satori

I made tables last week on Loyalty Traveler showing the changes and percent up or down for VIP awards.

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/loyalt...pared-to-2009/

Disappointed to see the HHonors Representative and the info from Diamond Desk indicates a systemwide upward shift of hotels in the HHonors categories.

Crazy business logic at this time in my opinion.

Although, I have seen from my analyses of the categories for Starwood Preferred Guest that Hilton is moving its upper end more in line with SPG values. My initial results show Hilton is still a better value at most high level hotel redemption categories than SPG in quantitative and qualitative tables I have been developing on Loyalty Traveler for hotel loyalty points redemption.

JonathanIT

Yeah, this chart is misleading. It's pointless to compare the current levels of redemption to next year's in the same numbered categories... when we know they will all go up by a factor of one.

You should make a chart showing how each current category's redemption rates compares to the next higher category's rates coming in 2010.

Wexflyer

As has already been pointed out, I am afraid that your "analysis" is simply wrong and is very misleading. You are comparing apples to pears, as the 2009 award categories are NOT THE SAME as the 2010 award categories: all hotels are moving up a level, so you need to compare 2009 award level N with 2010 award level N+1. When you do this correctly, you will get a very different result.

squeakr

I've just caught up with the pages of this thread and I have a couple of requests-

• Please don't rag on each other. Tempers are high about this change but it isn't any poster's fault. So please don't take your frustration out on each other. Some FT'ers may not care about this change and that's their perogative. Conversely, it doesn't mean that posters who complain are being immature. It is a BIG change and IMHO was not implemented as fairly as it could have been.

• Please don't blame HHR for the change . The Hilton reps are doing as well as they can answering our questions and I for one would like them to stay around. Not that you have to be oK with the change or how it's implemented, but please be tolerant of what might have been misguided phrasing.

• I think a legitimate question to raise (which I realize may not be answered) is, "Can we see details of how the Diamond members who DID receive a free night were chosen?" I realize many diamond members with large spends are upset and IMHO it would have made more sense to offer ALL diamonds this night but maybe finding out how the decision was made would help a bit.

Thanks for your understanding.

squeakr
co mod HH

Explore

Bye Hilton. I'll be moving from Diamond to Silver after March 2010, then Blue.

I'm concentrating at Hyatt and IHG, where you get the best values, promos, and ease of making top tier. Plus a much easier res screen at IHG including your preferred affiliation rates right off the bat.

JonathanIT

But don't you think that is a question that should be discussed in the other thread pertaining to that topic? And it might even be a good idea to "streamline" the title of that thread as well, to clarify the distinction.

It seems to me that this thread should really be focused on the new changes to the HHonors program. There is a lot of cross talk going on in this thread about the "free night" when that is really the focus of the other thread. Otherwise, why are there two threads discussing the same topic?

seoulmanjr

Well, any devaluation sucks, but I felt like this was getting inevitable. For the last year, I've been earning points faster than I can use them with all the promos and have Diamond via the Surpass card. Simply put, the inflation in terms of earning and status had me expecting this. It stinks, but I'm one of those people who isn't going to change spending/staying habits over it. I can get top-tier via a credit card and I use the points to stay in some exotic places worldwide where Hilton has the reach that other programs don't.

With the number of points we're earning with the promos and Surpass card, the 15%-25% devaluation isn't going to really hurt us. I mean, we stayed at the Conrad Maldives for 175k points for 6 nights and after our resort spending plus stay bonuses plus the diamond benefit plus the Surpass card bonus, we earned about 175k points for the stay. When you see stuff like that, something has gotta give sooner or later.

I'll be sticking with Hilton, but as my travels take me more and more to South Asia and Africa, I'll be looking around since Hilton next to nothing in terms of options.

Whatever you decide -- good luck, FT.

peace,
~Ben~

DownUnderFlyer

My hope precisely. It is still possible that they look at the reactions and publish a new hotel classification directory which has a few hotels move down (=stay the same).

mnredfox

I agree, things have gotten out of hand with promos and handouts - all due to the lacking economy. Look at all the elite giveaways today, either spend lots of $$ or do a bunch of promo and you can be a plat flyer anywhere etc...

janetdoe

Not if Hilton makes more profit on the credit card spending.

mcgahat

As much as I believe the Hilton program has gone down hill significantly over the last few years.......

I do not think the point level increase is shocking especially since I always found the CAT6 hotels to be a great value compared to lets say comparable properties at SPG. Hey, we all hate to see the points requirement increase but I think they are still competitive. I will be interested to see how the hotels shake out in the various categories though as that could make a big difference.

satori

The chart is what it is.

I simply showed the change in points for a 2010 VIP reward in any category compared to 2009. The chart may be misleading with regard to the point that all current hotels may move up to the next higher category January 15, 2010.

Until we see the actual hotel placement within categories we do not know how widespread the changes will be. The chart is accurate in showing the points change for a VIP reward in 2009 and 2010 for the different HHonors categories.

I did not see a systemwide upward shift as Hilton HHonors plan when I created the table October 13, but from HHonors Representative post in this thread that appears to be the intent of the category changes. We will see in late December, early January how widespread HHonors makes the hotel recategorization. Maybe all Category 5 hotels will become Category 6 and all Category 6 will become Category 7, but we won't know for sure until the changes are published.

But Wexflyer - The table I created is not wrong.

I simply showed the difference in points required based on the HHonors hotel category which is either more points. less points, or no change in points required for a VIP award in 2010 for a hotel in any specific category compared to the 2009 rate.

The placement of hotels within these categories and an upward shift of all hotels is another variable that I did not address in that table.

In 2009 a 6-night HHonors VIP Category 5 reward is 150,000 points and in 2010 a 6-night Category 5 VIP reward will be 157,500 points or 5% more points.

Your criticism is that a current category 5 HHonors hotel will likely be a Category 6 hotel in 2010. You say I should be saying a current Category 5 hotel for a 6-night VIP award is 150,000 points in 2009 and that Category 5 hotel in 2009 will become a Category 6 hotel January 15, 2010. The points cost for a Category 5 hotel in 2009 of 150,000 points for a 6-night reward will be 180,000 points for a 6-night VIP Category 6 reward in 2010. That is a 20% increase in points, not a 5% increase in points.

The changes in points required for a VIP award for a particular category (the table I linked to in my post) is a separate issue from the issue of whether all 2009 Category 5 Hilton HHonors hotels will be Category 6 hotels in 2010.

I understand what you are saying and I will create another table to show the difference in points based on the assumption that all hotels will move up one category in 2010. HHonors category designations change annually and this coming change looks like it will be the biggest change in years.

Remember that while most hotels may go up in category shift with the new Categories 1-7, there will also be the normal recategorization of hotels that occurs annually. Some hotels in the HHonors family go down a category in any given year. Some hotels that are Category 5 in 2009 may well remain Category 5 in 2010 even with an overall upward shift in category level for HHonors hotels.

satori

Loyalty traveler blog today has a table showing the impact of the new categories for 2010 and assuming a hotel increases one category level in 2010 for VIP elite rewards from 4 to 14 nights.

There are plenty of reward stays showing points increases in VIP elite reward levels in the 20% to 29% range if a hotel in a 2009 HHonors category increases by one category level in 2010.

I think this is the table information "cjd" originally asked for in this thread.

allset2travel

Shoot! I was gunning for DIA since early summer. I'd better re-evaluate everything before I spend any more nights at HH.

cjd

Thanks very much, satori. The revised table, showing the upward movement of hotels by one level, was exactly what I was looking for. It is interesting to note that points required for 4-night Awards, the new 2010 Cat 6 is 3% less than the old 2009 Cat 5 and the new 2010 Cat 7 is only 7% more than the old Cat 6 level. Being in the UK and not being able to have the previous benefit of AXON awards, I have on several occasions had to use the full points for 4 night awards as we don't always want to stay 6 nights at properties. These new 4 night VIP Awards don't look too onerous for my personal circumstances. Hopefully, as you state, there will be some revision to hotel categories and not all Cat 6 hotels will become Cat 7, although the Hhonors rep seems to imply otherwise.