HomerJay

The Gideons began their work more than a century ago - prior to the invention of television, and even before radio. Daily prayer and bible reading were common at home, and having a Bible in your hotel room meant you wouldn't have to bring yours from home. And it's not like you could watch TV or listen to the radio or enjoy in-room porn back in 1899, when they placed their first Bible in a hotel room.

I've seen my share of Gideon Bibles in hotel rooms, and, even with the technological advancements referenced above, I've never seen one that hadn't been opened, FWIW.

jamesteroh

I know the Gideons used to place bibles in rooms and I remember when they passed out those little new testaments when I was in fourth or fifth grade (I'm sure that doesn't happen any more).

I'm just surprised they still do it. It made sense back when the practice first started but doesn't seem like it makes much sense now.

JVPhoto

I literally had no idea there was an issue until this thread. I stay at lots of Marriott Group properties and actual Marriott's maybe 4-5x a year. In face the one in Napa asked my friend and I if we would rather have a room with one bed. We said we did not. In fact I was more insulted that the agent thought my friend was actually my type!

carlosdca

I will never cease of being amazed of how different we all are.

In my narrow minded view, why would I care about a book in a drawer of a hotel? And furthermore, why would I be offended by same stupid book being in a drawer of the hotel. Or if such book makes me gasp, why would I go on a treasure hunt at every hotel I stay and VERIFY if the book is there or not and THEN take offense if I find such book.
Makes no sense to me.

I have never noticed the book (not consciously at least), I don't care about the book and I don't think that the book being there or not reflects in anyway how the hotel treats LGBT guests.

I would actually be happy if all there was was a book in a drawer. I find it more annoying when the hotel leaves marketing material of all sorts (spa/restaurant, internet, movies, etc) ALL over the place (even on your pillow). Some hotels are really bad at that. I always throw out all that crap to avoid clutter. Sometimes house keeping diligently sets it out all over again next day

SkiAdcock

I've been told that the Marriott links I posted in post #3 are no longer working. They did work when I posted them, but evidently: "You may have received this message because the item you’re looking for has moved to our redesigned Marriott News Center", screwed up the links. So looks like Marriott's IT team has struck again (rather like IB's IT team on enhancements ).

When I posted the links I also posted a bit of verbiage from each link, so you all got the gist of what was in the links. Presumably that gives you info. It literally took me a while when I did all the links, info & urls, in post #3, so it may take me a while to find/post everything again. But I think you all got the gist of it.

And besides the info I provided, basically the majority of you have said you've stayed & not had a problem, or wouldn't have a problem staying, so not totally sure how much extra is needed at this point.

Cheers.

bigguyinpasadena

I am a former loyal customer of Marriott's I am no longer a loyal customer because of a few reasons-the Mormon Support of the Yes on 8 campaign and the financial support provided to the LDS's by the Marriott family via tithing being one of many. I also felt that Marriott Rewards had gone from the best hotel loyalty program out there to the worst of the majors- but that is OT

When I posted this on the Marriott Forum I was accused of having an "agenda"
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17350850-post24.html

But now I have a to make another decision, frankly one I really don't want to make but because of the merger I now have to decide whether to axe my relations with Marriott/SPG again.

What changed is for sure the merger. The Marriott people (who I met some a long time ago) are good people and I believed them about their commitment to GLBT community. But for sure the merger changes everything as the progressive bend that SPG/Starwood has could go away.

And the more I think about it, the BOM in the rooms really does bother me. It should be removed if Marriott is NOT looking to upset me (and others who feel the same way) I would love to see the Bible be removed as well.

But I'll argue about the sameness between Starwood and Marriott. Starwood has a person on staff who is a music director, his job is to select music and DJ's for the various brands (mostly W, LeM, Westin) - Marriott has nothing like that. LeM partnered with Le Labo to create a custom scent, a detail I really doubt Marriott would touch. W Hotels have done so much for the design community and that has ripple effects all over creative areas. Starwood spent money like that knowing it was good for the community but also good for their brand image, really doubt Marriot will continue with this sort of thing. Now all of the above paragraph is OT for this post-but these are issues I and others are concerned about.

Adam1222

I think you are identifying specific brand differences between certain SPG brands and Marriott though. I've had a lot of phenomenal Renaissance and Courtyard stays at more stylish and interesting properties than Westins and Ws. (Recent stay at the W Chicago Lake Shore was horrendous, the Courtyard in Portland OR is phenomenal.) Perhaps Starwood has more luxury properties. I think both chains have great properties and cruddy ones, though, and the average Sheraton isn't particularly different than the average Marriott. Both also have way too many brands to be able to do meaningful comparisons at the higher family level. But also realize Marriott has a much broader footprint which makes the combined program more useful in many ways, particularly for those of us who stay outside of the large tourist meccas. (Having an in-house music director seems like the ultimate useless perk. Ritz Carlton has a signature scent similar to LM.)

SkiAdcock

Only you can decide which hotel chain is best for you & make the decision for your own reasons.

I think that there's a conflagration by some (including you) re: the Mormon church & the Marriott corporation. As noted earlier, neither Bill Marriott personally nor the Marriott corporation as an entity contributed to Prop 8, even though the Mormon church did. Marriott corporation sells liquor in its hotel properties, even though the Mormon church prohibits alcohol and Bill Marriott doesn't drink.

And, as Adam1222 said (his comments in italics right after this as I don't know how to do the quotes w/in quotes thing),

"So is the concern that a small portion of profits will go to private individuals who then in their personal capacity will make donations to their religious institutions? Considering how many people on here see no problem flying Emirates this strikes me as insanely hypocritical. Are we now saying that you are concerned about any business with Mormon shareholders?

How a corporation treats its employees is far more telling than what church some of its shareholders belong to. Marriott passes that test. It sponsors many many LGBt causes and events. (more than Starwood). It publicly supports ENDA. There is no record of a pattern of discrimination towards guests. Basically, the only thing identified is that you disagree with the positions of the church that some of its shareholders belong to. That strikes me as an illogical reason to be "concerned" that any aspect of Starwood properties is suddenly going to be less gay friendly. (In mathematical terms, the percent of a dollar spent that goes to the Mormon Church is tiny...."

I don't understand deciding to switch chains (MAR/SPG) on a 'guess' that the two chains combined will be less progressive towards gays moving forward. I truly don't see that happening.

And you're going to have a lot of homework ahead of you if you want to find a chain that doesn't put bibles in the rooms. Granted Marriott is the only one that has BOM, but multiple hotel chains have had & continue to have bibles in their rooms. Gideon still spends $100 million/year putting bibles in hotels, prisons & hospitals worldwide.

Bibles in hotel rooms may lessen in the future, but it won't be just due to gays. More to do w/ younger people being more secular, some people carrying a digital version, and hotels not wanting to offend gays, but also not wanting to offend atheists and those from other faiths such as Muslims and Buddhists.

Hilton's founder (Conrad Hilton) was very involved w/ the Catholic church & created a foundation that to this day supports Catholic schools and Catholic nuns (amongst other charities such as working w/ children affected by HIV & AIDS). It's not like the Catholic church is a big supporter of gay rights. Will you drop Hilton from your list too?

Marriott has said the various brands on both sides will continue, so what makes those brands unique will probably stay. Whether all 30 brands remain a few years from now is up in the air, as there is a bit of overlap. But I doubt W & LeM are suddenly going to turn into cookie cutter brands.

FWIW - getting off LGBT & onto generic, my guess is both the Marriott elites & the SPG elites are going to lose out a bit come 2018. There are some nice things Marriott offers just as there are nice things SPG offers. And we know from airline mergers that the best of both are not always kept. Sigh.

Cheers.

bigguyinpasadena

Actually Hilton's ties with the Catholic church are deeper than that. I don't stay at Hilton properties for this reason.

SkiAdcock

Hilton Foundation or Hilton Corporation/The Blackstone Group has really close Catholic ties? Again, there's a difference between the two.

Only you can decide which hotel chain is best for you & make the decision for your own reasons.

But it does sound like you're going to run out of hotel chains (at least if you think of the main ones) if you try to tie your stays/non stays into the religious beliefs of founders & CEOs when they themselves put a line between their religious beliefs & their business practices.

I can only speak for myself, but how a property (or chain) treats me personally is more important than what management does/believes in their personal lives.

I was going to fix the links above that quit working when I copied them over, but today's my birthday, for one week starting today the weather in the Midwest is turning warm & the sun is shining, so I'm doing to check a few threads/forums on FT & then just enjoy the day. I'll fix the links later in the weekend.

Cheers.

SeamusSA

Important to make the distinction between marketing (attempt to attract as customers any group with disposable income) and management philosophy/policy.

Years back I did HIV case management and had patients from both Marriott and SPG. SPG was horrid, did everything they could to force HIV+ employees to quit in ways that stopped just short of documentable discrimination, balked at paying for necessary medications, etc.

Marriott, on the other hand and much to my surprise, was incredibly supportive. To this day I avoid SPG if at all possible. In the last couple years we've begun staying at Marriotts and have been very well treated at every single property.

GRUflyer

Well,


I just had the most UNBELIEVABLE homophobic encounter with the staff of W Bogotá.

I have contacted Corporate about it and I am due to leave SPG-Marriott for good after that, so I am not sure what the implications of the Takeover are.


SPG has been far from perfect anyway. I shall not give my business to corporations who just want my money. And Starwood at its Corporate level has to show me they do take those issues seriously so I can let this go as a "one off".

Do I think they will do it? Not really.


In the mean time I have cancelled 25 nights that were already booked.

david55

It would be helpful to share a few more details about your incident. Anything serious enough to cancel " 25 nights" should be illuminated.

carlosdca

Please elaborate

Adam1222

​​​​​​
whatever happened, I imagine it didn't have anything to do with the merger.