This is just so very sad. I didn't know my AQ 215 on March 12 was going to be the last flight on AQ ever. Like some others have mentioned, this all reminds me again of EA, NA, PA, TW and the venerable duo BR (British Caledonian) and AN (Ansett Australia). The demise of some evokes the same feeling as losing a close and beloved relative.
I flew LIH-HNL on HA this morning. I was expecting the worst as far as check-in lines and stuff, but it was really rather quick and easy. Before you even got to the check-in line, you were asked if you were ticketed on HA or AQ, and if you were on AQ whether or not you had already been reaccomdated on HA. From the there, people were directed accordingly.
I did see a bit more police presence inside the airport,and outside near the check-in gates. Not sure if they were expecting people to go nuts, or picket, or do whatever it is people do.
(Perhaps the demonstrations against SuperFerry in Niliwilli(sp) harbour spooked them.)
We're going almost on the same dates to LIH, May 24th - June 1.
I had been waiting for a fare sale, but as soon as Aloha made the announcement I booked the 4 of us on Hawaiian. It was expensive compared to what we paid in the past, but the piece of mind is worth it at this point. Paid $160 each all in.
I considered spending a bit less on Go!, but we would have to go to the other terminal. I also don't want to help the people which caused so much misery for the Aloha families.
This won't be too popular on this particular board dominated by the go!-bashers, but the reality is Hawaiian Airlines & Aloha are more the cause of Aloha's demise than go! There was nothing that forced these airlines to match the alleged predatory pricing of go! But, in reality it was Hawaiian that forced Aloha to match - because Hawaiian had a superior product and as long as they matched go! Aloha really had no choice - but Hawaiian did have a choice. Hawaiian also apparently was able to make money despite the lowball fares. Hmmm.
And one more thing - IF as Aloha's management kept alleging - the mainland flights were profitable, why did Aloha shut all passenger service down? (Hint: Aloha and Hawaiian gouged Hawaiians on Interisland for a very long time. AQ's transpac service really wasn't [as] profitable as they'd like you to believe.) All those principled people who proclaim they hated go! and never did or would fly on them - but instead flew on HA and AQ at the lowball prices are the ones to blame: go! - the DISCOUNT carrier - really had no choice to keep fares low so long as the entrenched carriers matched their price, and if these people really cared they would have found a way to buy full-fare or higher-fare buckets on the carriers they wanted to "support".
It makes me sick to hear all the "experts" and "analysts" proclaiming now Interisland fares have to go up. Doesn't have to be - but sometimes prophecy can be self-fulfilling.
Aloha simply was not being managed and run well: do some math - based upon the amount of money they lost in Jan & Feb, they would have had to charge about $100 for a one-way interisland flight to break even. Their costs & biz model just weren't sane.
go! - the DISCOUNT carrier - really had no choice to keep fares low so long as the entrenched carriers matched their price.
This is going to be a "Han shot first" kind of moment, but... I seem to recall go! being the first to cut fares. Correct me if I'm wrong? Would you like to argue that HA or AQ somehow forced go! to make that move in the first place?
__________________
I think of Delta as the New Worldwide Airline.
This is going to be a "Han shot first" kind of moment, but... I seem to recall go! being the first to cut fares. Correct me if I'm wrong? Would you like to argue that HA or AQ somehow forced go! to make that move in the first place?
You're spot on. When go! first entered the inter-island market, the lower fares were part of the press release. They fired first and then AQ/HA matched.
Programs: AA PLAT, US Silver, Hyatt Diamond, HH Diamond, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTravels
Yeah, but they've lost $1.25 million a month, on average, doing so. Which isn't very smart in the long run. If anybody is going to survive going forward, interisland airfares are going to have to adjust to reflect rising costs. And if that means some folks can't afford to travel as often, I'm sorry, but one airline running out of money and closing up shop on very short notice is enough.
So... I'd actually like go! and Hawaiian to set fares that cover their costs of doing business, and stop posting losses.
$19 and $29 fares are insane. I will agree with that. However, if the market is left with only one option, there will be a monopoly, and you can count on way above normal fares. Just ask those who use small airports with only one carrier.
I'm not saying keep on losing money, but I am saying that if Hawaii is left with only one option then the public will lose cause Hawaiian can set whatever price they want.
$19 and $29 fares are insane. I will agree with that. However, if the market is left with only one option, there will be a monopoly, and you can count on way above normal fares. Just ask those who use small airports with only one carrier.
I'm not saying keep on losing money, but I am saying that if Hawaii is left with only one option then the public will lose cause Hawaiian can set whatever price they want.
Nah, even when go! is forced to sell its assets to pay two $80-90M judgments, inevitably forcing it to leave Hawaii with its tail between its legs, I am of full faith that another carrier will enter the market (think FlyHawaii, if they can get their investors together). There's room for two airlines in this industry and for these routes. So a monopoly wouldn't last very long.
Programs: NW PE, CO PE, DL, UA 1P, AA, CI, IC PLAT AMB
Posts: 1,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by slippahs
Nah, even when go! is forced to sell its assets to pay two $80-90M judgments, inevitably forcing it to leave Hawaii with its tail between its legs, I am of full faith that another carrier will enter the market (think FlyHawaii, if they can get their investors together). There's room for two airlines in this industry and for these routes. So a monopoly wouldn't last very long.
I still don't get this. With go! you have already two airlines ( left ). Why
is the intention and hope to get rid of go! and then let another carrier in? vrichard is absolutely spot on in his analysis. There is something awry with thinking in the islands. First everybody complains that interisland travel is too expensive. Then a product like go! and as an alternative the superferry comes up and everybody is up in arms. If no one wants go! then ignore their cheap fares and pay HA whatever they charge. But pax flying these routes hope that go! has low fares so that HA ( and AQ in the past ) matches and then they use those fares on HA ( AQ ). How many millions of dollars have been saved by go!'s low fares? I have been in Hawaii when the fares were outreageous and everyone was hoping for a new and substantial entry from another carrier to open the market. That happened, and now most people on this board want to get rid of them in the hopes of a nicer, gentler competitor coming in? You cannot have it both ways, me thinks, just m2cw.
__________________
PAN AMERICAN. GONE, BUT NOT FORGOTTEN...........
I still don't get this. With go! you have already two airlines ( left ). Why is the intention and hope to get rid of go! and then let another carrier in?
People's dislike for go! doesn't come from their fares, their equipment, the fact that they're mainland-owned (heck, AQ and HA were sold and/or "invested in" so many times, I had no idea where the owners were any more) or anything like that.
It comes from the fact that they came in and "played dirty." That goes against a lot of concepts that are very strong in Hawaiian culture. And they've already had one court rule against them.
go! is hardly the only airline to play dirty and get caught at it. Look at BA's price-fixing-or-whatever scandal a year or so back.
If you play dirty, people will - and should question whether you're really a viable competitor. If you are a viable competitor, you should be able to compete without violating the law, or the public trust.
__________________
I think of Delta as the New Worldwide Airline.
Senior Moderator/As well as the Hawaii, the Hawaii-based Airlines, DiningBuzz, & Only Randy Petersen forums
Join Date: Jun 2000
Programs: UA 1P, bd Gold (earned this time!), HA Pualani Gold, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 20,588
Competition is good and it is appreciated. But it must be done pono. A competitor who illegally used data to compete, who had a enough cash that it could get away with such illegality, who said its intentions were to drive AQ out of business by predatory pricing, whose pilots are some of the unhappiest in the business is not a pono competitor.
go! joins the long, long, tawdry list of (mostly) American mainland companies who have felt free to pillage the islands for over 200 years. Shame on them.
A competitor that respected Hawai`i, that made it clear that it "gets" Hawai`ian values and history, that went out of its way to honor local leaders and opinion-makers would be very welcome.
Programs: NW PE, CO PE, DL, UA 1P, AA, CI, IC PLAT AMB
Posts: 1,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTravels
People's dislike for go! doesn't come from their fares, their equipment, the fact that they're mainland-owned (heck, AQ and HA were sold and/or "invested in" so many times, I had no idea where the owners were any more) or anything like that.
It comes from the fact that they came in and "played dirty." That goes against a lot of concepts that are very strong in Hawaiian culture. And they've already had one court rule against them.
go! is hardly the only airline to play dirty and get caught at it. Look at BA's price-fixing-or-whatever scandal a year or so back.
If you play dirty, people will - and should question whether you're really a viable competitor. If you are a viable competitor, you should be able to compete without violating the law, or the public trust.
I have heard this point before and it is well taken. I don't understand, though, if they played dirty indeed, how come they are not more successful? If they know the ins and outs, how come they are still not taken over the
whole market? Seems they stumble around with no particular goal in sight just based on pricing, or am I wrong?
This is an ALPA union release, what else would you expect? Log on to http://www.pprune.org if you care to find really unhappy cockpit crews.
But it is a job and most pilots enjoy what they do. Flying is a passion,
that today is a big money maker only for very senior pilots.
And, granted this has little to do with this thread, but as far as Hawaiian
values are concerned let me just say that and that's exclusively my own personal experience, I have never been more screwed over and "played dirty" with by more people than in Hawaii. It reached the point where I flew people in from the mainland to do honest work. But in the end I love Hawaii and love living there when I am not in Japan or Switzerland.
Also admittably, I never do interisland flying when I am there ( except on the NW hopping service ), but low, reasonable and affordable prices are a plus in my book. go! or Newbie.air, who cares? And quite frankly, I myself am not picky which airline I can take advantage of on a mistake fare ( published here at FT first, of course! ). Shows you my values. Scruples, anyone?
__________________
PAN AMERICAN. GONE, BUT NOT FORGOTTEN...........
Last edited by FlyinHawaiian; Apr 2, 08 at 7:04 am.
I don't understand, though, if they played dirty indeed, how come they are not more successful? If they know the ins and outs, how come they are still not taken over the whole market? Seems they stumble around with no particular goal in sight just based on pricing, or am I wrong?
There's an old saying about not attributing to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence. Maybe you've heard it?
Anyway, the two aren't mutually exclusive, and indeed, some folks are just blessed with both.
__________________
I think of Delta as the New Worldwide Airline.
Programs: NW PE, CO PE, DL, UA 1P, AA, CI, IC PLAT AMB
Posts: 1,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTravels
There's an old saying about not attributing to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence. Maybe you've heard it?
Anyway, the two aren't mutually exclusive, and indeed, some folks are just blessed with both.
Good point! I can live with that explanation. Here is to hope that air
travel remains affordable within the islands. Sometimes that travel is
necessary and not just a tourist option.
__________________
PAN AMERICAN. GONE, BUT NOT FORGOTTEN...........
Island Air was part of Aloha for a while (after being Princeville Airways( and recently was sharing facilities. Will they survive? I've preferred them to the others all along (but there's Maholo and Mid-Pacific as precedents for failure of turbo-prop efforts).
I've been able to answer some of my own questions from the Island Air web site. They claim to be separate from Aloha since 2004 and will be using HA facilities at locations where they were sharing. I wish them well.
Programs: UA 2P; SPG Gold;Avis PS;Aloha Silver (RIP); HA Premier; HH Diamond
Posts: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by gs-flyer
Hawaiian is proactively securing the loyalty of AlohaPass Elite members.
"AlohaPass Elite Members
We would like to extend your Aloha Airlines Elite status on Hawaiian Airlines until the end of this year.
Ali'i Silver & Gold members will be enrolled as Pualani Gold members.
Ali'i Diamond members will be enrolled as Pualani Platinum members.
To roll your AlohaPass Elite status* to Hawaiian Airlines, please follow the steps below.
Fax a photocopy of your current AlohaPass Elite card to 808-838-5304.
Be sure to include your current HawaiianMiles number on the fax. If you are currently not a member, join now and provide your HawaiianMiles number at time of fax.
Also, please include your name and contact number on the fax.
*Please allow 7-10 business days to process your Elite membership status. You will receive your Elite member card within 3 weeks after processing."
Faxed my AlohaPass Card (Silver) yesterday and my account is already updated on Hawaiian to show Gold. That was quick!
