Possible HA A321neo Routes?
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: BOS
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 477
Possible HA A321neo Routes?
So over the next few years HA will be phasing out their 767's and phasing in their new A321neo's as they're delivered. Clearly the new narrowbodies are going to be used on the old 767 routes. Maybe they will add more routes as well that may have had trouble sustaining a widebody before, like more flights from smaller west coast cities or more flights to LIH and KOA.
But what about the existing west coast A330 routes? Do you see any of those being retained once they get the narrowbodies? Or do you think they'll be replaced entirely by multiple A321 flights, leaving the A330's exclusively for east coast and international routes?
But what about the existing west coast A330 routes? Do you see any of those being retained once they get the narrowbodies? Or do you think they'll be replaced entirely by multiple A321 flights, leaving the A330's exclusively for east coast and international routes?
#2
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 67
I think HA is going to use the A321 to Tahiti and might double the frequency. Perhaps Pago Pago too.
The West coast flights with only one flight a day might get more frequencies or get flights to the neighbor islands.
Or you might get one A330 flight in the morning and one A321 in the evening to the West coast?
The West coast flights with only one flight a day might get more frequencies or get flights to the neighbor islands.
Or you might get one A330 flight in the morning and one A321 in the evening to the West coast?
#3
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Honolulu, HI
Programs: HA Platinum, UA Silver
Posts: 85
My predictions:
Replacing A330/763
HNL-OAK/SJC/PPG/PPT
All OGG/LIH/KOA routes
New routes:
OGG-PDX/SMF/SFO/SAN
LIH-SEA/PDX/SFO/SAN
KOA-SEA/PDX/SFO/SAN
Increased frequency:
HNL-SEA/PDX/SFO/SMF/SAN/PPG/PPT
LIH-LAX/OAK
KOA-LAX/OAK
Replacing A330/763
HNL-OAK/SJC/PPG/PPT
All OGG/LIH/KOA routes
New routes:
OGG-PDX/SMF/SFO/SAN
LIH-SEA/PDX/SFO/SAN
KOA-SEA/PDX/SFO/SAN
Increased frequency:
HNL-SEA/PDX/SFO/SMF/SAN/PPG/PPT
LIH-LAX/OAK
KOA-LAX/OAK
#4
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,574
Nothing official has been announced but the primary role will be to fill in the gaps from the neighbor islands to the west coast. A few routes that currently see 330s today will become 321s in an effort to add frequency/capacity. It's already been said that there will not be a massive drawdown of 330 flying from the west coast. As for the 767s it remains to be seen if they'll see 1 for 1 replacement by the 321.
The 321 will not be able to handle the cargo volume that is carried on both widebodies. So... where HA carries lots of cargo, you will likely still see the 330. This includes LAX, SFO, OAK, SEA.
For current 767 flying, I wouldn't be surprised if SMF and SJC see the 321. PHX is a bit of a wild card to me. I think it will go 330 from HNL and if possible 321 from OGG. It could end up being a 321 station if it can perform well. The 330 will go to CTS for obvious reasons. This leaves PPG which is an interesting case. Loads are healthy, lots of cargo is carried and the HA service is a lifeline to the folks in American Samoa. HA has always been shy to take the 330 down there, due I would imagine in large part to logistics and fear of taking the "new toy" down there to get beat up by the airport and birds down there. I can't see the 321 replacing the 767 completely for PPG though. Perhaps there will still be the need for maybe 1 weekly widebody and an increase in frequency with the 321. I do however, see PPT migrating to the 321 eventually with an increase in frequency.
Stay tuned... first delivery is next summer!
The 321 will not be able to handle the cargo volume that is carried on both widebodies. So... where HA carries lots of cargo, you will likely still see the 330. This includes LAX, SFO, OAK, SEA.
For current 767 flying, I wouldn't be surprised if SMF and SJC see the 321. PHX is a bit of a wild card to me. I think it will go 330 from HNL and if possible 321 from OGG. It could end up being a 321 station if it can perform well. The 330 will go to CTS for obvious reasons. This leaves PPG which is an interesting case. Loads are healthy, lots of cargo is carried and the HA service is a lifeline to the folks in American Samoa. HA has always been shy to take the 330 down there, due I would imagine in large part to logistics and fear of taking the "new toy" down there to get beat up by the airport and birds down there. I can't see the 321 replacing the 767 completely for PPG though. Perhaps there will still be the need for maybe 1 weekly widebody and an increase in frequency with the 321. I do however, see PPT migrating to the 321 eventually with an increase in frequency.
Stay tuned... first delivery is next summer!
#5
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,100
Will the 321 become a feeder bird?
Anyone think that the A321s will venture further than the West Coast, and pickup/dropoff passengers from secondary destinations.
For example, HNL<->LAX<->(pick one: DEN/ORD/ETC.)?
For example, HNL<->LAX<->(pick one: DEN/ORD/ETC.)?
#8
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Boston, MA USA
Programs: TrueBlue/Hawaiian Miles
Posts: 349
Any chance BOS might get an A330 when the 321's come along??? Sure hoping for one! But I know AZJ already knows that :-)
I hear that! Wide bodies are better all around!
Don't count this as 100% correct, but iirc from the linked article, HA's A321neo's will NOT be the A321neo LR variant but the standard A321neo
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...on-pla-417006/
Some numbers to think over:
PHX-HNL on GCMap is quoted as ~2535nm
The CURRENT sharklet equipped A321's range is 3200nmi (depends on configuration etc) so it seems to be well within reach with sharklet A321ceo's now-without my figuring in the high/hot limits that I know 757's have out of PHX
The A321neo and 321N/LR have respective ranges of 3650 and 4000-4100nm
So as it was mentioned before-it'll likely wind up beingwhether or not PHX can fill up an A330 consistently. Either way, you'll still have Hawaiian's epic service and aloha spirit!
Don't count this as 100% correct, but iirc from the linked article, HA's A321neo's will NOT be the A321neo LR variant but the standard A321neo
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...on-pla-417006/
Some numbers to think over:
PHX-HNL on GCMap is quoted as ~2535nm
The CURRENT sharklet equipped A321's range is 3200nmi (depends on configuration etc) so it seems to be well within reach with sharklet A321ceo's now-without my figuring in the high/hot limits that I know 757's have out of PHX
The A321neo and 321N/LR have respective ranges of 3650 and 4000-4100nm
So as it was mentioned before-it'll likely wind up beingwhether or not PHX can fill up an A330 consistently. Either way, you'll still have Hawaiian's epic service and aloha spirit!
Last edited by FlyinHawaiian; Aug 2, 2017 at 6:25 pm Reason: consecutive posts merged
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: HH Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 10,451
I hear that! Wide bodies are better all around!
Don't count this as 100% correct, but iirc from the linked article, HA's A321neo's will NOT be the A321neo LR variant but the standard A321neo
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...on-pla-417006/
Some numbers to think over:
PHX-HNL on GCMap is quoted as ~2535nm
The CURRENT sharklet equipped A321's range is 3200nmi (depends on configuration etc) so it seems to be well within reach with sharklet A321ceo's now-without my figuring in the high/hot limits that I know 757's have out of PHX
The A321neo and 321N/LR have respective ranges of 3650 and 4000-4100nm
So as it was mentioned before-it'll likely wind up beingwhether or not PHX can fill up an A330 consistently. Either way, you'll still have Hawaiian's epic service and aloha spirit!
Don't count this as 100% correct, but iirc from the linked article, HA's A321neo's will NOT be the A321neo LR variant but the standard A321neo
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...on-pla-417006/
Some numbers to think over:
PHX-HNL on GCMap is quoted as ~2535nm
The CURRENT sharklet equipped A321's range is 3200nmi (depends on configuration etc) so it seems to be well within reach with sharklet A321ceo's now-without my figuring in the high/hot limits that I know 757's have out of PHX
The A321neo and 321N/LR have respective ranges of 3650 and 4000-4100nm
So as it was mentioned before-it'll likely wind up beingwhether or not PHX can fill up an A330 consistently. Either way, you'll still have Hawaiian's epic service and aloha spirit!
#10
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Boston, MA USA
Programs: TrueBlue/Hawaiian Miles
Posts: 349
The former US Airways management said that the current A321 could NOT make it reliably from PHX-HNL due to the high/hot limitations. I remember several years ago that they asked Airbus to ensure that the 321neo have the range to make from PHX-Hawaii in high/hot conditions. And I think US was not referring to the neo LR version, but the standard version of the 321neo (easier for fleet scheduling purposes).
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: HH Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 10,451
I totally agree. However, since HA has left the 763 on the PHX route for so long, it may be a sign that the 330 would not be profitable.
Hopefully, I'm wrong although I end up on those AA/US/HP 757's most of the time because of time and fare considerations.
Hopefully, I'm wrong although I end up on those AA/US/HP 757's most of the time because of time and fare considerations.
#12
#13
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: EYW
Programs: DL GM
Posts: 302
This leaves PPG which is an interesting case. Loads are healthy, lots of cargo is carried and the HA service is a lifeline to the folks in American Samoa. HA has always been shy to take the 330 down there, due I would imagine in large part to logistics and fear of taking the "new toy" down there to get beat up by the airport and birds down there. I can't see the 321 replacing the 767 completely for PPG though. Perhaps there will still be the need for maybe 1 weekly widebody and an increase in frequency with the 321. I do however, see PPT migrating to the 321 eventually with an increase in frequency.
#14
#15
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: PDX
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Posts: 2,989