HA most unforgiving airline?
Sep 4, 2016, 8:29 pm
#16
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hawaii
Programs: Delta Diamond Marriott Platinum SPG Gold National Emerald
Posts: 171
Best food court option, by far, is Lahaina Chicken company buffett next to BK.
You can go from Paleo to South Beach or just local style meat and potatoes (with rice, mac salad and gravy!)
On the subject at hand, I agree, HA is extremely difficult to work with. It's a direct consequence of their success in being the surviving airline and the market being too small to bring in a competitor (so far, wishing hard for one)
Let's get started;
Their call centers have zero leeway and, so far for me, zero supervisory over ride.
Their frequent flyer program sucks, can't imagine a worse one, e.g. You can't buy upgrades with miles, you either use miles to purchase the entire ticket or you pay cash. And i've seen a few times where their load pricing results in Coach being priced higher than First, if that makes any sense whatsoever...
When I've had a PAID first class and I'm able to take an earlier flight, they'll let me go Standby, but then won't put me in a FC seat when they're available !!! This has happened more than once for me....
Finally, if you have to cancel a flight and they issue you a credit they don't send a followup email and you can't search it on your Account page on the website.
You have to write it down and remember it, then you have to call to get the credit applied to a purchase for which they charge a premium because you aren't using the website.
Am I missing something in my HA Puanani experience? Yes, customer oriented service.
You can go from Paleo to South Beach or just local style meat and potatoes (with rice, mac salad and gravy!)
On the subject at hand, I agree, HA is extremely difficult to work with. It's a direct consequence of their success in being the surviving airline and the market being too small to bring in a competitor (so far, wishing hard for one)
Let's get started;
Their call centers have zero leeway and, so far for me, zero supervisory over ride.
Their frequent flyer program sucks, can't imagine a worse one, e.g. You can't buy upgrades with miles, you either use miles to purchase the entire ticket or you pay cash. And i've seen a few times where their load pricing results in Coach being priced higher than First, if that makes any sense whatsoever...
When I've had a PAID first class and I'm able to take an earlier flight, they'll let me go Standby, but then won't put me in a FC seat when they're available !!! This has happened more than once for me....
Finally, if you have to cancel a flight and they issue you a credit they don't send a followup email and you can't search it on your Account page on the website.
You have to write it down and remember it, then you have to call to get the credit applied to a purchase for which they charge a premium because you aren't using the website.
Am I missing something in my HA Puanani experience? Yes, customer oriented service.
Sep 10, 2016, 11:14 am
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 403
Sorry all for taking so long to reply, hurt my back in the last day of Hawaii ;-(
Yes, this was all about Hurricane Lester as another poster eluded to. On Wednesday, Aug-31, all the weather reports showed Lester b-lining it RIGHT towards Kauai. Our direct flight was Sat Sep-3 from LIH-->OAK, and it showed Lester right on top of LIH a few hours after our flight would have left.
As I could not afford to not come home Saturday, I called Hawaiian Airlines pleading to change my flight (as we all know, their change fees are ATROCIOUS). They denied multiple times. I emailed their "main" customer service (you can't call them), no response (until Saturday).
Meanwhile, Friday morning rolls around, still, no waiver (though the storm was starting to veer off). I just went ahead and bit the bullet and paid for the change fees to leave Friday afternoon as they said there could still be weather impact. When we land, at 930pm PT or so, I see that Hawaiian issued a change waiver at around 3:30pm PT, or an hour AFTER the last non stop to Oakland already left (i.e., the flight we were already on). Meaning, if I had waited, I would have to have taken the original Saturday flight anyway (unless I suppose we scrambled to do a 1-stop in OGG Friday afternoon).
I wrote a letter to HA and they refunded me my change fees at least. I do understand what another poster said that this is their livelihood and they can't willy nilly waive change fees on all islands - I get that - but this is sort of sneaky and almost like a "Well, we did issue the waiver at least!" knowing that no one would take advantage if it given how late it was in the game.
Anyway, that's my story.
Yes, this was all about Hurricane Lester as another poster eluded to. On Wednesday, Aug-31, all the weather reports showed Lester b-lining it RIGHT towards Kauai. Our direct flight was Sat Sep-3 from LIH-->OAK, and it showed Lester right on top of LIH a few hours after our flight would have left.
As I could not afford to not come home Saturday, I called Hawaiian Airlines pleading to change my flight (as we all know, their change fees are ATROCIOUS). They denied multiple times. I emailed their "main" customer service (you can't call them), no response (until Saturday).
Meanwhile, Friday morning rolls around, still, no waiver (though the storm was starting to veer off). I just went ahead and bit the bullet and paid for the change fees to leave Friday afternoon as they said there could still be weather impact. When we land, at 930pm PT or so, I see that Hawaiian issued a change waiver at around 3:30pm PT, or an hour AFTER the last non stop to Oakland already left (i.e., the flight we were already on). Meaning, if I had waited, I would have to have taken the original Saturday flight anyway (unless I suppose we scrambled to do a 1-stop in OGG Friday afternoon).
I wrote a letter to HA and they refunded me my change fees at least. I do understand what another poster said that this is their livelihood and they can't willy nilly waive change fees on all islands - I get that - but this is sort of sneaky and almost like a "Well, we did issue the waiver at least!" knowing that no one would take advantage if it given how late it was in the game.
Anyway, that's my story.
Last edited by braddqq; Sep 10, 2016 at 11:21 am
Sep 14, 2016, 10:11 am
#20
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: BOS
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 479
Sep 26, 2016, 8:52 pm
#21
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Hawaii
Programs: Marriott Gold, United Gold, Hawaiian Platinum, Hertz Pres Circle
Posts: 8
In a feeble defense of HA, I will say that it depends on whether you're flying FROM the mainland.
Have an overyweight bag in the islands, no worries. Have an overweight bag in JFK, SFO, LAX etc...$50 fee.
I've found the mainland employees truly don't understand what Aloha is all about.
Have an overyweight bag in the islands, no worries. Have an overweight bag in JFK, SFO, LAX etc...$50 fee.
I've found the mainland employees truly don't understand what Aloha is all about.
Sep 26, 2016, 9:11 pm
#22
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend, Moderator, Information Desk, Ambassador, Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: FAI
Programs: AS MVP Gold100K, AS 1MM, Maika`i Card, AGR, HH Gold, Hertz PC, Marriott Titanium LTG, CO, 7H, BA, 8E
Posts: 42,953
In a feeble defense of HA, I will say that it depends on whether you're flying FROM the mainland.
Have an overyweight bag in the islands, no worries. Have an overweight bag in JFK, SFO, LAX etc...$50 fee.
I've found the mainland employees truly don't understand what Aloha is all about.
Have an overyweight bag in the islands, no worries. Have an overweight bag in JFK, SFO, LAX etc...$50 fee.
I've found the mainland employees truly don't understand what Aloha is all about.
Sep 27, 2016, 12:20 am
#23
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,132
Sep 27, 2016, 11:50 am
#24
Join Date: Aug 2007
Programs: SPG, Hyatt, Marriott, IHG, Hilton, AS, AA, JL, HA
Posts: 232
In a feeble defense of HA, I will say that it depends on whether you're flying FROM the mainland.
Have an overyweight bag in the islands, no worries. Have an overweight bag in JFK, SFO, LAX etc...$50 fee.
I've found the mainland employees truly don't understand what Aloha is all about.
Have an overyweight bag in the islands, no worries. Have an overweight bag in JFK, SFO, LAX etc...$50 fee.
I've found the mainland employees truly don't understand what Aloha is all about.
I've flown HA to/from the islands around 15 times over the past 12 years, so I certainly like them enough. Inflight crew are almost always pleasant, but the ground crew can be temperamental just like mainlanders.
Dec 4, 2016, 8:50 am
#25
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: kauai
Posts: 23
Things have changed
A long time ago (10-15 years) when Aloha and some of the other local airlines were still flying, Hawaiian staff were unbelievably accommodating. They still had the spectre of the old bankruptcy hanging there and there was competition.
Once Aloha was gone and Go was gone, they started cranking up the inter island flight costs though kept mainland flights pretty cheap, got more new planes and lots of new routes.
It's kind of like when Walmart knocks out the local mom and pop. They don't round the talley down so you don't have to dig for change or give your kid a lollipop but they have a bigger selection, a cheaper product, but also corporate rules that can't be bent unless you want to be disciplined. Employees of the mom and pop have discretionary control but that may also make them less profitable.
Can't have it both ways. Everyone seems to want Walmart prices and selection with mom and pop service and aloha. Can't be done. Profit or heart. Can't have both unless customer pays a premium and everyone these days expects the best but doesn't want to pay any extra for it.
Once Aloha was gone and Go was gone, they started cranking up the inter island flight costs though kept mainland flights pretty cheap, got more new planes and lots of new routes.
It's kind of like when Walmart knocks out the local mom and pop. They don't round the talley down so you don't have to dig for change or give your kid a lollipop but they have a bigger selection, a cheaper product, but also corporate rules that can't be bent unless you want to be disciplined. Employees of the mom and pop have discretionary control but that may also make them less profitable.
Can't have it both ways. Everyone seems to want Walmart prices and selection with mom and pop service and aloha. Can't be done. Profit or heart. Can't have both unless customer pays a premium and everyone these days expects the best but doesn't want to pay any extra for it.
Dec 6, 2016, 8:26 pm
#26
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1
A long time ago (10-15 years) when Aloha and some of the other local airlines were still flying, Hawaiian staff were unbelievably accommodating. They still had the spectre of the old bankruptcy hanging there and there was competition.
Once Aloha was gone and Go was gone, they started cranking up the inter island flight costs though kept mainland flights pretty cheap, got more new planes and lots of new routes.
It's kind of like when Walmart knocks out the local mom and pop. They don't round the talley down so you don't have to dig for change or give your kid a lollipop but they have a bigger selection, a cheaper product, but also corporate rules that can't be bent unless you want to be disciplined. Employees of the mom and pop have discretionary control but that may also make them less profitable.
Can't have it both ways. Everyone seems to want Walmart prices and selection with mom and pop service and aloha. Can't be done. Profit or heart. Can't have both unless customer pays a premium and everyone these days expects the best but doesn't want to pay any extra for it.
Once Aloha was gone and Go was gone, they started cranking up the inter island flight costs though kept mainland flights pretty cheap, got more new planes and lots of new routes.
It's kind of like when Walmart knocks out the local mom and pop. They don't round the talley down so you don't have to dig for change or give your kid a lollipop but they have a bigger selection, a cheaper product, but also corporate rules that can't be bent unless you want to be disciplined. Employees of the mom and pop have discretionary control but that may also make them less profitable.
Can't have it both ways. Everyone seems to want Walmart prices and selection with mom and pop service and aloha. Can't be done. Profit or heart. Can't have both unless customer pays a premium and everyone these days expects the best but doesn't want to pay any extra for it.
yes, an airline CAN grow and still retain its soul. Enter Alaska Air.
They managed to grow and still retain their own Aloha spirit. Competition from Alaska is the reason that Hawaiian has not been able to raise mainland fares. I tried Alaska to the mainland for the first time last month and found them great. Their employees have a "can do attitude", they generally don't nickel and dime you agressively, have reasonable change fares, a great frequent flyer program. They also seem to offer very attractive mileage partnerships with other airlines like Emirates or American.
Sadly, Hawaiian these days caters mainly to Wall Street and not to the island community it serves, or even the flying public, or to their own employees. I spoke to one of their senior pilots recently. "We are a much larger company now", he said, and "many of us are reallly unhappy for it".
Last edited by reikom; Dec 6, 2016 at 8:52 pm
Dec 6, 2016, 10:00 pm
#27
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend, Moderator, Information Desk, Ambassador, Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: FAI
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Posts: 42,953
Hi Chas,
yes, an airline CAN grow and still retain its soul. Enter Alaska Air.
They managed to grow and still retain their own Aloha spirit. Competition from Alaska is the reason that Hawaiian has not been able to raise mainland fares. I tried Alaska to the mainland for the first time last month and found them great. Their employees have a "can do attitude", they generally don't nickel and dime you agressively, have reasonable change fares, a great frequent flyer program. They also seem to offer very attractive mileage partnerships with other airlines like Emirates or American.
Sadly, Hawaiian these days caters mainly to Wall Street and not to the island community it serves, or even the flying public, or to their own employees. I spoke to one of their senior pilots recently. "We are a much larger company now", he said, and "many of us are reallly unhappy for it".
yes, an airline CAN grow and still retain its soul. Enter Alaska Air.
They managed to grow and still retain their own Aloha spirit. Competition from Alaska is the reason that Hawaiian has not been able to raise mainland fares. I tried Alaska to the mainland for the first time last month and found them great. Their employees have a "can do attitude", they generally don't nickel and dime you agressively, have reasonable change fares, a great frequent flyer program. They also seem to offer very attractive mileage partnerships with other airlines like Emirates or American.
Sadly, Hawaiian these days caters mainly to Wall Street and not to the island community it serves, or even the flying public, or to their own employees. I spoke to one of their senior pilots recently. "We are a much larger company now", he said, and "many of us are reallly unhappy for it".
Interesting analysis
Jan 11, 2017, 11:50 am
#28
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 578
Did quite a bit of HA flying recently. In one of the trips, the attitude of certain employees unfortunately set the tone in a negative manner in two ways.
The previous flight coming in was delayed, but neither the FAs nor the pilots were notified, so they were standing on the side. After the previous flight arrived and passengers disembarked, the pilots left to do their pre-flight inspections and whatnot. It took another 10 or so minutes before the GA had to come get the FAs to board. Not sure if there was a miscommunication, but you could see the irritation. The GA then went on to give one of the most aggressive-toned carry-on baggage warnings that I've heard to date. I understand and agree with the limitations, but there is a proper way to convey that in a service industry. This was the first.
The second, more bothersome part was when boarding, the GA was taking all tickets and phones to scan. However, she got distracted taking care of something else. Passengers continued to flow and started to scan tickets themselves (still thanking the agent). This resulted in a look of disgust followed by snapping "oh I'm sorry, should I just leave then?" The group of people near the front of the line were speechless in the way the GA lashed out. Stress and delays frustrate everyone, but this I couldn't believe the level that this agent showed. For a minute, I thought I was at a UA hub I do want to note that on other HA flights, the GAs didn't scan everything themselves, they just monitored luggage and to make sure every passenger got a ticket, so I don't think it was a breach of protocol or anything like that.
That being said, the flight crew and cabin attendants were just lovely. Hopefully this doesn't become a recurring theme as the airline expands.
Edit: I'll also add that that was only 1 bad experience out of 10 or so segments. Which isn't a bad metric at all, just sad to see from HA.
The previous flight coming in was delayed, but neither the FAs nor the pilots were notified, so they were standing on the side. After the previous flight arrived and passengers disembarked, the pilots left to do their pre-flight inspections and whatnot. It took another 10 or so minutes before the GA had to come get the FAs to board. Not sure if there was a miscommunication, but you could see the irritation. The GA then went on to give one of the most aggressive-toned carry-on baggage warnings that I've heard to date. I understand and agree with the limitations, but there is a proper way to convey that in a service industry. This was the first.
The second, more bothersome part was when boarding, the GA was taking all tickets and phones to scan. However, she got distracted taking care of something else. Passengers continued to flow and started to scan tickets themselves (still thanking the agent). This resulted in a look of disgust followed by snapping "oh I'm sorry, should I just leave then?" The group of people near the front of the line were speechless in the way the GA lashed out. Stress and delays frustrate everyone, but this I couldn't believe the level that this agent showed. For a minute, I thought I was at a UA hub
I do want to note that on other HA flights, the GAs didn't scan everything themselves, they just monitored luggage and to make sure every passenger got a ticket, so I don't think it was a breach of protocol or anything like that. That being said, the flight crew and cabin attendants were just lovely. Hopefully this doesn't become a recurring theme as the airline expands.
Edit: I'll also add that that was only 1 bad experience out of 10 or so segments. Which isn't a bad metric at all, just sad to see from HA.
Last edited by eeflyer; Jan 11, 2017 at 11:58 am
Jan 14, 2017, 10:17 am
#29
Join Date: Feb 2014
Programs: AS MVPG, HA Plat 75k, CA Phoenix Gold
Posts: 134
Flight crews and cabin attendants have always been most excellent. This, and Mark Dunkerly's leadership in expanding the company internationally during the last few years, I truly appreciate.
Last edited by Alex909; Jan 14, 2017 at 10:25 am
Feb 4, 2017, 9:35 pm
#30
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: PHX and LIH
Programs: AA: 2 MM
Posts: 85,519
Lousy Customer Service
Several months ago I paid for an upgrade to "Extra Comfort" for flights to and from LAX for flights that are occurring over the next two weeks.
Recently, I noticed that my seat was no longer in "Extra Comfort," but regular economy. I saw the little dialogue box on the web page, so I began a dialogue. (BTW, exact same thing happened to my partner - different outbound flights, returning together).
They apologized for my inconvenience and then told me they would put me back in "Extra Comfort" for the return and process a refund for the outbound as there were no available seats in "Extra Comfort."
I said that wasn't sufficient. Why wasn't the last person who had paid for "Extra Comfort," downgraded to regular economy? After all, had I not been improperly downgraded, that person could not have been upgraded. Absent that, it seems I should be awarded some bonus miles for the mistake. I was told that they could not offer any compensation whatsoever, but linked me to a complaint form.
I filled out the complaint form, explaining the problem and was advised that the terms of carriage made it clear that there would be no compensation for a "change in schedule."
How frustrating. I know better than to expect anything reasonable from Hawaiian, but when they don't care enough to actually read the complaint (or bother to understand it), it's pretty annoying. Further, since this happened to two of us on different itineraries and flights, I assume it's some sort of scam to sell Extra Comfort, screw people over, and then hope people don't request a refund.
Recently, I noticed that my seat was no longer in "Extra Comfort," but regular economy. I saw the little dialogue box on the web page, so I began a dialogue. (BTW, exact same thing happened to my partner - different outbound flights, returning together).
They apologized for my inconvenience and then told me they would put me back in "Extra Comfort" for the return and process a refund for the outbound as there were no available seats in "Extra Comfort."
I said that wasn't sufficient. Why wasn't the last person who had paid for "Extra Comfort," downgraded to regular economy? After all, had I not been improperly downgraded, that person could not have been upgraded. Absent that, it seems I should be awarded some bonus miles for the mistake. I was told that they could not offer any compensation whatsoever, but linked me to a complaint form.
I filled out the complaint form, explaining the problem and was advised that the terms of carriage made it clear that there would be no compensation for a "change in schedule."
How frustrating. I know better than to expect anything reasonable from Hawaiian, but when they don't care enough to actually read the complaint (or bother to understand it), it's pretty annoying. Further, since this happened to two of us on different itineraries and flights, I assume it's some sort of scam to sell Extra Comfort, screw people over, and then hope people don't request a refund.