I have heard this point before and it is well taken. I don't understand, though, if they played dirty indeed, how come they are not more successful? If they know the ins and outs, how come they are still not taken over the
whole market? Seems they stumble around with no particular goal in sight just based on pricing, or am I wrong?
They actually were successful. It was go!'s goal all along to take down Aloha. People claim that it was Aloha's management that brought down the airline. Sure that's a valid argument. AQ's management was poor in handling the airline when they could have a fleet replacement. But go! played a significant part in this as well. go! knew exactly what it would take to bring down Aloha, how much cash they had on hand, and what to set prices at to incite fare wars where the "legacy" interisland carriers could not keep up.
It was never go!'s goal to be tops in the interisland market. go! understood that Hawaiian would be tops. Rather, go! knew that if it could take out Aloha, they could then proceed to make a profit on interisland operations. They understood that it was a two airline market. And they priced accordingly.
Senior Moderator/As well as the Hawaii, the Hawaii-based Airlines, DiningBuzz, & Only Randy Petersen forums
Join Date: Jun 2000
Programs: UA 1P, bd Gold (earned this time!), HA Pualani Gold, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 20,560
Moderator's note: In order to keep this thread focused on AQ's shutdown and related discussion, I moved the posts on ATA's shutdown and its ramifications for Hawai`i travel to this thread: The effect of ATA's shutdown on travel to/from/within Hawai`i
cblaisd
Co-Moderator, Hawai`i-based Airlines forum
They actually were successful. It was go!'s goal all along to take down Aloha. People claim that it was Aloha's management that brought down the airline. Sure that's a valid argument. AQ's management was poor in handling the airline when they could have a fleet replacement. But go! played a significant part in this as well. go! knew exactly what it would take to bring down Aloha, how much cash they had on hand, and what to set prices at to incite fare wars where the "legacy" interisland carriers could not keep up.
It was never go!'s goal to be tops in the interisland market. go! understood that Hawaiian would be tops. Rather, go! knew that if it could take out Aloha, they could then proceed to make a profit on interisland operations. They understood that it was a two airline market. And they priced accordingly.
interesting to note that with Aloha and now ATA out of the way, Hawaiian is set to reap major profits from interisland and mainland flights. Scary.
__________________
I don't get paid for this. I do it for the good of the community. And Avis, screw you.
Programs: NW PE, CO PE, DL, UA 1P, AA, CI, IC PLAT AMB
Posts: 1,643
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezmonee
interesting to note that with Aloha and now ATA out of the way, Hawaiian is set to reap major profits from interisland and mainland flights. Scary.
That's exactly how I see it as well. And although I want understand the
go! situation a bit better having had it explained to me from various sides,
I still have no idea why go! would really plan something, which most
here describe as vicious and underhanded, something that produces
the exact opposite of what they allegedly intended. Instead of gaining
a stronger foothold, it seems that besides the obvious casualties, these
ugly mainlanders for sure are not coming out on top.
And a court makes them pay 80 million dollars to HA? I, for one, think
that HA helped creating something they in the end benefited from. They
had the inside track to convince a Hawaiian court to go along with their
game. That is what I call smart. They are the clear winner. Free money,
free routes to pick up and a bad guy to blame for nothing.
Not a bad conspiracy theory, me thinks.
__________________
PAN AMERICAN. GONE, BUT NOT FORGOTTEN...........
And a court makes them pay 80 million dollars to HA? I, for one, think
that HA helped creating something they in the end benefited from. They
had the inside track to convince a Hawaiian court to go along with their
game. That is what I call smart. They are the clear winner. Free money,
free routes to pick up and a bad guy to blame for nothing.
Not a bad conspiracy theory, me thinks.
Unbelievable. By the way, the United States Bankruptcy Court is a federal court, not a state court. Oh and I'm sure Hawaiian paid off Judge Faris in making the decision. So why then didn't Faris grant Hawaiian's preliminary injunction motion, if Hawaiian had the "inside track"?
Sorry, I don't have an inside track. But it still is a heck of great
conspiracy theory. Just open your mind a bit, if you can.
It seems to be you're operating under the assumption that go! wanted to be the King of the interisland market. But that's never been the case. All they wanted to do was get to a point where they could make a profit, not be at the top. They knew that a two airline market could turn profits on interisland flights because of simple economics: less supply, same demand drive prices up.
KO'ing out AQ allowed them to get one step closer to churning a profit in the AQ market.
Don't get me wrong, AQ's management has a lot of blame to share here. But go! clearly, in court documents filed in the allegedly corrupt US Bankruptcy Court, shows that this was go!'s plan all along.
Programs: NW PE, CO PE, DL, UA 1P, AA, CI, IC PLAT AMB
Posts: 1,643
Quote:
Originally Posted by slippahs
It seems to be you're operating under the assumption that go! wanted to be the King of the interisland market. But that's never been the case. All they wanted to do was get to a point where they could make a profit, not be at the top. They knew that a two airline market could turn profits on interisland flights because of simple economics: less supply, same demand drive prices up.
KO'ing out AQ allowed them to get one step closer to churning a profit in the AQ market.
Don't get me wrong, AQ's management has a lot of blame to share here. But go! clearly, in court documents filed in the allegedly corrupt US Bankruptcy Court, shows that this was go!'s plan all along.
I have always the greatest respect for your opinions and therefore will leave
it at this. You misunderstood me and my intentions. I am sorry if anyone was
offended by the clearly fictional conspiracy theory that I threw out there. See you in a different thread.
__________________
PAN AMERICAN. GONE, BUT NOT FORGOTTEN...........
i think its amazing a weak competitor as go!, selling 10 seats at $39 and a few per flight at $19 & $29 took out Aloha. I mean, how many airlines are matching Spirit and Allegiants $9, $19, and $29 fares? AQ and HA did NOT have to match any of Mesa's fares. Any logical revenue manager would have let YV get the "$39 folks" as they limited to seats and then competed on the $49 - $79 seats.
Kinda makes you think "touche" over what AQ and HA did to MidPac, Mahalo, and others when they forced $29 fares down those guys throats, eyh?
Any logical revenue manager would have let YV get the "$39 folks" as they limited to seats and then competed on the $49 - $79 seats.
I have to agree. The "we're losing money, but we make it up on volume!" model doesn't work very well. I can only guess it was a kneejerk attempt to demoralize go! into leaving by prolonging its losses, but Mesa was willing to throw in mainland money.
__________________
I think of Delta as the New Worldwide Airline.
