The one thing I don't understand is why the interisland airlines use 717s and 737 planes. For instance, most of the shorter mainland flights are now on regional jets that seat 50-70 people.
When I was in the Virgin Islands my American Eagle flight from St Thomas to St Croix was on a 50-seater.
I find it interesting that Aloha sold off Island Air. I think these flights are the wave of the future for the islands. I note there is also a small airline called Pacific Wings that sells seats for less than Hawaiian and Aloha. I have never flown this airline and have not heard much about it - but I will say that the fares are less. I also recognize that others have come and gone.
I agree it is the mainland direct flights that have put a partial dent in the interisland service (less passengers = less service)
Finally, the sad thing that does get lost in this is the fact that there is often a need to fly from the outer islands to Oahu for residents. The cost ends up being quite high for a family....at least here on the mainland I can drive Portland to Seattle. The interisland market can't do that as an alternative...
Like I said, in the end I predict that the Hawaii state government will someday subsidize or partially subsidize service between some points as it is just simply not cost effective for any airline to provide any service.
slippahs your replies make a lotta sense in most cases. As for using the nice full sized jets, if you ever notice the luggage bay loading you will usually see more packages/boxes/cartons etc than luggage being loaded. This is a very profitable business for HA and AQ. Also with the large amount of crap most tourists drag to the islands, I doubt if a RJ could hold it all with its limited cargo hold. It would have to be shipped in other planes to the distress of the visitors. All of the startup airlines I have seen come and go in the Hawaiian market have been turbo props.
The San Juan PR to outlying islands has shifted from full sized jets to mostly turbo props and it strangely goes well. Of course they don’t get hoards of Japanese tourists each lugging 6 big shopping bags full of gifts (unfortunately Hawaii aint getting too many anymore either).
The BigSix™ etc airlines are shifting flights to the outer islands because Waikiki has gotten so worn out and drab the NA visitors are increasingly avoiding it. And the airplanes now being used can successfully land/takeoff from the usually shorter outer island airstrips. This coupled with lesser maitaince (read: newer aircraft), lower landing fees, lower overhead etc has sped this flight.
Again I have great expectations/hope in real honest competition and until this really happens, higher and higher inter-island fares and reduced service will be the norm in Hawaii. Southwest will be good for Philly (actually I really have never flown them) and probably good for Hawaii. Costco, Wal-Mart, Kmart etc have certainly brought needed and reasonable pricing in hard goods and soft goods to Hawaii.
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by WebTraveler: The one thing I don't understand is why the interisland airlines use 717s and 737 planes.</font>
Cargo. You can't fly cargo in an RJ. (and a nod to MisterNice, who also noted this above.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FlyinHawaiian: Cargo. You can't fly cargo in an RJ. (and a nod to MisterNice, who also noted this above.
[This message has been edited by FlyinHawaiian (edited Feb 23, 2004).]</font>
But this gets to the root of the issue. Right now the airlines have cut back interisland flights, so they are running the available cargo on fewer flights. Since the locals want MORE flights it is possible that MORE flights could be added using the RJs to do so - seems to me that this would be an incredibly efficient way to do it. Additional flights could be added, but fewer passengers may be needed to make the flights profitable. Just my take on it
Many Hawaiians of Samoan ancestry and/or size (ie the ones bordering on the Sumo wrestler dimentions) would never fit through the door of a RJ let alone sit in/on a RJ.
I can see the senior Senator of Hawaii drafting up legislation BANNING RJ commercial service in HI.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MisterNice: Many Hawaiians of Samoan ancestry and/or size (ie the ones bordering on the Sumo wrestler dimentions) would never fit through the door of a RJ let alone sit in/on a RJ.</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MisterNice: Many Hawaiians of Samoan ancestry and/or size (ie the ones bordering on the Sumo wrestler dimentions) would never fit through the door of a RJ let alone sit in/on a RJ.
I can see the senior Senator of Hawaii drafting up legislation BANNING RJ commercial service in HI.
MisterNice </font>
Good point....but the islanders have been spoiled for years with jet service for a 20 minute flight.
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by WebTraveler: Good point....but the islanders have been spoiled for years with jet service for a 20 minute flight. </font>
Uh, ok, we'll bust out the canoes and start travelling that way like the good old days
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FlyinHawaiian: Uh, ok, we'll bust out the canoes and start travelling that way like the good old days</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FlyinHawaiian: Uh, ok, we'll bust out the canoes and start travelling that way like the good old days
I reference to lower fares thru internet purchases, but Hawaii residents not having extensive internet access, remember that in years past buying inexpensive interisland tickets used to be pretty easy. Between vouchers you could buy at local travel agents, and tickets/vouchers you used to be able to buy at select Hawaiian ATM machines, locals probably had easier access to the lower priced tickets that those outside the state. I don't know the background on why they stopped them, and I don't think ticket prices are lower because of it.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jwhite4: I reference to lower fares thru internet purchases, but Hawaii residents not having extensive internet access, remember that in years past buying inexpensive interisland tickets used to be pretty easy. Between vouchers you could buy at local travel agents, and tickets/vouchers you used to be able to buy at select Hawaiian ATM machines, locals probably had easier access to the lower priced tickets that those outside the state. I don't know the background on why they stopped them, and I don't think ticket prices are lower because of it.
Jeff</font>
Times change! Just like everything else, things change. The fact is that costs are much lower by distributing via the internet. The other fact is that neither of the major two were making money and other interisland carriers came and went.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MisterNice: Costco, Wal-Mart, Kmart etc have certainly brought needed and reasonable pricing in hard goods and soft goods to Hawaii.</font>
While Wal-Mart may have helped bring down prices in the Islands where it opened (for example, Kona) I would never advocate the opening of another.
Southwest may be a good thing for competition, because that's what they do: they compete.
Wal-Mart is a cancer on local economies, and for the global economy as a whole. I would go as far as saying that shopping at Wal-Mart or owning Wal-Mart shares is immoral.
