Hi guys,
could find anything about it:
Just wondering how the relation is:
HH Points to PC Points to Hyatt Points
If I have 100000 points in each account, where do I have the most value?
PC Points are the easiest to recieve right? Than Hilton and than Hyatt?
Advise please
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I looked at the referenced threads and that is a lot of material to weed through so I'll give you my opinion on your question about 100,000 points.
1. Hyatt and IHG do not have extended stay discounts. You pay the same nightly reward rate for a five night stay as a one night stay. 15,000 points a night will cost 75,000 points for five nights.
Hilton offers 15% off standard award rate for VIP 4-night stays, 20% off 5-night stays (same with Marriott and Starwood) and 25% off for 6 night and longer stays. This makes a category 7 hotel reward for 6-nights drop from 300,000 to 225,000 points with HHonors.
2. In terms of earn/burn the programs are comparable in that HHonors for a Points & Points earner takes $3,334 in spend to earn a top category 7 reward night at 50,000 points. This amount is reduced by 15% to 25% for extended stay VIP rewards.
IHG takes $4,000 in hotel spend to earn a 40,000 points high-tier InterContinental Hotel reward or $3,000 for low tier InterContinental hotels. $2,500 earns a free night at any Crowne Plaza which will likely be a comparable category 7 Hilton in many cities.
Hyatt takes $4,400 for a category 6 at 22,000 points or $3,600 for a category 5 at 18,000 points.
Promotions generally make Hyatt and IHG more lucrative for bonus points than HHonors over a year's hotel travel.
3. The distribution of hotels among hotel reward categories is an important consideration when comparing the value of points across hotel programs.
Hilton is top heavy. Hilton has a higher percentage of hotels in its top two categories of 6 and 7 than any other major program has in its top two tiers of hotel rewards. Hilton has a 7,500 points category 1 reward but only about 40 hotels in that category or about 1% of Hilton brand hotels worldwide.
Hyatt is bottom heavy, meaning your 100,000 points will go a long way in Hyatt if used at Category 1 (5,000 points) and Category 2 (8,000 points) hotels. Hyatt has over 60% of its hotels in category 1 and 2.
A category 5 or 6 hotel in Hyatt is generally something pretty special. A category 6 or 7 hotel in Hilton may be really nice or just a mediocre hotel in a popular location.
IHG is brand specific meaning there are some great deals and some not so great deals. Crowne Plaza is 25,000 points per night regardless if the hotel is an average of $100 per night or $300 per night.
Bottom line for mid-tier to upper-tier hotel reward redemptions:100,000 Hilton buys 2 to 4 nights. Pointstretchers increase this to 3 to 6 nights. VIP rewards require more points, but give big savings on high category rewards.
100,000 Hyatt buys 5 to 12 nights. Hyatt offers no discount rates for points.
100,000 Priority Club buys 3 to 6 nights. Discount reward rates increase this to 6 to 12 nights.
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Nice comparison Satori!
However, in my opinion I find that category 4 Hyatt hotels are very similar to Category 6 Hilton. This based on dozens of Seattle Grand Hyatt and Conrad Indianapolis stays. Both of those locations are excellent. This is of course a limited study and there may be other places that contradict my findings. I also find that the Category one Hyatt Place hotels (Portland comes to mind) that are superior to many Category 2 and 3 Holiday inns.
I suppose what I am trying to add to the conversation is that each location would have one place better than another and your travel habits or intentions would have to come into consideration before you could really just choose one that suits you best. Cheaper is not always better and all that.
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For me, PC and HH equal around a penny apiece. HY is around 2 cents.
My next PC redemption will be Crowne Plaza Times Square at 25,000 points per night. I roughly value a hotel of that quality in that location at about $250. (It's a peak pre-Christmas weekend and our plans are not yet 100% firm, hence the higher-than-Priceline valuation.)
My last HH was a 6-night stay in Luxor (great hotel, BTW) that was around 1.5 cpm at the time but would be more like 1 cpm today, thanks to the devaluation and category creep. Luxor's a place I probably wouldn't go off-brand, third-party-booked, or "midscale" - therefore I'm willing to consider Hilton as "worth" most of its best available cash rate for my stay.
Those are typical stays for me in both programs: 6-nighters with HH at good resort-style properties. For PC, it's short stays where I don't care *quite* as much about the experience at the hotel itself in markets where I'd rather avoid paying cash (like Manhattan).
I've just been accumulating HY in the past year or so...but a few simple queries for my kind of stays revealed some 2cpm opportunities. My hunch is that an experienced Hyatt guest gets more out of his/her points than that.
The only drawback for some is the fact that HH is so geared around the 6+ night stay. Marriott is 7 with the Travel Packages and Starwood is 5, although Starwood's C&P awards make short weekend stays attractive as well.
I like having all of them available although I haven't been as HH-active since the devaluation.
Hilton HHonors is top heavy but the redemption rate of the top category hotels are very favorable compared to Hyatt, PC, Marriott or Starwood.
In top European / Asian destination, Hyatt usually asks for 22K points / night, SPG are usually Cat. 6 for 16-20K points / night using 5th night free depending on season whereas Hilton can be as low as 36.25K for a Cat. 7 using AXON.
Spending Analysis at a Top International Hotel
Using SPG's mid-point value at 18K / night, this would imply that:
1 SPG point = 1.2 Hyatt Points
1 SPG point = 2.0 Hilton Points
1 Hyatt point = 1.6 Hilton Points
Earning Analysis
However, a top tier member of each program earns:
SPG Platinum: 3 SPG points / dollar
Hyatt Diamond: 6.5 Hyatt points / dollar
Hilton Diamond: 15 Hilton points / dollar
Opportunity cost of earning 1 SPG point = 2.2 Hyatt points = 5 Hilton points
Opportunity cost of earning 1 Hyatt point = 2.3 Hilton points
Equivalent Value Comparison = Earning Rate / Spending Rate
Conclusion: Redeeming HH Points at top tier hotels (i.e. Category 7 such as Hilton Arc de Triomphe, Conard Hong Kong, Conrad Tokyo) compare very favorably against SPG, which has better value at lower tier hotels while notoriously expensive at the top. Comparing HH Points to Hyatt also shows that Hilton is at an advantage of about 39% in value, after factoring both earning & spending.
Hilton HHonors is top heavy but the redemption rate of the top category hotels are very favorable compared to Hyatt, PC, Marriott or Starwood.
In top European / Asian destination, Hyatt usually asks for 22K points / night, SPG are usually Cat. 6 for 16-20K points / night using 5th night free depending on season whereas Hilton can be as low as 36.25K for a Cat. 7 using AXON.
Spending Analysis at a Top International Hotel
Using SPG's mid-point value at 18K / night, this would imply that:
1 SPG point = 1.2 Hyatt Points
1 SPG point = 2.0 Hilton Points
1 Hyatt point = 1.6 Hilton Points
Earning Analysis
However, a top tier member of each program earns:
SPG Platinum: 3 SPG points / dollar
Hyatt Diamond: 6.5 Hyatt points / dollar
Hilton Diamond: 15 Hilton points / dollar
Opportunity cost of earning 1 SPG point = 2.2 Hyatt points = 5 Hilton points
Opportunity cost of earning 1 Hyatt point = 2.3 Hilton points
Equivalent Value Comparison = Earning Rate / Spending Rate
Conclusion: Redeeming HH Points at top tier hotels (i.e. Category 7 such as Hilton Arc de Triomphe, Conard Hong Kong, Conrad Tokyo) compare very favorably against SPG, which has better value at lower tier hotels while notoriously expensive at the top. Comparing HH Points to Hyatt also shows that Hilton is at an advantage of about 39% in value, after factoring both earning & spending.
Your analysis is a little Hilton biased. You used the average of 1 day award and 5 day at SPG and you used the lowest Hilton award available. A fairer comparison would probably be to use Hilton at 43K per night. Advantage is still Hilton but less so.
My problem though is that for those who are not always staying in top notch hotels Hilton has very few properties providing good value. I have probably less than 10 cities in the world that I could justify spending my hilton points at.
However, in my opinion I find that category 4 Hyatt hotels are very similar to Category 6 Hilton. This based on dozens of Seattle Grand Hyatt and Conrad Indianapolis stays. Both of those locations are excellent. This is of course a limited study and there may be other places that contradict my findings. I also find that the Category one Hyatt Place hotels (Portland comes to mind) that are superior to many Category 2 and 3 Holiday inns.
I think you are failing to account for the fact that Seattle is considerably more expensive than IND. The seattle Hilton itself is a cat. 7 and the Hyatt there is way nicer. It seems to me that most hotels which are cat. 4 at Hyatt will be cat. 7 at Hilton.
I've just been accumulating HY in the past year or so...but a few simple queries for my kind of stays revealed some 2cpm opportunities. My hunch is that an experienced Hyatt guest gets more out of his/her points than that.
4 nights in mid-July cost 262,032 CFP or $3,266 USD.
Cost in points using AXON = 145,000 Hilton points and comes with Breakfast for 2, Free Internet and a Room Upgrade if Gold/Diamond
1 Hilton Point = $ 2.25 cpm
Given that this is a location that many people take their honeymoon and are usually willing to spend for a once lifetime occasion, the saving of $0.0225 / point in this case is real.
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The only drawback for some is the fact that HH is so geared around the 6+ night stay. Marriott is 7 with the Travel Packages and Starwood is 5, although Starwood's C&P awards make short weekend stays attractive as well.
I think you are forgetting about AXON for Hilton. It's only 4 nights as opposed to 6 and actually comes to a per night cost slightly lower than the VIP 6 nights award: 36.25K per night vs. 37.5K per night So with Hilton, so long as you are willing to stay a minimum of 4 nights, it prices very attractively against SPG and Marriott.
The Marriott Travel Package is quite over-rated because Marriott excludes a key elite benefit - free breakfast when staying at a resort and Marriott is absent on some of the really nice resort locations in the world. Also, if you don't want airline miles, the Marriott Travel Package is not going to be very useful. SPG is great value but as soon as you reach Cat. 6 or 7, the pricing becomes quite unreasonable, even using C&P.
Your analysis is a little Hilton biased. You used the average of 1 day award and 5 day at SPG and you used the lowest Hilton award available. A fairer comparison would probably be to use Hilton at 43K per night. Advantage is still Hilton but less so.
I guess I should have spelled out my calculation a little more clear, I can see why you thought I was using unequal comparison but I wasn't.
SPG Cat. 6 is actually 20-25K / night, I used 16-20K / night in my calculation because that is the average cost / night when redeeming with 5th night free.
For example: Hotel Grand Bretagne in Athens, usually prices no lower than $400 / night including taxes can be have for 20K night or 80K for 5 nights. The average point cost = 16K / night = 80K / 5 nights
Hilton's 36.25K points / night = 145K AXON award / 4 nights
The former requires a 5 nights stay and the latter, a 4 nights stay. They seem pretty much on equal playing field to me and strictly speaking, it's even slight advantage to Hilton because the minimum stay requirement is lower by 1 night.
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My problem though is that for those who are not always staying in top notch hotels Hilton has very few properties providing good value. I have probably less than 10 cities in the world that I could justify spending my hilton points at.
Yes and No. The analysis specified that the spending has to happen at high end Int'l properties, citing examples in Paris, Hong Kong and Tokyo. That was the caveat of the analysis, which was clearly spelled out in my post. As for you have less than 10 cities that you can justify spending Hilton points, I think that's probably a little exaggerated. In virtually any major cities in the world, like London, Paris, Rome, Moscow, New York, Tokyo, Hong Kong, and some nice resort locations such as two in French Polynesia, two other in Seychelles, at least 3 in Maldives, Grand Wailea in Maui.Hawaii, there are many high end properties that one can make good use of Hilton points. To be sure, the list is probably less than 100 locations but to say it's less than 10, is clearly not giving the program the credit where it is due.
To be sure, the list is probably less than 100 locations but to say it's less than 10, is clearly not giving the program the credit where it is due.
To be fair. I said that "I" have less than ten places in the world where they seem redeemable. Others may have many more. I have done a fairly thorough analysis of all the properties and only a handful will be redeemable for me.
Those mostly include:
London (staying in Trafalgar in July)
Paris (although I am thinking I'd prefer to use point for Park hyatt)
Maldives (cost and time to get there makes this vacation iffy)
Los Cabos (standard rate not that high so points will yield 0.65 at most)
IMO I will always get something in the US for under $200 with the possible exceptions of NYC and Hawaii. I have been to NYC 50 times and never stayed in a hotel because I know many people there. The only Hilton in Hawaii of interest to me is Maui but that cost so many points. Rather just use 22K Hyatt points or 12K SPG.
In Europe outside of London and Paris I don't see myself really spending much over $200. Same probably applies to Asia outside of Tokyo. Already been to Tokyo and if I went again Hyatt point provide the better deal IMO. I suppose Sydney could be a possibility.
Not saying there won't be many hotels for others, just not that many for me. While a few Hiltons will provide me with good value most are off my radar. And the cities that Hilton works well often have a better Hyatt. Paris, Tokyo and Moscow all come to mind. It seems that the new Hyatt in Maldives may be superior too. Although I guess if you can earn Hilton at three times Hyatt then the Hyatt are still 50% more expensive.
I got the Hilton card with the intention of using the points in London. I will probably earn another couple hundred K with the intention of the Maldives. I know that I will get reasonable value at Paris or Los Cabos if Maldives never happens. After that though I am thinking that Hyatt may make more sense for my needs.
The only Hilton in Hawaii of interest to me is Maui but that cost so many points. Rather just use 22K Hyatt points or 12K SPG.
Grand Wailea is special, it's a class above the Hyatt and at least 2 class above the Sheraton/Westin at 12K SPG point. It's expensive but not exactly comparable with the alternatives you cite.
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In Europe outside of London and Paris I don't see myself really spending much over $200. Same probably applies to Asia outside of Tokyo. Already been to Tokyo and if I went again Hyatt point provide the better deal IMO. I suppose Sydney could be a possibility.
Many other European cities are also very expensive, Oslo, Stockholm, Zurich, Moscow, Athens, Madrid - definitely more than $200 / night if you want something that is at least 4 stars and not in the middle of winter there. Also resort locations, such as Mallorca or Greek Isles, Mediterranean locations will also be far more than $200 / night but if that's your budget as in how much you are willing to spend / night, then you are right, high end properties mean very little to you since you are value oriented. In Tokyo, Conrad Tokyo, a Cat. 7 Hilton property will be more cost effective than Hyatt using AXON assuming you stay at least 4 nights. The two are fairly comparable in quality.
You are right in that at the end, this is a very personal decision. You know what's best for you. Others hopefully can take better advantage of these opportunities.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hindukid
I think you are failing to account for the fact that Seattle is considerably more expensive than IND. The seattle Hilton itself is a cat. 7 and the Hyatt there is way nicer. It seems to me that most hotels which are cat. 4 at Hyatt will be cat. 7 at Hilton.
Exactly my point - although not explained well enough it would seem. Thanks.
4 nights in mid-July cost 262,032 CFP or $3,266 USD.
Cost in points using AXON = 145,000 Hilton points and comes with Breakfast for 2, Free Internet and a Room Upgrade if Gold/Diamond
1 Hilton Point = $ 2.25 cpm
Given that this is a location that many people take their honeymoon and are usually willing to spend for a once lifetime occasion, the saving of $0.0225 / point in this case is real.
Thanks...we've actually talked about Bora Bora sometime in the next 3-4 years. In all seriousness, it's nice to see that HH hasn't totally removed these properties from the program (or priced them with laughably high points-per-night).
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I think you are forgetting about AXON for Hilton. It's only 4 nights as opposed to 6 and actually comes to a per night cost slightly lower than the VIP 6 nights award: 36.25K per night vs. 37.5K per night So with Hilton, so long as you are willing to stay a minimum of 4 nights, it prices very attractively against SPG and Marriott.
Yes, I have the HH Amex and have done an AXON before. Good point...a four-nighter is attractive in the HH program.
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The Marriott Travel Package is quite over-rated because Marriott excludes a key elite benefit - free breakfast when staying at a resort and Marriott is absent on some of the really nice resort locations in the world. Also, if you don't want airline miles, the Marriott Travel Package is not going to be very useful.
True, but I just assume that since we're FT'ers, the airline miles are useful to us.
However, one of my TP's ended up being 1 week Marriott + 6 nights Hilton + a few leftover AA miles. (Thanks to the AA->HH conversion, one of the few conversions out there that's actually an okay value.) Sadly, the MR->AA link no longer exists.
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SPG is great value but as soon as you reach Cat. 6 or 7, the pricing becomes quite unreasonable, even using C&P.
I'm find that most SPG Cat 5's are very good. I don't get into the 6-7 range on awards. I tend to compare a SPG 5 to an MR 6 to an HH 7. I realize it isn't 100% perfect... Of the category creep, I think I'm most frustrated with Marriott right now because they've let some very average properties into their 7 and 8 range. The one thing I'll say about Starwood is that if you're in one of their Category 7's, you know it's an extremely good hotel, probably a true 4-star hotel or otherwise in its country's list of top hotels.
SPG Platinum: 3 SPG points / dollar
Hyatt Diamond: 6.5 Hyatt points / dollar
Hilton Diamond: 15 Hilton points / dollar
This calculation can get skewed if you are using the hotel-affiliated CC. Add 9 HH per dollar spend with Surpass, for example. Also booking online give another 500 HH, a nice chunk on those $70-80 Hampton stays. And then the Double Dip.
Recently there were some crazy HH-earning opportunities for a Diamond. I think it was in December, where I was getting 54 or 59 HH per dollar, all-in. Plus breakfast for 2, plus internet. That seemed much superior to Hyatt/SPG at the time.
