<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FlyinHawaiian: Interesting point notsosmart but, what does it really have to do with the topic of this thread (Inter-Island Airfares in Hawai`i)?
If you are seeking discussion of your assertion, perhaps it would be better presented in OMNI (but enter at your own risk)
Aloha.
[This message has been edited by FlyinHawaiian (edited Mar 01, 2004).]</font>
Well, I did have a point I was going to make, but then I got myself into a tizzy about the subject matter, and didn't state my point clearly.
Basically what I wanted to say is that the islands already have their Wal-Mart airline: they're HA and AQ. In terms of a competitive business, Southwest is nothing like that.
But in the end, I think that the big problem is that Hawaii does not need two airlines flying around big fancy jet planes to all corners of the state, and to the Mainland.
On my last trip, I flew IslandAir from HNL to Molokai. It was a 20 minute flight, in a Dash-8, that cost $180 RT. I know that they must have made money off me then. And that flight was only possible becasue it went on to OGG with 90% of the passengers.
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OK, let me try and follow my own advice and try and keep on topic.
I really don't know the economics of running an airline. Interisland fares seem overpriced to me, I don't know why it should be more than $75-$100 or so round trip.
Certainly, operating B717 and (really, really old) 732s is not the most cost efficient means of running an airline. But, it seems the business model for both HA/AQ's interisland operations is to operate as a passenger and cargo operation flying a single type of a/c between the islands.
I think people who opine that Dash 8/CRJ flights are the way to go have some points - yes, less empty seats, cheaper to operate, etc. But then I look at Mahalo, Discovery, Air Pacfic, Royal Hawaiian, etc., all who tried to be a third player with smaller equipment and failed. And, really, the only difference is that they failed using equipment that was smaller than the jets being flown by HA/AQ.
It seems to me that Hawai`i is different than the markets WN or any LCC serve - there are no transportation alternatives for people AND cargo. Yes, you can freight items interisland via barge, but that takes days to load, transit, and unload. There are always going to be perishable and time sensative (mail, newspapers, animals, etc.) items that have to be air flown between the islands. And there has to be a pretty penny paid for this service. So, if this market is not going to be served by HA/AQ, then who?
And again, why would HA and AQ want to mix up their interisland fleets with different types of a/c, just to make sure they had the perfect sized equipment? HA ditched their DASH 7/8 fleet, AQ spun off Island Air and also got rid of their 733s a while back.
AQ is going to have to replace their fleet within the next 5-10 years. What current airframe is out there that they should go to?
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FlyinHawaiian: AQ is going to have to replace their fleet within the next 5-10 years. What current airframe is out there that they should go to?</font>
With the way things have been running... probably 764-ETOPS
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FlyinHawaiian:
I think people who opine that Dash 8/CRJ flights are the way to go have some points - yes, less empty seats, cheaper to operate, etc. But then I look at Mahalo, Discovery, Air Pacfic, Royal Hawaiian, etc., all who tried to be a third player with smaller equipment and failed. And, really, the only difference is that they failed using equipment that was smaller than the jets being flown by HA/AQ.
</font>
FlyinHawaiian, have you considered that perhaps these other outfits failed because HA and AQ made it impossible for them to succeed? Perhaps on a level palying field (say, everyone starts from scratch) an interisland carrier with small props would win out?
The very nature of a monopoly implies a very high barrier for entry into the business that is controlled by the monopolizing company. IMHO, RoyalHawaiian, Mahalo ( ) and the others never stood a chance.
BTW, in my very limited capacity as someone who is totally ignorant of how airplanes work, I think that the B717 is a great plane for these flights. Or would be, if it wasn't for the lease payments that HA has to make to Boeing.
[This message has been edited by notsosmart (edited Mar 06, 2004).]
The 717 (with its reasonable cargo) is probably the best and cheapest 100 pax jet to operate in those short routes. For thiner loads, we all know RJs are not an option due to their limited cargo.
I'll bet there will be 78pax Dash 8s Q400 coming in the islands eventually. They are actually faster than any jets in legs below 300 miles due to their higher rate of climb and reasonable 350 knots speed. Out of production Saab 2000s were even faster. ATR 72 also would be a valid option, albeit somewhat slower.
Hydro-Quebec operates (between its different dams in the province) Q400 combis that permit different cargo/pax mix. Even on legs sometime over 1000 miles long, they are getting good operating savings.
The question now is to get passengers to fly it on thinner routes.
Anyone who have flown the Q400 can comment about the ride?
[This message has been edited by YUL (edited Mar 08, 2004).]
Now we can finally say that both carriers offer the lowest price for inter-island travel... For a few years now, it's been Aloha with the lowest, booking thru their AQ Pass website.
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Fare sale on Aloha Airlines
Aloha Airlines presents the $149 FALL SALE!
Aloha Airlines is offering these great deals on travel between Hawaii and California!
Fares are valid for travel August 22 - December 15
Hurry - sale fare must be ticketed by July 29
Sale valid on select flights between Hawaii and California.
Select a neighbor island for an additional cost of $50 each way for a
single connecting flight.
Travel Between: One Way Fare
Tue - Thu Fri-Mon
Oakland - Honolulu $149 $179
Oakland - Maui $149 $179
Oakland - Kona* $149 $179
Sacramento - Maui $149 $179
Orange County - Honolulu $149 $179
Orange County - Maui $149 $179
Orange County - Kona $149 $179
San Diego - Maui
no biggie. ha and aa have had fares (on the routes i checked) that were the same or lower. if you go aq, better use a credit card, just in case.
Yes, HA and AA has this fare special also, but you have to purchase a r/t ticket. The AQ fare special can be purchased for ow flights also...which is uncommon for transpac flights to and from Hawaii, for this low price.
Honolulu - Kahului
Honolulu - Lihue
Honolulu - Kona
Honolulu - Hilo
Terms and Conditions
* Fares shown above are valid each-way and on non-stop flights only, not
including taxes and fees. Fares are valid for travel through 09/08/05 and
are not valid for travel on AQ5000 or Island Air flights. Fares do not
include the U.S. Federal Segment Tax (ZP) of $3.20 per flight segment (one
takeoff and one landing), the September 11 security fee (AY) of $2.50 per
U.S enplanement, up to $5 per one way and $10 per round trip, and the
passenger facility charges (PFC) of up to $18.00. Seats are limited and
may not be available on all flights. Sale fares are combinable with other
fares. Ticketing is required at time of reservation. The last ticket date
is 9/02/05. All tickets are non-refundable and non-transferable. Any
changes will be subject to a service charge of up to USD $25 per one-way
segment and any applicable charges associated with the fares. Fares are
not applicable to tickets already purchased. Fares are subject to change
without notice and other restrictions may apply.
Aloha's sale isn't too bad, but it looks like Hawaiian is offering WAY BETTER for the short term:
From Hawaiian Airlines PR:
Hawaiian Offers Special $55 Interisland Fare
HONOLULU – Hawaiian Airlines responded to a competitor's short-term interisland fare sale by introducing a special $55 interisland fare for new bookings made through its website, HawaiianAirlines.com, for a limited time.
Interisland tickets can be purchased with the special fare offer from August 31 through September 8, 2005, with all travel completed by September 15, 2005.
“We want to make sure that travelers know they can always depend on Hawaiian to offer the best value in the marketplace,” said Mark Dunkerley, Hawaiian's president and CEO.
The special fare, $60.70 each way including taxes and fees, must be booked and ticketed online at HawaiianAirlines.com and is being offered on all of Hawaiian's interisland flights between Honolulu and Kahului, Lihue, Kona, and Hilo, but may not be available for all seats.
Last edited by asu-ua772; Aug 30, 05 at 10:49 pm.
Reason: key emphasis $55OW
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Fare war! Hawaiian and Aloha post $39 fare
bizjournals.com
Fare war! Hawaiian and Aloha post $39 fare
Thursday March 23, 2:37 am ET
Aloha Airlines posted $39 one-way interisland fares Wednesday night. Hawaiian Airlines matched the offer within 30 minutes.
Aloha, declaring that it was rolling back the clock, unveiled "Funbird Fares" for travel between Honolulu, Kauai, Maui, Kona and Hilo, during the period June 9 through Sept. 30, if purchased from now through Apr. 7. The name refers to Aloha's 1960s semi-psychedelic design, which the airline said it will bring back on at least one of its jets.
Hawaiian, in matching the fare, said it would begin selling seats at the $39 price after 5 p.m. Thursday.
"For 60 years, Aloha has been part of the fabric of Hawaii, and Hawaii's people know us as part of their family," said CEO David Banmiller. "We're rewarding their loyalty."
"Our customers have always been able to rely on us for the best possible fares," said Hawaiian CEO Mark Dunkerley in matching the new ticket price.
Orange was the "in" color when Aloha rolled out its new Boeing 737 aircraft in 1969. The Funbird design featured a spray of bright yellow, gold and orange plumeria on the plane's orange tail, a swath of orange across the fuselage and the name Aloha in bold orange letters. Legend has it that the president of Boeing was appalled by the design but it was an instant hit with the flying public. Aloha ordered orange Flower Power uniforms to go with it.
"The Funbird brings back a wave of nostalgia and the fun of flying," said Thom Nulty, Aloha's senior vice president for marketing and sales. "When you see this plane flying from island to island later this year, you'll immediately think of the good times when everything seemed laid-back, and uh, groovy."
Aloha, originally known as Trans-Pacific Airlines, will mark its 60th anniversary on July 26. But behind the fun retro campaign is a serious effort by Hawaiian, Aloha and Island Air to solidify their positions before the Mainland carrier Mesa Air launches interisland service this summer.
Ok, what am I doing wrong. I need to go from HNL to Kahuliu Maui on
June 20 and return June 29th. When I check Aloha's site I still see only
$78.00 each way fares??
Fare war! Hawaiian and Aloha post $39 fare
