Programs: WN CP & A-List, US SP, DL SM, UA 3P, HH Dia, Hyatt Dia, SPG Gold, Hertz 5*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleManToo
Why stay at Hilton's when there are better programs out there that reward you with more rewards? Sure location matters in some cases but if we are truly only looking at the rewards program, there are programs out there that are more rewarding than the new 2010 Hilton program unless we see changes or more promotions.
At the risk of sounding like a Hilton apologist, I don't see a program with measurably more rewards out there.
My most recent HHonors redemption was at the Hilton Paris ADT and before that the Hilton Barbados, both excellent hotels as discussed here on FT. Let's take Paris, after these changes a five-night stay will be 200,000 HHonors points. Let's compare that to similar properties from the other major chains.
Of course, there are wrinkles to each program that makes this not exactly what we want. HHonors we can double dip, it may be more appropriate to do this on a points + points comparison, which would lower the cost to $6,897. SPG, Marriott, and Hyatt you would get their "welcome" amenity which you can opt for more poitns, 200-1,000 points/stay, so that would effectively lower their cost a bit. They all have promos from time to time, I'm sure some would say IC's are the most generous.
Quite frankly, Hyatt is my favorite of the bunch anyway because of their annual Nights after Nights (now Next Big Thing), but Hyatt and SPG have a huge problem in that they don't have as many properties combined as any of the other three.
I think Hilton's lounge access policy for Diamonds is a big plus, others will say SPG's suuite upgrade for Plats is where it's at. IC has good benefits for Royal Ambassadors, but my limited understanding is that's a tricky status to get (based only on stays at IC brand hotels, not the cheaper hotels).
As I mentioned prevoiusly I gave an advantage to Marriott and SPG by using a five-night stay, you get the most benefit from them in exactly five-night increments, Hilton VIP awards you can do 4-14 days and still receive some benefit.
Note that if your goal is earning hotel stays through credit card spend, the Surpass card blows away the competition, especially since you can earn top tier elite on spend alone.
In the end, while I'm not arguing this is not a devaluation, I always thought HHonors was ahead of everyone before, which is why I favored them, and it seems like now they're roughly even, not behind. Now that Hilton has done a big devaluation I would guess it will be someone else who devalues their program next, but that is just a guess.
At the risk of sounding like a Hilton apologist, I don't see a program with measurably more rewards out there.
My most recent HHonors redemption was at the Hilton Paris ADT and before that the Hilton Barbados, both excellent hotels as discussed here on FT. Let's take Paris, after these changes a five-night stay will be 200,000 HHonors points. Let's compare that to similar properties from the other major chains.
Of course, there are wrinkles to each program that makes this not exactly what we want. HHonors we can double dip, it may be more appropriate to do this on a points + points comparison, which would lower the cost to $6,897. SPG and Hyatt you would get their "welcome" amenity which you can opt for more poitns, 500 points/stay, so that would effectively lower their cost a bit. They all have promos from time to time, I'm sure some would say IC's are the most generous.
Quite frankly, Hyatt is my favorite of the bunch anyway because of their annual Nights after Nights (now Next Big Thing), but Hyatt and SPG have a huge problem in that they don't have as many properties combined as any of the other three.
I think Hilton's lounge access policy for Diamonds is a big plus, others will say SPG's suuite upgrade for Plats is where it's at. IC has good benefits for Royal Ambassadors, but my limited understanding is that's a tricky status to get (based only on stays at IC brand hotels, not the cheaper hotels).
As I mentioned prevoiusly I gave an advantage to Marriott and SPG by using a five-night stay, you get the most benefit from them in exactly five-night increments, Hilton VIP awards you can do 4-14 days and still receive some benefit.
Note that if your goal is earning hotel stays through credit card spend, the Surpass card blows away the competition, especially since you can earn top tier elite on spend alone.
In the end, while I'm not arguing this is not a devaluation, I always thought HHonors was ahead of everyone before, which is why I favored them, and it seems like now they're roughly even, not behind. Now that Hilton has done a big devaluation I would guess it will be someone else who devalues their program next, but that is just a guess.
Your numbers seem a bit off to me. Isn't the platinum (and gold) elite bonus for SPG 50 %? For Hyatt, the diamond bonus is 30 % or 1.5 points per dollar. Starwood and Marriott give 500 point platinum bonus welcome gifts at FS properties. Marriott gives 200 points for limited service properties, except for CYs outside of the USA where they give 250. Hyatt gives 1000 for diamond members only in North American FS properties, 500 for limited service properties.
I could be wrong, but I think the 2 Hyatt properties in Paris (not including the one at CDG) require 18,000 points per night. So your comparison would require 90,000 points for a 5 night stay.
Promotions occur at uneven frequencies depending on the chains. Until recently, I have not seen many Hilton systemwide promos, whereas Marriott has had at least 2 MegaBonus promos a year for the past 5 years at least. Starwood and Hyatt run more property based promos that seem easier to get than at Marriott and Hilton. I think this will push down the cost of awards for both Starwood and Hyatt. The top tier welcome gifts also count more at these two chains because you do not earn as many points through the room rate itself.
Starwood and Marriott have packages that let you redeem points for rooms and airline miles at attractive rates. I still think the Marriott travel packages are one of the best deals around if you earn enough points (since you can transfer one Marriott point to one mile in 50-120k increments for US and a few foreign carriers).
Hilton is good if you want top status by charging $40k/yr to an Amex card, but it is not so good for those who earn most of their points by staying at Hilton properties. I prefer a combo of Marriott and Hyatt since they offer better customer service and have unlisted benefits for top tier customers. I think some of the intangibles (soft landing at Marriott for elite status if you are platinum, extra flexibility for bending rules from both chains, and lifetime status) are worth something. Also, Hyatt and Marriott do not have points expiration.
This is a case where YMMV. For North American travelers, Hyatt is a good fit to earn lots of points on cheap weekend stays if you travel to cities where they have a lot of properties. Hyatt does not give diamond members welcome points as a gift for travel outside of North America, unlike Marriott and Starwood.
Otherwise, I would rank the three main ones as: Marriott, Hilton, and IC based mainly on quality and award redemption. I am not a big fan of IC limiting points earning at top properties and the lack of consistent quality in their lower end properties, but it is real easy to earn their platinum status and a lot of points with few stays.
What, are you trying to impose reason and math into this dogfight…I’m still awaiting my order of pitchforks, torches and spiked clubs to arrive from Amazon.com.
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Programs: WN CP & A-List, US SP, DL SM, UA 3P, HH Dia, Hyatt Dia, SPG Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 12,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by VA1379
Your numbers seem a bit off to me. Isn't the platinum (and gold) elite bonus for SPG 50 %? For Hyatt, the diamond bonus is 30 % or 1.5 points per dollar. Starwood and Marriott give 500 point platinum bonus welcome gifts at FS properties. Marriott gives 200 points for limited service properties, except for CYs outside of the USA where they give 250. Hyatt gives 1000 for diamond members only in North American FS properties, 500 for limited service properties.
I could be wrong, but I think the 2 Hyatt properties in Paris (not including the one at CDG) require 18,000 points per night. So your comparison would require 90,000 points for a 5 night stay.
I believe you're right on all of those, Hilton is my main program so I was going from memory on some of it and some is just bad math in my head on my part, I'm going to fix my original post instead of reposting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VA1379
Starwood and Marriott have packages that let you redeem points for rooms and airline miles at attractive rates. I still think the Marriott travel packages are one of the best deals around if you earn enough points (since you can transfer one Marriott point to one mile in 50-120k increments for US and a few foreign carriers).
I have little to no interest in converting hotel points to airline miles, others think differently obviously. Of course with Hilton I get miles with every stay anyway.
Edited again to add one more thing: In terms of intangibles, I think the ability to Diamond Force an award with Hilton is a huge benefit that I don't believe any other chain matches.
Thanks Beckles for the info on points/dollar spend.
Obviously not all of us have all chains in our respective travel areas. SPG & Hyatt have less properties but the Hyatt promo for those who can take advantage of it, does look appealing for now. Of course, none of us know what will happen in 2010 with any program but Hilton how stepped up and announced their changes.
Im just taking a hard look at where I spend my travel dollars for the remainder of 2009 and into 2010 and I tend to think that you go with what promo is hot. For me personally, I want to build up points for Free Hotel/Resort stays. Others want to build up airline points and after I get my 7-10 free nights, I may too.
In the US, Stay Two get One Night Free is my favorite but it isn't offered as much these days and the redemption overseas usually costs more anyways.
Programs: AA Executive PLatinum CO Platinum DL Gold Hyatt Diamond Hilton no more :)
Posts: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckles
I believe you're right on all of those, Hilton is my main program so I was going from memory on some of it and some is just bad math in my head on my part, I'm going to fix my original post instead of reposting.
I have little to no interest in converting hotel points to airline miles, others think differently obviously. Of course with Hilton I get miles with every stay anyway.
Edited again to add one more thing: In terms of intangibles, I think the ability to Diamond Force an award with Hilton is a huge benefit that I don't believe any other chain matches.
hilton does have strenth in europe, a plus, but since you are into numbers, try these: If you stay at Hilton on the cheap, say a $100 room. 10pts for Diamond + 5pts for bonus + 5pts for points and points + 9 points for surpass = 2900 pts per $100 stay. or 17.24 nites to make 50k for a 1 nite award at the HHV. Which you could priceline for around $100. Why bother
Location: California; DO-RAGS: Old Gold tagged, PIP, LatPass 1/2, AA 3MM, HH Diamond, *Wood Gold, Omni
Posts: 4,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by giggy
....Why bother
To those (not me) travelling on the corporate/government dime I’m guessing it’s because they are travelling on the corporate/government dime.
Even if one is a business owner/self-employed, the tax implications might cut your example by as must as half. So, maybe eight or nine nights in a crappy hotel for a night in a nice place...maybe, particularly when you factor in that Diamond will get you a free breakfast.
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Programs: WN CP & A-List, US SP, DL SM, UA 3P, HH Dia, Hyatt Dia, SPG Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 12,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by giggy
hilton does have strenth in europe, a plus, but since you are into numbers, try these: If you stay at Hilton on the cheap, say a $100 room. 10pts for Diamond + 5pts for bonus + 5pts for points and points + 9 points for surpass = 2900 pts per $100 stay. or 17.24 nites to make 50k for a 1 nite award at the HHV. Which you could priceline for around $100. Why bother
It's pretty easy to find awards that are terrible values, it still doesn't change the relative earnings of the different frequent guest programs such as the example I used.
I'm using 40,000 points next year for two nights at the Hilton Garden Inn Omaha Downtown ... sound like a bad deal? Well, it's for Friday and Saturday nights during the Berkshire Hathaway annual meeting that I had to use the Diamond Force to even get. Suddenly not such a bad value, is it?
You're also overlooking the value a Diamond member receives on an award stay at the HHV compared to if they stay using Priceline, it still doesn't necessarilly make it a great use of points, but it is a consideration. You certainly don't have to preach the value of Priceline to me, I use it dozens of times a year for rooms for myself, co-workers, family, and friends.
Programs: AA Executive PLatinum CO Platinum DL Gold Hyatt Diamond Hilton no more :)
Posts: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailer
To those (not me) travelling on the corporate/government dime I’m guessing it’s because they are travelling on the corporate/government dime.
Even if one is a business owner/self-employed, the tax implications might cut your example by as must as half. So, maybe eight or nine nights in a crappy hotel for a night in a nice place...maybe, particularly when you factor in that Diamond will get you a free breakfast.
Funny HHV devalued the breakfast, now you get toast and fruit, no more hot full breakfast, even for diamonds. Also, no more 00 or 01 corner rooms for UGs in the Rainbow tower, and no late checkouts. When I was there last april, on a priceline stay ($99) I got a Rainbow tower Diamond Head view room. so again why bother? In the words of flyertalk's posting legend " This game isn't as much fun as it used to be"
Programs: AA Executive PLatinum CO Platinum DL Gold Hyatt Diamond Hilton no more :)
Posts: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckles
It's pretty easy to find awards that are terrible values, it still doesn't change the relative earnings of the different frequent guest programs such as the example I used.
I'm using 40,000 points next year for two nights at the Hilton Garden Inn Omaha Downtown ... sound like a bad deal? Well, it's for Friday and Saturday nights during the Berkshire Hathaway annual meeting that I had to use the Diamond Force to even get. Suddenly not such a bad value, is it?
You're also overlooking the value a Diamond member receives on an award stay at the HHV compared to if they stay using Priceline, it still doesn't necessarilly make it a great use of points, but it is a consideration. You certainly don't have to preach the value of Priceline to me, I use it dozens of times a year for rooms for myself, co-workers, family, and friends.
For now Hyatt seems to be where its at. Faster Free Nites promos a couple times a year adds up. 4 suite ugrades per year for Diamonds (up to 7 nites each) is also a plus. That's the direction i'm taking. BTW Beckles, you could get a Hiatt Diamond status match, sign up for the bigger better, make thirteen stays in Jan @ double stay credit + bonus points or free nites and be Hyatt Diamond too, til 2012
Of course, there are wrinkles to each program that makes this not exactly what we want. HHonors we can double dip, it may be more appropriate to do this on a points + points comparison, which would lower the cost to $6,897. SPG, Marriott, and Hyatt you would get their "welcome" amenity which you can opt for more poitns, 200-1,000 points/stay, so that would effectively lower their cost a bit. They all have promos from time to time, I'm sure some would say IC's are the most generous.
That would be an understatement. If you're a loyal follower of the IC promo thread you can vastly beat these numbers. Your 18 points per dollar figure is very very low in comparison to the possibilities. My earning rate amounts to an average of 54 points per dollar - that's right at 3x your estimate - so at my earning rate its $3703 to get to the 200K level. I grant that you have to be a promo hound to reach this level but I would offer that reaching this return is simply not possible in any other program. (to be fair Marriott does offer a couple of mega-bonuses a year so figure 50K off the 200K so its closer to 150K/20 = $7500)
In addition IC promos have earned me:
- 3 free nights during thier free night promo
- $40 gift voucher at MLB.com
Lastly they have the ultimate point relief valve - you can get Anyhotel gift cards with their points that gives you the net ability to earn Hilton points using PC points.
The PC program just has a better return possiblity.
That said I do have to be fair - PC doesn't have the greatest property portfolio. For someone like me on a $150/day hotel expense guideline HIEx and Hamptons are quite comparable (Hampton has better breakfast but HIEx has better room upgrade potential). However, most HIs and even a lot of Crowne Plazas are best avoided. The anyhotel card gives you and out on the redemption end but the earning side of the equation can be limited if you're inbetween HIEx and InterContinetals.
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For now Hyatt seems to be where its at. Faster Free Nites promos a couple times a year adds up. 4 suite ugrades per year for Diamonds (up to 7 nites each) is also a plus. That's the direction i'm taking. BTW Beckles, you could get a Hiatt Diamond status match, sign up for the bigger better, make thirteen stays in Jan @ double stay credit + bonus points or free nites and be Hyatt Diamond too, til 2012
Hyatt's Gold Passport and InterContinental Hotel Group's Priority Club are the two major programs from which I am getting excellent value (although with ICHG PC the issue is they ordinarily don't like recognizing elite status on award stays).
As soon as I once again start paying a lot more attention to my hotel program guru, I'm sure I will find even more value elsewhere than I can find with Hilton next year if Hilton doesn't revise its course somehow.
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For now Hyatt seems to be where its at. Faster Free Nites promos a couple times a year adds up. 4 suite ugrades per year for Diamonds (up to 7 nites each) is also a plus. That's the direction i'm taking.
I'd agree with this if they just had more coverage. If Hyatt Places existed in even 1/2 the places that Hampton Inn's and even HGI's exist, this latest devaluation would make the choice simple. Given my travel patterns, though, I'm worried that Hyatt has too many holes.
People also keep talking about PC. My problem has been where I would use my points. When I collect Hilton points, I can go to Barbados, the HWV, or some nice properties in Europe. I can't see telling my wife that we're going on vacation to a Holiday Inn, and there just aren't enough Intercontinentals. I must be missing something about this program.
Programs: AA Executive PLatinum CO Platinum DL Gold Hyatt Diamond Hilton no more :)
Posts: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by GUWonder
Hyatt's Gold Passport and InterContinental Hotel Group's Priority Club are the two major programs from which I am getting excellent value (although with ICHG PC the issue is they ordinarily don't like recognizing elite status on award stays).
As soon as I once again start paying a lot more attention to my hotel program guru, I'm sure I will find even more value elsewhere than I can find with Hilton next year if Hilton doesn't revise its course somehow.
Yep, in my example above it was $1724 for 1 nite at HHV, Ditzing around with a Mattress run in my local Seattle area in Jan at Hyatt, I found I could make Diamond til 2012, get 6 free nites, and do it for $200 less. Hey Hilton
Programs: AA Executive PLatinum CO Platinum DL Gold Hyatt Diamond Hilton no more :)
Posts: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachary
I'd agree with this if they just had more coverage. If Hyatt Places existed in even 1/2 the places that Hampton Inn's and even HGI's exist, this latest devaluation would make the choice simple. Given my travel patterns, though, I'm worried that Hyatt has too many holes.
People also keep talking about PC. My problem has been where I would use my points. When I collect Hilton points, I can go to Barbados, the HWV, or some nice properties in Europe. I can't see telling my wife that we're going on vacation to a Holiday Inn, and there just aren't enough Intercontinentals. I must be missing something about this program.
Hey, I'm not saying that people shoud give them the heave ho. Just dont use them as a Primary choice. Use them to YOUR advantage when you need to. Europe for example, who needs the lounge??? Go to the grocery store @ 150 euro to the dollar Hilton does have good coverage in europe (even with less status and no UG) If I need to or want to go there, I can always swap my tons of AA miles 2/1 to get an award. That fills the holes. Hyatt is building lots of HPlaces and Summerfields too.
