New HA Hub at OGG

Old Jan 18, 2012, 1:40 am
  #16  
 
 
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Originally Posted by sylvas808
5/23 is just under 5000 ft long, I'm not sure on the exact specs for the 717's but I believe they could land and depart on that runway, but it would be pretty tight.
Yes, it's 4990', and runway 2/20 is 6995'

5/23 is too short for any mainland bound flight, right? (757, 767, 777, ...)

Though the 757s can take off on pretty short runways, don't know if 5,000' is enough.

Anyway it will be interesting to see how they decide to rebuild 2/20 if/when ... (we know the FAA is starting to make noise about it.)

-David

Last edited by LIH Prem; Jan 18, 2012 at 1:58 am
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 3:24 pm
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My local airport, PVD, is facing runway extension now. Very long process. It has been maybe ten years since they started discussions. If there are no more protests, we could have a longer runway by 2015.

PVD is very similar to OGG. If runway extension happens, the work would have to be done at night. There is no other choice.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 7:27 pm
  #18  
 
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I believe one of the ideas was for them to take 2/20 out of service completely for a few months to expedite the process and have the mainland flights land in kona or hilo. Then they would use 717's and RJ's to ferry passengers to maui landing on 5/23, not sure if that's gonna be the case or if they will do the night time repairs but either way something should be done before the runway completely falls apart.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 3:40 am
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Originally Posted by sylvas808
I believe one of the ideas was for them to take 2/20 out of service completely for a few months to expedite the process and have the mainland flights land in kona or hilo. Then they would use 717's and RJ's to ferry passengers to maui landing on 5/23, not sure if that's gonna be the case or if they will do the night time repairs but either way something should be done before the runway completely falls apart.
That would be ridiculous, and it would kill the economy here. Plus Maui has a ton of mainland flights, I doubt any one airline could handle that, and who would pay for ferrying people over? That's just not going to happen, it's ridiculous.

Repairs (and extensions) aren't the issue, the feds don't want to patch it anymore, they say OGG needs a new runway, so they will have to do it in small sections at night when they finally get around to actually doing it. Or build a completely new runway, which would face all sorts of local opposition and take years to approve and longer for the inevitable court challenges, so I doubt that will happen any time soon either.

Anyway, it will be interesting to watch the planning process.

The Maui Now article mentions extending the other runway. http://mauinow.com/2011/12/12/faa-to...aced%E2%80%9D/

ah, there's a meeting on Monday 1/23 ... http://mauinow.com/2012/01/16/kahulu...oming-meeting/

-David

Last edited by LIH Prem; Jan 19, 2012 at 3:53 am
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 8:10 am
  #20  
 
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If the runway is not repaired/expanded, the Feds will ultimately shut it down. The NIMBY's will be jumping for joy that they have "saved" Maui from the threat of modern life. No Super Ferry, no planes, no tourists, no jobs. Way to go.
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 5:34 am
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Gald the NIMBYS just aren't in Rhode Island. The problem in R.I. is that when they built PVD in 1929, they put it in a field in the City of Warwick. Well, the City of Warwick has grown up around the airport. With runway extension on the horizon, they will have to buy houses, businesses, move roads, etc. Should the airport be moved? Maybe. But if it did, the City of Warwick would be without a huge resource for revenue (car rental agencies, hotels, etc)

As for OGG, there really isn't anything around it. They can add length to both runways without a major issue. I can understand the locals being upset. When we first went to Maui in 1994, it was amazing. The last time we were on Maui was 2008 (then again in 3 weeks), it was built up. Still a beautiful place to be but not the Maui I first saw. The thing is alot of stuff is shipped via the airlines. If they don't at the very least repair the main runway, alot of folks will suffer with hirer shipping costs. As we know most of the mainstays come in via ship.

The question has to be raised, do the Feds want a longer runway or a repair job? They can go hand in hand but they are two different animals with different approaches. Over here, the Feds wanted the longer runway.
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 5:36 am
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Originally Posted by Aloha1
If the runway is not repaired/expanded, the Feds will ultimately shut it down.
That's not going to happen either. Let's keep it real.

Originally Posted by Bishope2
The question has to be raised, do the Feds want a longer runway or a repair job? They can go hand in hand but they are two different animals with different approaches. Over here, the Feds wanted the longer runway.
The only thing the Feds are saying is that they don't want to fund any more repaving (patching) for 2/20, they say that 2/20 needs to be replaced/rebuilt. I don't think this is about an extension, other than one of the alternatives for the rebuild would be to extend the short runway (5/23) so it can handle the traffic that 2/20 normally handles during the rebuild. Anyway, we'll find out Monday night or shortly thereafter.

I don't know if I can make it to that meeting, but we will at least get some news posted about the alternatives being discussed.

-David

Last edited by LIH Prem; Jan 22, 2012 at 5:43 am
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 8:13 am
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Originally Posted by LIH Prem
That's not going to happen either. Let's keep it real.



The only thing the Feds are saying is that they don't want to fund any more repaving (patching) for 2/20, they say that 2/20 needs to be replaced/rebuilt. I don't think this is about an extension, other than one of the alternatives for the rebuild would be to extend the short runway (5/23) so it can handle the traffic that 2/20 normally handles during the rebuild. Anyway, we'll find out Monday night or shortly thereafter.

I don't know if I can make it to that meeting, but we will at least get some news posted about the alternatives being discussed.

-David
I never underestimate what the Government is capable of doing

Glad you are going to the meeting as I'm off island right now. Please keep us informed. IMHO, the smart thing is to rebuild the runway and extend it so that the newer planes can get in without weight restrictions.
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Old Jan 23, 2012, 12:23 am
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http://www.mauinews.com/page/content...ks.html?nav=10 details the different options being considered.

In my personal opinion lengthening both runways would be the best solution adding flexibility to the airport and improving traffic flow.
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 11:02 am
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Originally Posted by sylvas808
http://www.mauinews.com/page/content...ks.html?nav=10 details the different options being considered.

In my personal opinion lengthening both runways would be the best solution adding flexibility to the airport and improving traffic flow.
+1^
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 2:41 am
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Good 15 minutes of video from the meeting explaining the runway issues and the options.

http://mauinow.com/2012/01/24/video-...options-aired/

the car rental center thing is a complete Hawaii DOT boondoogle in my opinion. no idea why they need it here. This is not a big city airport.

What about other alternatives, like building a new runway parallel to the existing 2/20? Wouldn't that be less disruptive than the other options, or what about night construction and replace in place?

The EIS is going to take forever, none of these options are going to happen any time soon.

link to the dot slides (pdf) on this HI DOT page: http://hawaii.gov/dot/news/kahului-a...on-available-1

-David

Last edited by LIH Prem; Jan 25, 2012 at 3:22 am
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 3:46 pm
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by LIH Prem
Good 15 minutes of video from the meeting explaining the runway issues and the options.

http://mauinow.com/2012/01/24/video-...options-aired/

the car rental center thing is a complete Hawaii DOT boondoogle in my opinion. no idea why they need it here. This is not a big city airport.

What about other alternatives, like building a new runway parallel to the existing 2/20? Wouldn't that be less disruptive than the other options, or what about night construction and replace in place?

The EIS is going to take forever, none of these options are going to happen any time soon.

link to the dot slides (pdf) on this HI DOT page: http://hawaii.gov/dot/news/kahului-a...on-available-1

-David
But you're talking common sense and politicians don't understand that

Agree about the EIS and there shouldn't even be one since it's ALREADY an airport. But the usual suspects will gum it up I'm sure. I still say extending the main runway and putting a short extension on the other is the pono way go.
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Old Feb 6, 2012, 10:32 am
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by Aloha1
But you're talking common sense and politicians don't understand that
hehehe
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 8:40 am
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by sylvas808
5/23 is just under 5000 ft long, I'm not sure on the exact specs for the 717's but I believe they could land and depart on that runway, but it would be pretty tight.
I found this:

At sea level (standard day) with maximum weight, the B717-200 needs approximately 5800' to takeoff and 4800' to land.

Looking at the specs for sea level, that quote seems about right.
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Old Feb 18, 2012, 7:54 pm
  #30  
 
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We just today booked non-stop HA-33 & HA 34 LAX to OGG & back for 1st week of July. Appears to be a 767-300 which needs about 7,900 feet to take off.
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