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Intl HA Flight, 9 hour mechanical delay, $100 travel voucher only?

Intl HA Flight, 9 hour mechanical delay, $100 travel voucher only?

Old Feb 22, 2015, 6:30 pm
  #1  
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Intl HA Flight, 9 hour mechanical delay, $100 travel voucher only?

I have a question about whether a $100 travel voucher is sufficient compensation for a flight that is delayed over 8 hours not due to weather. I was on a Hawaiian Airlines flight from Honolulu, Hawaii to Auckland, New Zealand but right before we went in the air, the takeoff was aborted due to an "unreliable airspeed indicator," which I later learned. After the sudden stop, the pilot told us he saw an indicator he didn't like and not to worry about the ground crew approaching us because they were only checking the plane. The cabin crew kept downplaying the situation without giving us any facts, telling us not to worry about the emergency crew or the smoke smell because it was "ummm, only smoke" and we could see people in suits spraying the underneath of the plane with water and foam. The fact that it was obvious they were lying to us when we could look outside and see commotion made the situation more scary than simply saying it was an aborted takeoff due to the airspeed indicator and that it was normal for the tires to overheat due to the braking.
So after about 2 hours on the plane, they de-boarded us with movable stairs and loaded us into buses. We had to wait until that night for another plane to arrive. They gave us a $20 voucher for food and some blankets and snacks. When the plane arrived almost 9 hours after initially boarding the first plane, we were given $100 Hawaiian Airlines travel vouchers to make up for the inconvenience. I have been told by multiple people that this is not enough for a 4+ hour non-weather delay. Also, once I boarded the new plane that I realized I must have dropped my NZ phone in the seat of the first plane.
When I got to Auckland I had my dad call the US number for HA and they said they had my phone but I needed to pay $75+ to get FedEx to ship my phone to me, and I paid less than that to buy it. Unable to call HA on a local NZ number, I sent them an email asking them to please waive the FedEx fee for me since if there hadn't been the problem I wouldn't have lost it, and I also mentioned that I heard a $100 travel voucher was very low for such a delayed flight. After 3 weeks I got a very snooty response saying $100 was enough in their guidelines and they would not waive the cost to release my phone to me.
So I'd really like some facts when I contact them again. Like what are the regulations on US International flights that are delayed for over 8 hours. Thanks for any help you can give me.
(link to article on the flight: http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel...aborts-takeoff)
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Old Feb 22, 2015, 7:03 pm
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Welcome to FlyerTalk! Sorry to hear of your experience. Since this post pertains specifically to Hawaiian Airlines, it will get better feedback here in the Hawaii-Based Airlines forum.

Good luck!

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Old Feb 23, 2015, 3:50 pm
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I heard about the aborted takeoff incident on the A330. The flight attendants might have been a little confused and stressed out, as they often are in mechanical issue situations, but I think the pilot did you all a great service with his quick command decision to abort the flight. You don't want to go out over hours and hours of water without being certain about your precise airspeed.

I agree that $100 is not a lot of money for the inconvenience, especially since you were on an international flight. $300 would be more in line with what some other carriers might credit (data point: Alaska Air credited me $300 towards my account with them this past December when we had to abort our flight to OAK and come back into HNL, followed by an 8 hour delay due to an issue with the starboard engine hydraulic oil system.) And there is the fact that you all were probably scared. I don't think you are absolutely entitled to get monetary compensation, but needless to say, Hawaiian would be smart to give you a reward that makes you feel treated so fairly so that you use them again on your next Hawaii vacation and tell your friends about it.

The situation with lost items on Hawaiian is a whole other story. I left my cellphone on a Hawaiian flight to Japan last year and it took me weeks of phone calls to Japan and Honolulu to locate and retrieve it (luckily I used to live in Japan and speak the language.) I also needed to set up the FedEx account at my own cost, which I think they should have waived in your case since you had the hardship of an aborted takeoff.

Last edited by Alex909; Feb 24, 2015 at 12:40 am
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Old Feb 25, 2015, 5:36 pm
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With discount travel sites, trying to use a $100 Hawaiian Airlines voucher would probably cost me more than it would save if I had to book through them.

It'd be nice to know what is actually required of the airline. It seems like airlines are always trying to get away with whatever they can and I don't want to be the one taken advantage of.
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Old Feb 25, 2015, 10:53 pm
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Originally Posted by jazzmie08
With discount travel sites, trying to use a $100 Hawaiian Airlines voucher would probably cost me more than it would save if I had to book through them.

It'd be nice to know what is actually required of the airline. It seems like airlines are always trying to get away with whatever they can and I don't want to be the one taken advantage of.
I am an engineer, not a lawyer, so I am hoping that others will add to my findings. I did a little bit of research and it looks like there are no clear guidelines for incidents like yours. Usually, the so called "Warsaw Convention" regulates airline liability in incidents like yours. However, the US court system seems to allow the collection of damages under Warszaw typically only when bodily injury is involved, which is not the case here. See http://scholarship.law.marquette.edu...4&context=mulr , especially the Eastern Airlines incident described on page 235. I hate to say, but I don't think that Hawaiian is obliged to pay.

If you still try to pursue this. Hawaiian has a consumer affairs office and I would contact them with your request: http://hawaiianair.custhelp.com/app/ask/c/372 . If that doesn't work, consider taking your story to the press, both in New Zealand and international travel journals. Conde Nast Traveler have an "Ombutsman" website where they help one customer a month and they have helped Hawaiian Air customers recover lost baggage and other things before.

Last edited by Alex909; Feb 25, 2015 at 11:11 pm
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Old Feb 26, 2015, 1:43 am
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Originally Posted by jazzmie08
It'd be nice to know what is actually required of the airline.
In the US, nothing.
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Old Feb 27, 2015, 5:33 pm
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Originally Posted by HNLbasedFlyer
In the US, nothing.
Apparently not.

"Dear Ms.,

We're sorry you were disappointed with our response.

You can click here to read our Contract of Carriage Rule 240, which explains what we will provide our customers during delays.

We confirmed that no customers received full refunds for this flight, only travel credits of $100 each.

Hawaiian Airlines considers its response to be fair and appropriate, and respectfully, we consider this matter closed.

Sincerely,
Rose Harman
Consumer Affairs Office"

In summary, it seems that there is nothing I can do and Hawaiian airlines sucks.
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Old Mar 2, 2015, 2:07 am
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United Compensated Aborted Takeoff Last Month

Here is a data point of another airline (United) compensating a passenger $175 for an aborted takeoff 2 months ago. Note: The passenger had platinum status with United, but was traveling at a low economy fare:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...f-iad-sfo.html

Not much empathy in the answer you received from the consumer affairs office. After all it was an aborted takeoff, a rather scary event for anybody except the most frequent flyer.

Last edited by Alex909; Mar 2, 2015 at 2:22 am
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Old Mar 2, 2015, 2:33 am
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While not useful to your immediate circumstances, I do think your case is an example of why we need a passenger bill of rights, similar to EU on specific compensation for such delays.

Rose Harman, speaking on behalf of Hawaiian Airlines, referred to the airlines CoC. No where that I read says $100 is the compensation you would receive. This, along with data points from other airlines under similar circumstances, suggests inconsistencies across the airlines as it relates to airline-induced delays, and more relevant, unregulated free-will to do this again and again with little repercussion. Obviously a history of this will result in bad PR, but an 8 hour delay could be 18 or 28, and the same outcome could be the same.
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Old Mar 3, 2015, 2:55 am
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Originally Posted by DBCme
Rose Harman, speaking on behalf of Hawaiian Airlines, referred to the airlines CoC. No where that I read says $100 is the compensation you would receive.
The point they are making is you aren't required anything - therefore, in their opinion - $100 is, what it is.
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Old Mar 3, 2015, 3:51 am
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What are HA Doing to Mitigate Future Problems with A330 Airspeed System

This is unrelated to the compensation question, but I am trying to learn from this incident and I can't help but wonder about some technical aspects.

The following incident report (http://atsb.gov.au/media/1360789/aair200601453_001.pdf) from another A332 is almost identical to HA 445: Takeoff rejected due to inconsistent airspeed readings.
Note the comments on page 9 of the document regarding problems with the A330 speed sensors. The report lists seven airspeed issues in a time period of three months, three of which were aborted takeoffs! Wasp nesting activity at Brisband airport was suspected as the cause, but the report states that no problems were observed on other manufacturer's planes during the same time period.

Issues related to incorrect air speed and other flight parameters (i.e. Angle-of-attack) continue to surface on A330 and A320. In 2008, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flight_72), then 2009,
(http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...idents-327738/), and (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447), then 2012 (http://airnation.net/2012/12/19/faa-...irective-a320/), 2014 (http://www.aeroinside.com/item/4946/...et-of-altitude), and now HA 445, a brand new plane (N370HA first flight Mar 2014).

These are just samples, there are hundreds of such incidents every year.

From these reports, either sensing devices (pitot tubes and AoA plates) or the joint processing of the signals of these devices by the algorithms of the various on-board computers, or a combination are to blame in each incident. The whole flight parameter sensing system seems to be the Archilles heel of an otherwise beautifully quiet and efficient plane.

I will be doing six segments on A330 this month, four on HA, and it would be great to know what HA are doing to mitigate future airspeed discrepancy problems with the A330s (e.g. regular pre-flight pitot probe inspections for tiny debris or moisture, pitot tube covers, pitot tube manufacturer)? How are pilots trained to counteract speed and AoA sensing failures which potentially can occur in both takeoff and cruise?

Last edited by Alex909; Mar 7, 2015 at 11:12 am Reason: More research
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Old Mar 3, 2015, 4:05 am
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Originally Posted by HNLbasedFlyer
The point they are making is you aren't required anything - therefore, in their opinion - $100 is, what it is.
Exactly. And the fact they choose $100 when other airlines in similar circumstances choose different amounts highlight the lack of uniform consumer protections ( in the United States ).
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Old Mar 3, 2015, 4:36 am
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Originally Posted by DBCme
Exactly. And the fact they choose $100 when other airlines in similar circumstances choose different amounts highlight the lack of uniform consumer protections ( in the United States ).
+1. This is an area where regulation would at least establish some boundaries.

I also think $100 is, from a consumer psychological standpoint, not so well chosen. Too little to make one feel "respected", but enough so that one starts to wonder if one is being "treated fairly" etc. This might do more damage than not paying anything and rewarding passengers in some other way (free hotel night on future trip, a nice Zig Zane shirt Just my 2 cents.

Last edited by Alex909; Mar 3, 2015 at 12:16 pm
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Old Mar 3, 2015, 2:11 pm
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My wife and I had a similar experience on Hawaiian out of LAX. We were flying first class. Awful Customer Service. Coach and First Class all received same $100 off certificate. I contacted Hawaii Customer Affairs office and received a "tough luck" cold shoulder. We will not use certificate or buy Hawaiian Air tickets again!
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Old Mar 4, 2015, 11:54 am
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Originally Posted by 1st Cav Vet
My wife and I had a similar experience on Hawaiian out of LAX. We were flying first class. Awful Customer Service. Coach and First Class all received same $100 off certificate. I contacted Hawaii Customer Affairs office and received a "tough luck" cold shoulder. We will not use certificate or buy Hawaiian Air tickets again!
Just checking: Were you possibly on HA33 which was diverted to SFO on Jan. 27? Do you possibly remember what the reason for the diversion was? Thanks.
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