Guava

O.K., an update from Cape Town. There is close to zero gay scene unless you are talking about bathhouse or cruising, which I don't care for. Like others have mentioned, "Bronx" is about the only place that is still gay today but it has a bias towards being a cruising place so I skipped it. There is the Hot House bathhouse which I didn't visit. Here on a Saturday night, I decided to have a dinner at a relatively well known gay restaurant called "Beefcakes". The ground level is packed of people but way too noisy, including a lot of girls (not lesbians). So the restaurant had an underground level called "Locker Room" which is supposedly a Men Only place. It appears to be new concept but boy, it failed pretty badly. For one thing, there are very few people. For another, I was wondering could they possibly ask a female patron not to enter and of course they didn't, women marched right into a supposedly Men only area. I understand it may be tricky to keep women out but one of the server is actually woman??? Why advertise the place as being "University Jocks": http://www.beefcakes.co.za/

After that, I headed to the famous Cafe Manhattan, which a friend told me about years ago how he had a life changing conversation in there as he was a depressed I-Banker from Manhattan (hence the irony) who was suffering discrimination because he is gay at workplace in the early 2000s. The only thing gay about that place now, is that there are a few desperate looking senior men looking for something. Other than that, the bar looks just like an African straight bar, totally invaded by quite a few noisy African women or the girlfriends of some male patrons. Bartender had no skills or manners anywhere close to what you expect of a gay bar in North America or Europe and probably isn't even gay. And his friends later came sit at the bar and they just chatted away. If this were a gay bar, you couldn't possibly have recognized it other than the few elder gentlemen obviously trying to look for tricks.

After a quick drink there, I figured I can watch some drag show or comedy. No, couldn't find that place, which is supposed to be on the same street and about 400ft from Cafe Manhattan. Then passed by another "gay bar" which called itself the best kept secret of the village. Peaked inside it, seems better as it seems a little more lively but looking at the people standing at the balcony from outside, it again didn't feel gay at all. There is a point when a gay bar is almost half men and half women, then it can barely be called gay anymore.

Whatever was said in this thread back in 2008, it's seriously outdated. It has gone even worse to almost a non-existent level. Do visit Cape Town at least once for the beautiful scenery and interesting history but as far as nightlife is concerned from a gay perspective, it's not small, it's pretty non-existent.

chrisdenver1

I thought Capetown was great (but not like Europe). A few gay bars and Clubs, but most places are pretty open. Seems to be a lot of tourists, so easy to hook-up, if htat's what you're in to.

As for the sites...amazing. Close to wine country, beaches... Botanical Gardens are beautiful too.

kyushuman

Any updates on Cape Town? I will be there for a week March 11-18, and am trying to figure out how to find stuff to do. Can't tell which websites are the most updated in terms of info--it seems (on the links to gay life in CPT I've seen--and even on this thread from 3 years ago) plenty of places have closed up shop. The sauna that people mention, Hothouse, has a dead link to its website. Does that mean it's closed too?
Any recent info would be greatly appreciated! Also, what are the most popular dating sites in Z'a? Gay romeo, gaydar, etc?
Thanks

LAXGR

Yes, any updates on Capetpown? Kysushuman, how did your trip end up going in March? I'll be there September 3-7. Would love to get any advice on where to go... also looking at the Glen Hotel, if anyone has any recent experiences there. The reviews on trip advisor seem a bit mixed, but of course I love to support our gay owned hotels!

bariummeal

Here is some updated information about Cape Town and Johannesburg. I have been working and visiting the cities all year.

Johannesburg - not a pretty city, but underated - not many gay bars, but lots of gays in the 'straight' bars.

It is worth seeing Johannesburg for a weekend - but you must have a car. The northern suburbs are richer and quite white, the downtown majority black and more interesting.

Northern Suburbs
The northern 'middleclass' suburbs (Sandton and surrounds) have fancy restaurants but are dull. However, Parkhurst around 4th Avenue is 'villagy' and has a nice feel.

Melville
Melville has some good bars and restaurants and has a more studenty feel - quite a few white gay guys are around the bars.

Braamfontein
Saturday morning go to the Neighbourgoods Market at 73 Juta Street. Also there are cafes around this area which has been transformed recently. The Kitchener Bar opposite is pretty gay on a Friday night with a black & white mix of people. Narida Trogans one street away on De Korte is good, but only open on Mon-Friday.

Maboneng - downtown
On Sunday go to Arts on Main which is actually on Fox Street. This is a nice market with art etc and a mixed black & white crowd. Afterwards go to the 12 Decades Hotel (about 3pm) and go upto to the roof, where there is a bar - the Sunday party there has great music and is called the Party on the Roof. It is very gay - and what is nice is that it is a good mix of blacks and whites. Here is a videos of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndv9x...eature=related

Braamfontien and Maboneng are great places to visit to see what life is like for people in the big city - the areas are safe enough if you are careful.

Soweto - township tour

Do a bicycle tour around Orlando West - a great way to see township life as well as speak to locals. A guide brings you round - and it is great fun. Far better than being on a bus. I took my team on four of these - and used Soweto bicycle tours from the Soweto Backpackers on Pooe St.

Central Business District (which is not really the main business district anymore) is worth a drive around during the day, but not at night as dangerous.

I really enjoyed Johannesburg, and miss working there. I heard all the bad stories, and yet had no problems. As long as you are not silly, it is fine. Do not drive through Hillbrow at night, and there is no reason to be there during the day. If you want to see the Hijacked buildings, drive rom 73 Juta down to the Art Museum and park in the secure car park. From it you can observe Joubert Park and the surrounding area which is morbidly facinating (to me anyway).

Cape Town
I love going to Cape Town. The Winelands are lovely and you can find good destinations in the posts above. Go to some small winerys also.

Gay life is around De Waterkant - Somerset Road and Napier Streets. Note that the Bronx has now gone. The owner unfortunately was murdered last year. However Crew Bar behind it is good. Also the little cobbled street around have cute restaurants etc - check out Le Petite Tarte on Napier and the two decent cafes Loading Bay and Origin on Hudson Street are nice. The Sky bar on the top of theroof of Village Lodge and Madames is nice.

Long Street is tacky, but has a more mixed crowd of blacks and whites - indeed my black gay friends party on Long Street more than in De Waterkant - which is more white. I like the street for its silly feel. 93 Keerom and Carne SA are great restaurants on Keerom Street nearby. The Grand Daddy Hotel has an interesting roof bar.

On a Sunday a trip to Mzolis Buy and Braii is worth it in Gugulethu township. Go at 11am to buy meat, and then into the restaurant area to eat and dance to very loud music. Like being in a nightclub during the day - hilarious.

Also a relatively new scene is at Cold Turkey (search on Google - they have a facebook page). This is a party each Sunday, with a young crowd of all backgrounds in the Woodstock district - Railway Street. A lot of gays go to it. Great fun.

Woodstock is a little like Shoreditch in London or the Williamsburg of Brooklyn, and in a Saturday morning go to the Old Biscuit Mill Market which a high end food market and very nice. A bit like Borough Market in London. Note it is linked to the Neighbourgoods market in J'Burg but far bigger.

The gay beach is Clifton 3rd - very nice, but sea cold - which does keep the tourists down (thank god). Forget Camps Bay - boring - almost exclusively white and like Malaga/Marbella/Puerto Banus in Spain.

Be careful at night time in Capetown - you can walk around unlike the downtown of J'Burg after dark - but remember you are in Africa, so there is more crime.

Hope this is useful - wish I was at Cold Turkey right now!

LAXGR

Wow, bariummeal, thank you so much, all this information is amazing!! It's making me even more excited about my trip than I already was! One more quick question, I've been debating where to stay in Cape Town- I reserved at a traditional hotel, the DysArt, which looks very nice for the rate, but now I'm wondering if I would have a better time at a gay hotel, like the Glen Boutique. Have you stayed at either or do you have any recommendations?

kyushuman

I have some friends who stayed at the Glen Hotel and liked it. They rented a car and parking was reasonably easy around there.
I stayed in the Hilton (found US$99/night on Octopus Travel, was able to do a BRG with Hilton so got my points and Gold Upgrade to Club Lounge. But the normal prices at international hotels in CPT (e.g., US$320/night at Hilton!) are outrageous, especially considering that daily costs on food, etc are quite cheap.
Hilton was fine, a decent location but not great. If the Radisson Blu is available on Friends and Family rate (like US$80/night), that's an amazing deal-it's located on the waterfront.
I liked the gay bar area, there were a few that were more popular, I think one is called The Bronx. It's a standard drinks bar with a darkroom upstairs. Crew Bar was reasonably popular late nights, it's just behind Bronx Bar. Up the hill in der Waterkant were a few more places, one on a corner called..... I think Cafe Manhattan?
Robben Island tour was excellent; so was the Red/Blue? Line bus--you get a great introduction to CPT, it's open-air, you can really see a lot in a few days on that bus. It's hop-on/hop off, so you can take as much or as little time as you want. If it's a clear morning, get up to Table Mountain, since several of the days I was there it was shrouded in fog.
A local I met took me to a really nice local farmers market/outdoor market on a Saturday morning in beautifully restored buildings with tons of art galleries around too. If you want more info PM me and I'll ask my friend the name of it; it's about a 10-minute drive from the city centre.
Anyway I had no security problems in CPT but did have several encounters while walking that were definitely uncomfortable--late at night, "Where are you from?" and "Hey can I talk to you?" questions.... some got aggressive, but nothing happened. I'd recommend taking taxis until you know where you're going. Really gorgeous city!!

justforfun

My friends have recommended An African Villa, a gay owned boutique hotel:
http://www.capetowncity.co.za/

Right now I've got a room at the Westin, just because it's cheap and I need some spg nights, but I may look into switching.

dodgeflyer

That's the Biscuit Mill; getting a bit outdated now (touristy) - there are new and better markets which have opened up although The Test Kitchen which is there is a great restaurant.

LAXGR

Been hearing and reading great things about The Test Kitchen- it's definitely on my list of restaurants to try while I'm there!

dodgeflyer

You have to book in advance. And in more general about CT: I think it has evolved so much that many of the gay clubs have closed down. My gay friends there don't seem to go to many gay places but mixed places instead.

ijgordon

I stayed there about 7 years ago. You definitely need a car (probably anywhere you stay in CPT), and they have a guarded/gated lot for guests. It was a nice hotel and we enjoyed our stay, but note that all the rooms are different so know what you're getting.

EWRTravelers

Any recent updates on CPT?


We are flying into Cape Town next weekend and plan on staying at the Glen Hotel. We have rented a car and already secured a Dinner reservation at Test Kitchen.

Dieuwer

What you describe reminds me of San Francisco: nearby winelands, a gay beach, mountains to climb and sea animals lounging. Of course, from the US San Francisco is much easier and cheaper to get to

pianoamit

OK - here are a few tips about visiting South Africa. JNB is DEFINITELY worth visiting, but I would certainly advise you to rent a car. Driving on the wrong side of the road can be daunting, but the signage is very good. So long as you have your wits about you, you will be fine. If you feel uncomfortable in a certain area, turn around and drive away. Don't keep your belongings in the boot, nor on the passenger seat: smash-and-grabs are no longer rife in most areas, but it's better to be safe than sorry. Putting things on the floor by the backseat is the best idea.

The gay scene in JNB is very spread out, but I wouldn't say it's anything spectacular. JNB has a lot of other interesting things to see and experience, including Soweto (only visit the touristy part, the rest can be a bit dangerous), the Apartheid Museum and Gold Reef City, as well as Constitution Hill in the downtown area. The downtown area is slowly being regenerated (partly thanks to the new Gautrain station in Park Station) and if you park your car in a parking lot, it is interesting to walk around a bit.

If you have time to visit Pretoria, I cannot recommend it highly enough. The Union Buildings gardens are really spectacular, and a little walk around Church Square (formerly Kerkplein, now given a not-so-memorable 'other' name) and have a coffee in one of the little coffeeshops. Arriving here by the Gautrain is the quickest and easiest (provided you don't mind walking a little bit), but driving from Johannesburg is not too difficult (about 100km, and takes maybe an hour). If you drive, think about visiting the Voortrekkermonument - it's a monument to the Great Trek of the Afrikaners from the Cape up to the high plateau where Johannesburg is. It's an incredible building, and has a small exhibition that tells the story of the Great Trek in very neutral terms. This is a very important chapter in the formation of South Africa, and will really help you understand the situation better.

In CPT the situation is very different. Unlike the ANC-governed province of Gauteng, the Western Cape is ruled by the Democratic Alliance. Because it is home to many 'Coloureds' (the South Africans find the term 'mixed-race' offensive, and prefer to be referred to as 'Coloured' - note that Coloureds are different to Black people, and each groups resents being confused with the other) the Black-led ANC has never managed to win a local election here. The result is that the province is governed by a mixture of Black, White and Coloured people whose party has historically been far less corrupt than the ANC. In CPT, unlike in JNB, the city functions a lot more like a European city; there are buses and taxis, it is safe to walk around the streets, and the locals tend to be a lot more approachable. CPT is very touristy, but it has a 24/7 holiday feel to it - I really love it.

In CPT, if you have a car, drive up to Stellenbosch, Franschoek and the winelands (or Hermanus for whale watching around February). Definitely take a tour to Cape Point, and a visit to the top of Table Mountain is a must (if the weather permits - strong winds very often shut down Table Mountain's cablecar and the visitor centre at the top). The nightlife in CPT is a lot easier to enjoy. I would recommend De Waterkant as a wonderful area to visit bars and clubs. As you head 'inland' from the main road (up the hill) you'll see many of the bars in the little Cape-Dutch houses of the neighbourhood.

I think I've ranted on for long enough, but if you have ANY other questions, please don't hesitate to PM me and I'll be happy to help.

in the interest of fair disclosure, I am not South African, but my OH is, and we go there regularly, so I know both cities fairly well...