Programs: AA Platinum (lifetime), Starwood Gold, lotsa miles on UA and NW too, but just a basic member now.
Posts: 7
There are now no low-cost carriers flying between Hawaii and the mainland, so far as I know... ATA was kind of the last that might have fallen into that category. I've been wondering whether anyone else might jump in to try to fill that void, but it doesn't seem likely.
From what I've seen over the years, it's been difficult for any of the airlines to make money on their Hawaii routes. At one point I remember, American even briefly discontinued service to all of the neighbor islands, and cut back their flights to Honolulu. My perception is that AA and DL would have liked to pull out of Hawaii, but felt they needed to be there as so many of their frequent flyer members save up their miles with Hawaii in mind. The fuel cost for the mainland-Hawaii routes is obviously quite high, and lots of the seats are filled with non-revenue passengers. I think they see Hawaii as a necessary evil.
With fuel prices so high now, and unlikely to come down, we may see some pretty significant fare hikes over the course of the coming months. I'm guessing that the days of the $350 west coast to Honolulu roundtrip are not coming back. Maybe I'm wrong. If someone adds a bunch of capacity to those routes, things could change, but I'm not sure why anyone would be too motivated to do that.
Maybe somebody like Sun Country will want to come back to Hawaii, but I don't think they're in a position to do that - and I'm skeptical they could make enough money to make it worthwhile at today's fuel prices.
Anyway... I'm just rambling, I guess, but all of this could have a major affect on the quantity of visitors to the islands, and their demographics... I wonder if the folks who fill up the lower-end Ohana/Outrigger and ResortQuest/Aston type hotels will still be coming if the cheap flights have all gone away.
There are now no low-cost carriers flying between Hawaii and the mainland, so far as I know... ATA was kind of the last that might have fallen into that category. I've been wondering whether anyone else might jump in to try to fill that void, but it doesn't seem likely.
US/HP will probably try to be the cheapest now - they come up a bit cheaper than the other majors on most comparison searches I do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daviator
My perception is that AA and DL would have liked to pull out of Hawaii, but felt they needed to be there as so many of their frequent flyer members save up their miles with Hawaii in mind. The fuel cost for the mainland-Hawaii routes is obviously quite high, and lots of the seats are filled with non-revenue passengers.
With fuel prices so high now, and unlikely to come down, we may see some pretty significant fare hikes over the course of the coming months.
Agreed. And I think we'll see a lot tighter capacity control. I'm having a much harder time using upgrade certificates this year on NW's Hawaii flights than I did last year.
But given the choice between airlines that charge what it takes to cover their costs, or airlines that go out of business... seems like a no-brainer.
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I think of Delta as the New Worldwide Airline.
I found it interesting that the article compared AQ, HA and Mesa (as a whole)... and the numbers weren't at all favorable to Mesa. Of 20 airlines they kept stats on:
On-time arrivals: AQ #1, HA #2, Mesa #17.
Fewest cancellations: HA #1, AQ #2, Mesa #20.
Fewest baggage reports: HA #1, AQ #2, Mesa #16.
Fewest consumer complaints: AQ #1, HA #6, Mesa #14.
Unless go! is significantly better-run than the rest of Mesa, it's got some catching up to do.
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I think of Delta as the New Worldwide Airline.
Unless go! is significantly better-run than the rest of Mesa, it's got some catching up to do.
I would imagine that go!'s on-time ratings has to be stronger than Mesa's mainland flights. Assuming, arguendo, that go! has a great on-time rating, that must mean that Mesa's on-time rating on the Mainland must really stink. Must explain why DL wants to cut ties (at least partially)?
There are now no low-cost carriers flying between Hawaii and the mainland, so far as I know...
I know you were referring to US carriers, but I actually think the fact that WestJet from Vancouver flys to Hawaii is something to mention. Of course, as an international carrier, they cant fly domestically, but it would be reasonable to wonder if we might get beyond this mentality that international competition for Hawaiian routes isn't a good thing. Clearly the US carriers are making a mess of it.
There's also Omni Air Intl that operates scheduled charters 6 times a week from LAS for Vacations Hawaii. Most of the traffic is going to Las Vegas. I've heard of some long delays on these flights but the passengers are used to it...
Still.... not a low cost carrier...
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Champagne tastes on a beer budget.
There's also Omni Air Intl that operates scheduled charters 6 times a week from LAS for Vacations Hawaii. Most of the traffic is going to Las Vegas. I've heard of some long delays on these flights but the passengers are used to it...
Still.... not a low cost carrier...
OAI is better known for its troop charters.
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I think of Delta as the New Worldwide Airline.
There's also Omni Air Intl that operates scheduled charters 6 times a week from LAS for Vacations Hawaii. Most of the traffic is going to Las Vegas. I've heard of some long delays on these flights but the passengers are used to it...
Still.... not a low cost carrier...
Oh gosh. I wouldn't ever recommend OAI to anyone. Delays up the wazoo. Much worth it to pay whatever the going rate is than to be 8-32 hours delayed...
Hawaiian is proactively securing the loyalty of AlohaPass Elite members.
"AlohaPass Elite Members
We would like to extend your Aloha Airlines Elite status on Hawaiian Airlines until the end of this year.
Ali'i Silver & Gold members will be enrolled as Pualani Gold members.
Ali'i Diamond members will be enrolled as Pualani Platinum members.
To roll your AlohaPass Elite status* to Hawaiian Airlines, please follow the steps below.
Fax a photocopy of your current AlohaPass Elite card to 808-838-5304.
Be sure to include your current HawaiianMiles number on the fax. If you are currently not a member, join now and provide your HawaiianMiles number at time of fax.
Also, please include your name and contact number on the fax.
*Please allow 7-10 business days to process your Elite membership status. You will receive your Elite member card within 3 weeks after processing."
I just noticed that Hawaiian tweaked their policy on transferring status:
We would like to extend your Aloha Airlines Elite status on Hawaiian Airlines until the end of this year.
* Ali'i Gold and Diamond members will be enrolled as Pualani Gold members.
To roll your AlohaPass Elite status* to Hawaiian Airlines, please follow the steps below.
1.
Fax a photocopy of your current AlohaPass Elite card to 808-838-5304.
2.
Be sure to include your current HawaiianMiles number on the fax. If you are currently not a member, join now and provide your HawaiianMiles number at time of fax.
3.
Also, please include your name and contact number on the fax.
If you would like to start earning HawaiianMiles, apply for the Hawaiian Airlines VisaŽ card and, for a limited time, earn 20,000 bonus miles with your first purchase. Apply Today.
*Please allow 7-10 business days to process your Elite membership status. You will receive your Elite member card within 3 weeks after processing.
Programs: HH Silver, US Silver, CO Nonepass, AS Non-MVP
Posts: 4,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by daviator
From what I've seen over the years, it's been difficult for any of the airlines to make money on their Hawaii routes. At one point I remember, American even briefly discontinued service to all of the neighbor islands, and cut back their flights to Honolulu. My perception is that AA and DL would have liked to pull out of Hawaii, but felt they needed to be there as so many of their frequent flyer members save up their miles with Hawaii in mind. The fuel cost for the mainland-Hawaii routes is obviously quite high, and lots of the seats are filled with non-revenue passengers. I think they see Hawaii as a necessary evil.
You are exactly right! In the early 90's, AA was losing significant money on its Hawaii flights. They even stopped taking low-end tour groups, focusing on higher end American Express tour groups. AA's goal at the time was to MINIMIZE its losses on the Hawaii routes. That being said, it's a bit different now...with somewhat higher fares on the Hawaii routes. After 9/11, people shifted to US destinations and Hawaii was at the top of their list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daviator
Maybe somebody like Sun Country will want to come back to Hawaii, but I don't think they're in a position to do that - and I'm skeptical they could make enough money to make it worthwhile at today's fuel prices.
I was also wondering about Sun Country. However, their recent layoffs indicate a precarious financial position as well. Also, is there current fleet of 738's ETOPS-certified?
