handicapped at the time, yes. If there is anybody in the office, even if I just passed them going the other way at the other end of the hall and there is no way they could get to the bathroom before I'm done, not a chance.

It's the same thing with the rooms.

I wound never, ever take one away or keep one if anybody else needed it. If I was asked in the middle of the night to switch for somebody, I would, and I make it very clear to the people up front not to hesitate.

But that has never hapended.

And personally, given the choice, I like the bigger bathroom, don't really care about the few feet it loses in the bed side.

Katja

How would you know that someone was waiting who really needed it?

I hear this a lot - "Oh, I'm just parked in the permit space for a minute; I'll move if someone needs it" - well, I know there are 2 permit spaces in that lot, I drive by and see that both spaces are occupied and so I go to another lot further away. You never knew that I was there and needed that space, because I'm much too polite to drive up behind you and honk at you.

"Oh, I'll get out of this stall if someone needs it" - when I'm at DIA and go to FIVE RESTROOMS IN A ROW (true story) looking for one in which the accessible stall is not occupied, I assume that the person using it needs it, just like me (*especially* if they are taking a long time), and I'll either wait my turn or try to find another one. I'm much too polite to rattle the door and say "Hey! I'm disabled and I bet you're not, so come out there!" My mother raised me better than that.

pdhenry

People who aren't in wheelchairs have to wait for bathrooms too sometimes. It happens.

Katja

I understand that. And I understand that people (in and out of wheelchairs) have to park in undesireable spaces and have to settle for hotel rooms that they may not have wanted. Resources are scarce.

The difference is that while you have the choice of 6 restroom stalls and 200 parking spaces and 500 hotel rooms, I have the choice of 1 restroom stall and 2 parking spaces and 2 hotel rooms, so who is likely to spend more time waiting, you or me?

Ideally, all restroom stalls would be wheelchair accessible. Then we wouldn't even be having this conversation, and I'd wait on line right behind you.

But our society has chosen to implement a "separate but not equal" solution to the problem of access, just like coloured and white lunch counters and bus seats. This creates unequal access to facilities.

And frankly, whether I wait or not is not the point of my reply. My point is that if an able-bodied person believes that no one is ever turned away due to his/her use of accessible facilities, that person has a mistaken perception.

craz

the problem with Restroom Stalls at least at Airports is that most people are traveling with Carry-On Rollerboards that they cant get into the stall with them and still be able to close the door.

2nd alot of the restrooms have only a handful of stalls to begin with, so its a better chance that someone who doesnt need the accessible one will be using it.

It would be nice if all the stalls were larger so that Rollerboards could get in, but that will mean less stalls to begin with so unfortunately I doubt that this will occur.

How about on a Plane, do you really think that people who dont especially need the accessible Lav, shouldnt use it but rather wait for one of the others? I use them simply cause they are usually located in the Middle of the a/c where the ceiling isnt curved and I can actually stand up straight which is difficult for me to do in the other lavs due to my height. And Yes when in Biz or 1st, I will walk back into Coach in order to use 1

Canarsie

While I generally agree with everything you have said, Katje, I believe that unequal access to facilities for people with disabilities is chiefly based on economic decisions by the providers of such facilities rather than based on discrimination. That is not to say that discrimination does not currently exist towards people with disabilities, but I do not believe that is a conscious and deliberate choice amongst the majority of people and corporations.

Disabled people require larger stalls in public bathrooms for wheelchair access and additional equipment such as bars in hotel room bathrooms. Although it would be an ideal situation, to outfit every public or hotel bathroom to qualify as accessible for people with disabilities would simply cost more. Also, in the case of public bathrooms, there would be fewer stalls if all of them were expanded to qualify as accessible for people with disabilities, as there is only so much real estate with which to work.

These are merely observations, not arguments for or against the ideal solution of equipping every facility to qualify as accessible for people with disabilities.

Assuming that I am correct and economics are the major factor in determining the amount of facilities created for people with disabilities, what would you propose as an equitable solution for what is being discussed in this thread, Katja?

Are there any circumstances in which a person who is not disabled could reserve a room specially designed for people with disabilities?

Katja

Your points are very valid. It will never be possible to design a society in which everyone has access to everything they need and/or want.

Your distinction between economic decisions and social dictates is also very valid. One of the reasons we find it necessary to legislate public behaviour is that in a capitalist society, behaviour is frequently driven primarily by profit motivations above other considerations. Even *with* legislation like the ADA, many facilities and businesses choose not to provide accessible facilities, due to cost considerations and the perception that there is no added value to them to serve and provide access to people with disabilities.

I am not telling anybody what to do. I am not telling any able-bodied person on this thread not to reserve or accept an accessible hotel room.

What drew me into this thread were statements by (presumably able-bodied) posters that this practice did not have an impact on any disabled person ("I don't for a minute believe any person who deserves these rooms has ever been denied one because the hotel gave me one at checkin"), or that the poster would be able to detect such an impact and would react appropriately ("yes, I would yield the accessible loo to someone who really needed it.").

I submit, based on personal experience, that such impacts do occur, that an able-bodied person using an accessible resource will not necessarily realise this, and that even if s/he does, that person will not necessarily yield the resource.

Those of you who do use these resources and believe that this is morally acceptable because you plan to yield them if needed may wish to consider this alternate perception.

There are of course also people who do not believe these resources are scarce (witness the "how come there are so many permit parking spaces - that's not fair to able-bodied people" and "how come the Routemaster busses were taken away when nobody ever uses the lifts" discussions).