pashber

There's a lot of stuff that's been written on Hawaiian's arbitrary and capricious baggage fee charges, but I haven't see this one specifically. DH and I flew out 12/14 on HA 327 from KOA to HNL using a United FF award (5K vs. 10K miles per ticket with HA). On United's confirmation itinerary, there is a paragraph on applicable baggage fees. Here it is:

Baggage allowance and charges for this itinerary.
Baggage fees are per traveler

In compliance with U.S. Department of Transportation regulations, checked baggage policies for your entire itinerary are determined by Hawaiian Airlines. Visit united.com/baggage for more information.

Origin and destination for checked baggage 1st bag 2nd bag Max wt / dim per piece
12/14/2013 Kona, HI (KOA) to Honolulu, HI (HNL) 17.00 USD 17.00 USD 50.0lbs (23.0kg) - 62.0in (158.0cm)

However, we were charged $25 for checking in one bag. When I pointed to the $17 language, the agent told us that only tickets issued by HA would get the $17 charge; tickets booked by any other airline (meaning United specifically) would get charged $25.

I also filed a complaint with their customer service online, and was told that the $25 fee was correct because United's fee applied (because they were the marketing carrier) and that their fee was $25, so that's what we were charged.

Something doesn't square right. The point is, my ticket states that the charge would be $17, and that is what I should have been charged. Was it HA, or United, that violated the DOT rule on baggage charges?

Phoenixtinct

There are only 2 scenarios under which you should have been charged $25 instead of $17:

1 - This was a round-trip award (you only mention KOA-HNL, so seems unlikely) and the outbound was on United, so their baggage rules/fees apply and if you're not a Premier member, you would be liable for $25/bag

2 - KOA-HNL was booked as an United codeshare. According to united.com:

UA 7789-7878 are operated by Hawaiian Airlines

So, as United being the marketing carrier, their baggage rules would apply and absent Premier status, it would be $25 per bag instead of $17.

However, Hawaiian is wrong due to the fact that codeshares are not allowed to be booked as an award (they probably overlooked that and simply saw it was an United ticket) and since you booked an award ticket, your itinerary would have shown HA flight number and not UA. Thus, I would point that out to them and if they are unwilling to resolve it for you, file a DOT complaint. They should be more responsive that way.

I booked a HA award using AA miles earlier this year and once again, it was a HA flight on another carrier's ticket and they did charge me a baggage fee but upon consulting my credit card, they indeed charged me the correct amount of $17 and not $25. So, United quoted you correctly that the checked bag charge is $17 per bag for the first 2 bags.

You can send a message to United as well saying something like:

I booked an award using my United MileagePlus miles on Hawaiian and was quoted that the baggage fees will be $17 per bag for the first 2 bags, however, when I arrived at KOA, the HA agent charged me $25 per bag stating that it was an United ticket and not Hawaiian and thus, United baggage rules apply, I. e. $25 for 1 checked bag. I would like to request a refund for the overpayment as I was misled to believe it would only cost me $17 to check a bag and I was charged $25 instead.

See what happens when United responds - they may refer you back to HA. Either way, by contacting HA again or UA or the DOT, one of them will be able to resolve this for you. Be persistent and it will all work out. Good Luck and happy holidays!

Often1

1. The fees for the marketing carrier of the first segment apply to the itinerary. But, the e-ticket receipt must also clearly disclose the baggage fees.

2. If the proper fee is $25 and the e-ticket receipt specifies $17, HA is justified in collecting $25, but the $8 difference is between HA and UA to sort out. The consumer need only pay the $17.

3. OP did the right thing here. Pay up. Fighting with low-level carrier personnel is fruitless.

4. Wasting time by calling in over $8 is also fruitless. Just send in a webform complaint, asking for the $8 refund. Wait a few business days and, if you do not see a refund: a) dispute $8 on your CC; and b) file a webform complaint with DOT.

HA counts on the fact that the vast majority of people won't waste time getting in a fight. And, they are correct. This sort of stuff takes about 2 minutes for the CC dispute and the same for DOT. Lengthy conversations with anybody you can speak with at an airport or on the phone are pointlless and simply eat your own time.

pashber

Hi, Phoenixtinct and Often1,

Thanks for your detailed and constructive responses. To clear up any confusion, I booked the United award separately from the other portions of my Hawaii itinerary (utilizing another United award, along with BA using Alaska miles). I used United and BA because the required award mileage was significantly less than I would have had to use (20k+5k+12.5k per ticket, versus 25k +10k + 30k per ticket on HA). This was a bummer because I have over 150K miles on Hawaiian that are turning out to be difficult to use.

Per your specific question, Phoenixtinct, this was NOT a codeshare flight. My ticket, issued by United, was specifically for HA 327.

In any event--after receiving HA's initial denial, I wrote back and received the following response today:

"We received your amended complaint on December 24 from the Department of Transportation regarding your baggage. We understand you are disappointed with our response. As previously stated, airlines are required to apply the marketing carrier’s baggage rules for each segment of the passenger’s trip. Your ticket was purchased on United Airlines ticket stock which means that you are subject to United Airlines baggage fees.

United Airlines assesses $25 for the first checked baggage, and $35 for the second checked baggage per person for passengers traveling in coach. While you may have been traveling on Hawaiian Airlines, because the ticket was issued by United Airlines, their bag fees apply. We understand you have documents that state otherwise, however based on the above, you were charged accordingly by Hawaiian Airlines.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. However, based on the facts of your case, we consider our decision to be fair and appropriate. Respectfully, we consider this matter closed.

Mahalo,
[Name of non-executive staffer redacted per FT TOS]

Resolution Coordinator
Hawaiian Airlines, Consumer Affairs Office"

Phoenixtinct, I was not aware of the codeshare issue you brought up when I submitted my appeal, so I will follow-up with a quick reply, although HA has shown their true colors. I will also amend my DOT complaint to include that information. I also submitted a separate complaint to DOT about United in order to get them into the picture.

BTW, this is NOT my first tussle with HA regarding baggage fees for partner-issued tickets. Last year, they charged me $120 to check in 4 bags when we were travelling on an AA award which took us from Osaka to HNL (layover of several weeks), then on to SEA. I submitted a complaint to DOT and HA almost immediately (for them) refunded the fees. This one is turning out to be a harder nut to crack. However, I intend to pursue this matter. If more passengers took the time to file a DOT complaint (which doesn't take more than 10 minutes), then SOME action might be taken against HA to cease these abusive practices.

HNLbasedFlyer

I'm not sure why your beef is with HA - they charged you the correct fee, $25 which is the fee for the marketing carrier. Your beef should be with United for giving you false bag fee information on the itinerary and they should refund the $8.

pashber

So you are saying that Phoenixtinct's discussion on codeshare flights is incorrect?

pashber

I don't know when AMEX instituted this policy, but when I tried to enter a dispute on the baggage fee issue, I got this response:



Our records indicate this transaction is associated with special services provided by the airlines, such as checked / excess / overweight baggage, advanced seat assignment or travel modifications made within 24 hours of departure. These special services were pre-purchased online or with an airline agent and are non-refundable.
Please contact the airline directly with any questions you may have or to dispute the charges. We realize this may not be the response you hoped for, but trust you will understand that we must abide by the merchant's policies.
If you wish to initiate a billing inquiry at a later date or check the status of an Open Inquiry or the details of a Closed Inquiry, please visit us online through the Inquiry & Dispute Center.
You may return to the Inquiry and Dispute Center by clicking here. Please bookmark this URL for future reference.

Looks like I might have to send snail mail to get this dispute entered into AMEX's system.

HNLbasedFlyer

The marketing carrier is the carrier that sold the ticket. HA is the operating carrier. This is regardless if your ticket says a HA or UA flight number - if the ticket stock is 016 then UA is the marketing carrier.

mikew99

There seems to be some confusion about the definition of the "marketing carrier" with respect to baggage fees:

(1) Is it the airline whose ticket number/stock was used? (UA in the OP's case.)
(2) Or is it the airline whose code and flight number were used? (HA in the OP's case.)

An answer lies in the DOT FAQ on Rule #2, which is available here: http://airconsumer.dot.gov/rules/rules.htm

Because the OP's ticket shows HA's code and flight number as the first operating carrier, it is clear that the DOT considers HA to be the marketing carrier for the first segment, and HA's baggage rules apply. So, Phoenixtinct's analysis is correct, and HA violated DOT regulations by collecting UA's baggage fees in this case.

OP, hope this information helps you to make things right!

HNLbasedFlyer

No, no, and no.

It is who the sold the ticket. That is the marketing carrier. Period. Marketing carrier is who sold the ticket - regardless of who the operating carrier is.

You can't cherry pick examples as who sold the ticket override the examples you gave. Op said it wasn't a codeshare nor an interline - therefore, your examples don't apply. It is a ticket sold by another carrier.

mikew99

UA has an interline ticketing agreement with HA and, as the ticketing agent, must disclose the relevant baggage charges to the consumer at the time of purchase. UA has already determined that those of HA apply to the OP's itinerary. UA defines the "marketing carrier" here:

So, for the purposes of determining baggage charges, who sold the ticket does not seem to have anything to do with who is the marketing carrier.

3Cforme

You're confusing ticketing carrier - the 016 ticket stock - and marketing carrier. Marketing carrier is the code identified by flight segment.

The DOT baggage regs cited by Often1 and Phoenixtinct are tied to marketing carrier, not ticketing carrier.

LIH Prem

I have confirmation for a UA issued interisland one-way award ticket on HA from OGG-LIH. Flight# is the HA flight#.

I'm a 1K on UA. Which makes no difference for the bag fees I would be subject to on this flight, An HA marketed and operated flight, on an HA only itinerary.

The baggage fees are listed as first bag: $17, second bag: $17

I believe that the fees listed above are correct if I were to check any bags.

No idea why you were charged $25 or why your confirmation lists the bag fees as $0, both seem wrong. I think HA charges $25 for checking a bag to the mainland.

-David

HNLbasedFlyer

I believe the real culprit is that the united site and ticketing is incorrectly showing the HA flight on the ticket when it should be showing a codeshare.

mikew99

For paid tickets, I have seen both (sometimes even at different prices). But the OP booked an award ticket. My UA awards always have been booked under the code and flight number of the operating carrier, not a code share. (This is just an observation; I'm not sure if it always has to be this way.)