I have requested a status match from Starwood. I have made four reservations with them for this year. The devaluation of points really is not the issue with me. I expect to pay for services, be it cash, miles or points and every program will do devalue from time to time. The comment(s) by HH Rep and those quoted by others from Hilton email responses in regards to the most elite Diamonds free night is what really bothers me. I would expect that a Diamond is a Diamond is a Diamond. Words matter. I was insulted.
I know that some customers may stay at specific hotels 120 days a year and they will have a strong relationship with that customer. They may be treated better than I based on that relationship. I am great with that. What bothers me is that corporate has apparently made a policy to add unpublished elite levels to their corporate program. From what I can determine, you can be a super, secret, special Diamond from having a Hilton credit card and never spending one night in a Hilton property. Apparently stays mean little to nothing as long as you’re spending on your HH card. That means this is no longer a loyalty program in myopinion but a purchase points via credit card program.
FWIW, I received the free night certificate and I'm no special Diamond customer. In fact, I have barely qualified during the past two years and only with the help of former rolling tier program.
I'll be shifting to Hyatt and SPG as my main choices, with HH my 3rd choice now. Im not a high roller by any means, (gold status since 2006), but this game is all about giving your loyalty to the program that best rewards it. Right now, that isnt HH. It might be again in the future, but it surely wont be the case for 2010.
I'm a Dia with HHonors, Gold with Marriott. I just status matched with Hyatt and cancelled 12 reservations with HHonors and moved 7 to Hyatt and 5 to Marriott. I don't need the nights or points so I'm going to stomp my feet, whine and let them know that they should have excluded those of us who have been most loyal. Hope that biz was worth it HHonors.
As well the other hotel chains (eg PC, SPG, Hyatt, Marriott). Will they match devaluations, or instead stay pat and do status matches. Etc.
Marriott won't increase as they did that last year, I think. In fact, they lowered two of their Hawaii resorts a notch -- Wailea in Maui and Waikoloa on the Big Island, right next to the Hilton.
SPG always reserves the right to move hotels up and down, but inasmuch as they lowered many, many hotels this year, and eliminated the high season rate redemptions -- unlike Hilton -- for the past year, I don't expect them to increase point levels or categories either for the next year.
Don't know enough about PC, but at least they have had some very good promotions this year that got me earning some of their points -- even without staying at any of their hotels -- in case I decide to use those points at one of their properties that I might need in a pinch.
Hyatt I think will stand pat, as they are all too happy to continue to poach disaffected HHonors members as well as demonstrate to all that they now have expanded their offerings in the US, at least, to cover many more major markets with either new builds or newly renovated properties. They always have relied on the superior service affordee by the "Hyatt Touch" and once the attention and promtion starved HHonors defectors get a bit of it, there will be no going back. Moreover, many of the road warriors who rack up significant time at the hotels will no doubt welcome the fact that there is no Hyatt credit card to -- in their mind -- dilute the program.
Programs: Delta Gold, US Air Gold, SPG Plat, Priority Club Plat, HH Diamond, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 152
Just switched 28 nights to Marriott and SPG
I just found out about this today. I called and moved 12 nights to Marriott and 12 to SPG. I am getting rid of my Hilton Amex. I doubt Hilton will care, but it will make me feel better.
I am extremely disappointed. I have been preventing my wife from using the points because I was hoarding 1.5 million points for a trip around the world.
I should have learned my lesson with Delta.
It looks like I will be going to Cabo this Christmas to burn some points.
Programs: AA EXP 1MM;HH Diamond;Marriott Gold;Priority Club Plat;Hertz #1 5*
Posts: 106
I am moving most of my business from Hilton to Marriott, but in a few years Marriott will probably tick me off again and I will probably shift some business back to Hilton.
OFF-TOPIC:
Quote:
Originally Posted by odysseusinrtp
It looks like I will be going to Cabo this Christmas to burn some points.
I was about to reply that that was a terrible value for points. Great hotel, but I paid $125/night with the Visa offer earlier this year and the first night in December I checked came up at $150. However, then I checked around Christmas and found rates some nights north of $300 a night which is getting close to where I value 40,000 points.
I am moving most of my business from Hilton to Marriott, but in a few years Marriott will probably tick me off again and I will probably shift some business back to Hilton.
Truer words have never been spoken
That said Marriott disappoints me more on average with value then any other major program
The one exception may be their ability to redeem points for airline mileage at acceptable exchange rates unlike Hilton
__________________ American SPG & Priority Club Platinum
Hyatt/Hilton Diamond Omni Select Gold
IHG Royal Ambassador
Don't know enough about PC, but at least they have had some very good promotions this year that got me earning some of their points -- even without staying at any of their hotels -- in case I decide to use those points at one of their properties that I might need in a pinch.
HHonors is in trouble.
+1 to the last point. PC members have been complaining of how hard it is to find availability at the lower levels (eg HI and HIX can be found for 15K-25K etc), but my biggest reason for moving biz there is their promotions, great treatment as a Plat, AND availability of Pointbreaks at 5K/night. Beats the heck out of Hilton's PS's that don't even exist anyway.
I have a 3 night stay costing me a whopping total of 15K pts/night at a HI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TULOKCICT
I am moving most of my business from Hilton to Marriott, but in a few years Marriott will probably tick me off again and I will probably shift some business back to Hilton.
i do not understand a lot of people on this board...
i do agree that hilton has terrible bonus points oppurtunities, i.e. hyatt= ffn, marriott= megabonus, etc...
i do agree that pointsavers/pointstretchers should be brought back and/or expanded.
but, hilton owns the hhonors program and they can dictate the rules of the program and raise the levels of redemption values if they like. also, don't some investments lose 20% of their value also? and i know, that an investment can go up, and hhonors values, will not likely go up in value.
my thing is, if one likes the hotel, then stay at it, if they treat you well ,then stay there, if not, then stay someplace else. this point accumulation has gotten out of hand, and i am as guilty as anyone else of this as well.
also, i would assume that most of these points "earned" are on the companies dime, and then therefore are in a way "free", where my points are all earned on my dime, and with points a lot of people can go on fantastic vacations for virtually nothing, i think that people should look at that, that they are going to these great hotels and flying business or first class for virtually nothing, on the companies dime.
also, i would assume that most of these points "earned" are on the companies dime, and then therefore are in a way "free", where my points are all earned on my dime, and with points a lot of people can go on fantastic vacations for virtually nothing, i think that people should look at that, that they are going to these great hotels and flying business or first class for virtually nothing, on the companies dime.
While this may be true for many here, it is not true for everyone, yourself included.
It should be noted, however, that many of those who do travel frequently on the company dime or otherwise, have noted a general deterioration in the HHonors program and level of service afforded top tier members -- from the Nor 1 program, to ill trained Diamond line personnel.
I think that the point/category increases would have been received in a better light had it not been for the above reasons I have mentioned, the lack of P/S, the re-categorization of hitherto top properties into the Waldorf brand incurring already increased point redemtions and a concommitant decision of some hotels to exclude top tier guest from lounges hitherto available to Diamond members = Cavalieri, the lack of meaningful point bonuses this year, etc.
Marriott's megabonus is the least of the attractive bonuses mentioned. PC had a free night promotion this year, Starwood, as well and Hyatt has one right now, as you had mentioned.
What is Hilton's promotion? 25,000 bonus points after 5 stays is it, or something like that? Big whoop, gets you a new Category 3-4 hotel for 1 night, is it?
Meanwhile, 5 stays will yield 2 1/2 free nights at Park Hyatt properties or anything else in the Hyatt portfolio.
Just no comparison, really.
Finally, whether accurate or not -- and I think it is likely more accurate -- many members here feel that Blackstone has decided to share the pain of their bad decision to purchase Hilton at the top of the market with the HHonors membership -- this, too, does not go over well with the people on this board.
i do not understand a lot of people on this board...
i do agree that hilton has terrible bonus points oppurtunities, i.e. hyatt= ffn, marriott= megabonus, etc...
i do agree that pointsavers/pointstretchers should be brought back and/or expanded.
but, hilton owns the hhonors program and they can dictate the rules of the program and raise the levels of redemption values if they like. also, don't some investments lose 20% of their value also? and i know, that an investment can go up, and hhonors values, will not likely go up in value.
my thing is, if one likes the hotel, then stay at it, if they treat you well ,then stay there, if not, then stay someplace else. this point accumulation has gotten out of hand, and i am as guilty as anyone else of this as well.
also, i would assume that most of these points "earned" are on the companies dime, and then therefore are in a way "free", where my points are all earned on my dime, and with points a lot of people can go on fantastic vacations for virtually nothing, i think that people should look at that, that they are going to these great hotels and flying business or first class for virtually nothing, on the companies dime.
Indeed all programs can make changes at any time and all customers can vote with their feet and wallet. Every great program has made blunders over the years. Hilton HHonors is no exception
Many programs realized that and made the changes accordingly when appropriate
Just look at the historical data on that.
As for great hotels Hilton certainly has some but frequently I am stuck at a boring Hampton Inn or a Hilton Garden Inn which is adequate but far from what I called a preferred hotel. So why stay? For the opportunity to stay in their better hotels on points and have a point currency of value. The way I would describe it is flying my tired old legacy carrier regularly for a transatlantic flight in First Class on British Airways
It makes up for the rest of the boring year in coach or domestic business or first
Reality? There are numerous other programs offering superior value the playing field is no longer reasonbaly level with the upcoming devaluation at HH
If someone is thrilled with say a Hampton Inn over a Hyatt Place or has no other choice because of location so be it. However there are far more exciting alternatives then ever before in history then with Hiltons generic ok brands
Examples? Starwoods Aloft and Element. Hyatt Place, Indigo and others
Bonus opportunities have improved on the Hilton Amex credit card and the new 25k bonus for 4 stays. So what though….
They are now they are taking it all back by devaluing the currency.
Whats the point of working as hard staying in their hotels to give it back without fair ability for redemption?
The fact is in this economy leisure is frequently outstripping business travel
So more is out of pocket.
You mention Point Stretchers should come back and be expanded. I agree.
However at the end of the day you want them back with expanded options for solid good reason. Simply because for each and every one of us its all about smart educated financial choices which is the value of the point currencyand the value now is going to be poor regardless of who pays for it out of pocket or employer.
That said with other excellent programs not eroding their point currency Hilton took a great risk at a poor time and IMO will have a bigger problem by paying a price to some degree.
The current regime is finance oriented not program oriented and it’s all about the program in a sea of options for consumers. Let the free market prevail and may every member make the best choice in their personal decision
Mine is to dramatically decrease staying at Hilton properties until some major improvements in their offerings/value come down the road to make it more worthwhile.......
Cheers
__________________ American SPG & Priority Club Platinum
Hyatt/Hilton Diamond Omni Select Gold
IHG Royal Ambassador
Last edited by 777 global mile hound; Nov 5, 09 at 12:28 am.
Programs: UA 1K *G, HH Silver, Fairmont Premier. my.flightmemory.com/amrivlin
Posts: 574
I must say, if I wasn't a HGVC owner, I would be out of HH all together.
Today I called into customer support to make an award booking.
35,000 per night for a hotel that is going for $150 USD online.
Clearly this is not a deal, and I expressed my concern, and POLIETLY asked her to forward this concern to management, that either the hotel is rated to high, or the stretcher program should be on, AND the 2010 value should be going down not up.
She proceeds to tell me that Hilton Hotels and Resorts has emerged from the recession and Hilton Hotels are booked at 90% this holiday season and they see no reason to make changes for lower rates especially in the HH program.
She was def going rouge on me, I wanted to probe more, but the wife was calling for dinner and I had lost ALL patience with the CSR' calm, yet offensive attitude.
All she had to do was pass my info onwards, not give me a lesson in hoteliering.
I will go with SPG since they are holding firm, and I like their brands.
Can anyone here remember any time in loyalty history where a sweeping change in a hotel guest program ever devalued a program across the board as much as the current increases set to roll out here?
I can remember a select group of high end properties raising up a category
Anything to this extent?
Thank you for the bad memories
I remember the uproar now as I type
Because I was not an active engaged member in that program at the time it had little impact on me. What impact it did have on me was to never stay in a Marriott property except as a last resort. Not only did I hear how unhappy members were with the changes due to poor notice but how unhappy they were on average for what recognition they received as a Platinum members.
75 Nights per year should be highly rewarded
I have appprox 150 k left in MR sitting around in that program from many years ago. Devalued programs have a long lasting impact the way I see it. For instance when I go to look at the Marriott Rewards chart I always see a program with minimal value except on some select extended reward stays
The work and cost involved staying with them not to mention recognition keeps me from doing business with them.
Where as with Hyatt and Starwood and IHG I can see good or great value even when redeeming for a single night on cash and points, points or promotional period rewards. Those primary programs on the whole deliver powerful value year round in or out of promotional periods.HH is particularly troubling to me especially as it had risen to a top program of choice for me over the past few years.
They come and they go as they say.
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__________________ American SPG & Priority Club Platinum
Hyatt/Hilton Diamond Omni Select Gold
IHG Royal Ambassador
