The 10 Places LGBT Travelers Should Never Visit (Out Traveler)
Nov 19, 2016, 3:47 pm
#46
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Others were extremely disenchanted with 8 years of Obama.
Those 60 million that voted for Trump are not necessarily homophobic, etc.
For some it was a very tough choice to vote for Trump.
Also, a lot of young voters skipped the election.
To say that all 60 million of Trump voters are bigots, etc (or that they condone Trump or Pence's views) is a generalization that fails to consider the complexity of the issue of the Trump vote.
Nov 19, 2016, 4:12 pm
#47
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Like everything else, it's complicated. When I was younger, I had to hit all the bars, clubs, etc. Now that I am older, I enjoy the places with an active gay social scene, and really don't mind the quieter places. My concerns for personal safety have more to do with crime and unrest than being bashed.
But what I struggle with is visiting (and supporting with my dollars) countries that outlaw my very existence. I have not visited the middle east, and would love to go, but not sure about it. On the other hand, I disagree with the policies of Singapore, but would not hesitate to return.
I grew up a gay minority in the south in the 60's/70s and I know when and where I am unwelcome. I have never experienced anything traveling abroad that even comes close to the crap I grew up with. But I don't want to support homophobic regimes either. So, its a case by case decision with me.
But what I struggle with is visiting (and supporting with my dollars) countries that outlaw my very existence. I have not visited the middle east, and would love to go, but not sure about it. On the other hand, I disagree with the policies of Singapore, but would not hesitate to return.
I grew up a gay minority in the south in the 60's/70s and I know when and where I am unwelcome. I have never experienced anything traveling abroad that even comes close to the crap I grew up with. But I don't want to support homophobic regimes either. So, its a case by case decision with me.
Nov 20, 2016, 1:09 am
#48
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Just a brief reminder, discussing some of this stuff is rather pointless as it is truly an individual comfort thing...and the reason one may or may not financially support an economy is more complicated than simply being "gay friendly" or not...but here goes my two cents.
I personally have been to Bali and never had a problem. We were there for a week, the locals always asked if my husband and I were together, and seemed very supportive when we answered yes. I agree with other posters, the island of Bali is not really anything like the rest of Indonesia culturally...
I've also been to Jamaica 3-4 times. I did not, the entire time I was there, see another same sex couple in any way displaying even an ounce of affection in public. It is my understanding, through my time there, that the extreme anti-sodomy laws are never enforced. We personally didn't feel comfortable enough to out ourselves to many, but again, that's an individual choice. Hope that helps.
I personally have been to Bali and never had a problem. We were there for a week, the locals always asked if my husband and I were together, and seemed very supportive when we answered yes. I agree with other posters, the island of Bali is not really anything like the rest of Indonesia culturally...
I've also been to Jamaica 3-4 times. I did not, the entire time I was there, see another same sex couple in any way displaying even an ounce of affection in public. It is my understanding, through my time there, that the extreme anti-sodomy laws are never enforced. We personally didn't feel comfortable enough to out ourselves to many, but again, that's an individual choice. Hope that helps.
Nov 20, 2016, 7:15 am
#49
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Yes I am aware that the USA has a population much bigger than Australia.
So 60 million voted for Hillary - that also means that 60 Million or so voted for Trump.
So 60 million people who were prepared to be counted as racist, homophobic and xenophobic at best. Hell they even are unwelcoming of the African American, and Native Indian populations that make up the USA.
My issue is that I am not prepared to go spend my precious vacation time and precious vacation money to allow people to validate these views.
I have many wonderful Americans as friends = and know that these attitudes are not 100% across the population.
But actions have consequences
So 60 million voted for Hillary - that also means that 60 Million or so voted for Trump.
So 60 million people who were prepared to be counted as racist, homophobic and xenophobic at best. Hell they even are unwelcoming of the African American, and Native Indian populations that make up the USA.
My issue is that I am not prepared to go spend my precious vacation time and precious vacation money to allow people to validate these views.
I have many wonderful Americans as friends = and know that these attitudes are not 100% across the population.
But actions have consequences
Last edited by hsmall; Nov 20, 2016 at 4:54 pm
Nov 20, 2016, 2:52 pm
#50
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Met several sexy guys for drinks, who all wanted to do more, but I kept my distance as before leaving I had decided this was to be a cultural vacation and not a slut-pig fest.
Nov 21, 2016, 6:23 am
#51
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I had a reasonable good time in Bali. The people were super friendly and not pushy at all, the culture was awesome and the food great. Only minor thing was the oppressive humidity and Seminyak traffic.
Met several sexy guys for drinks, who all wanted to do more, but I kept my distance as before leaving I had decided this was to be a cultural vacation and not a slut-pig fest.
Met several sexy guys for drinks, who all wanted to do more, but I kept my distance as before leaving I had decided this was to be a cultural vacation and not a slut-pig fest.
Surely a little 'holiday romance' would have been acceptable and not diminish your cultural vacation?
Nov 21, 2016, 9:36 am
#52
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I'm in Marrakech now, and here the people are less courteous than Balinese. Mostly harassment by kids on scooters with "hi my friend, you want xyz?".
Great city for cultural stuff, but not much for LGBT.
Great city for cultural stuff, but not much for LGBT.
Last edited by Dieuwer; Nov 25, 2016 at 2:32 pm
Nov 23, 2016, 7:23 am
#53
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OutTraveler routinely publishes idiotic lists. This is no different. Granted there are some places on the list that are not safe, but there are plenty of other countries that are more dangerous than Lithuania and Zimbabwe.
As someone who worked and lived in Zimbabwe, Senegal, and Uganda I will say Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Saudi Arabia are way more dangerous than the African countries. Uganda and Nigeria may have the most homophobic laws on paper, but not many people bother you if you are foreigner. The laws almost exclusively apply to natives and not tourists...unless you are blatantly flamboyant, in drag, or showing PDA.
Another boring 'article" from OutTraveler.
As someone who worked and lived in Zimbabwe, Senegal, and Uganda I will say Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Saudi Arabia are way more dangerous than the African countries. Uganda and Nigeria may have the most homophobic laws on paper, but not many people bother you if you are foreigner. The laws almost exclusively apply to natives and not tourists...unless you are blatantly flamboyant, in drag, or showing PDA.
Another boring 'article" from OutTraveler.
There's even a gay tour of Iran, 2017 will be their third trip: http://www.happygaytravel.com/tours/..._Gay_Tour.html
Last edited by jchock1; Nov 23, 2016 at 4:03 pm
Nov 25, 2016, 2:21 pm
#55
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I get your point about the Australian Govt. and its attitude to gay marriage.
With a very small majority, the pro gay marriage Prime Minister has had to bow down to party room pressure not to proceed.
The ruling coalition is made up of Liberals and LNP (liberal National Party - which grew up from the Country Party).
The LNP are very conservative country folk many who farm the land.
There is also a collection of very right conservatives who come from strong Christian right communities.
These people have managed to force the Liberals to support a Plebescite - a public vote like a referendum (but in the Australian constitution a referendum can only be about the consistitition, so social policy can be voted by a Plebescite which is not binding on the policitians when it comes to a vote).
So polls show that 70% of the population support Marriage Equality, but if we had the plebesicte - at a public cost of $200 million we still would not have a binding vote in the parliament. Many saw this as a waste of money, let alone stirring up anti gay sentiment in the lead up.
So really the Parliament should just vote on the issue and the parties allow a free vote rather than a vote along party lines.
Australia is a country where gay people are welcome to be who they are, its just the legal issues trying to get Marriage Equality thru the Parliament. Gay people have equality in all issues except Marriage.
Many of us (including myself) are working very hard to get this process done.
With a very small majority, the pro gay marriage Prime Minister has had to bow down to party room pressure not to proceed.
The ruling coalition is made up of Liberals and LNP (liberal National Party - which grew up from the Country Party).
The LNP are very conservative country folk many who farm the land.
There is also a collection of very right conservatives who come from strong Christian right communities.
These people have managed to force the Liberals to support a Plebescite - a public vote like a referendum (but in the Australian constitution a referendum can only be about the consistitition, so social policy can be voted by a Plebescite which is not binding on the policitians when it comes to a vote).
So polls show that 70% of the population support Marriage Equality, but if we had the plebesicte - at a public cost of $200 million we still would not have a binding vote in the parliament. Many saw this as a waste of money, let alone stirring up anti gay sentiment in the lead up.
So really the Parliament should just vote on the issue and the parties allow a free vote rather than a vote along party lines.
Australia is a country where gay people are welcome to be who they are, its just the legal issues trying to get Marriage Equality thru the Parliament. Gay people have equality in all issues except Marriage.
Many of us (including myself) are working very hard to get this process done.
Nov 29, 2016, 12:22 am
#56
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I'm not protesting.
The question was asked, I replied.
Actually it makes me very sad that bigotry and discrimination is so rooted in certain parts of our country.
And at the same time, it makes me feel stupid and hypocritical that we are clutching pearls at places like Nigeria and Jamaica here and we can't look at ourselves.
There are pleeeeenty of places to visit in the United States where I will feel welcomed.
For starters, I have yet to visit all corners of our beautiful California, Oregon and Washington. I have never been to New England.
So there are lots of nice places I have yet to visit and I don't have time to visit those states. Much less if they are not welcoming of me and my husband.
And the southern hospitality at a professional/work setting does not exist. I was at a company party in Atlanta and the only ones interested in talking to us (from that office) were the wives! It was so awkward. I really don't want to go the parties if they are somewhere there. IT is not about protesting. We really felt uncomfortable.
Here in CA, me and my husband attend all work events and they are a blast. Nobody cares or seem to notice that we are a male/male marriage.
Anyway, bye!
The question was asked, I replied.
Actually it makes me very sad that bigotry and discrimination is so rooted in certain parts of our country.
And at the same time, it makes me feel stupid and hypocritical that we are clutching pearls at places like Nigeria and Jamaica here and we can't look at ourselves.
There are pleeeeenty of places to visit in the United States where I will feel welcomed.
For starters, I have yet to visit all corners of our beautiful California, Oregon and Washington. I have never been to New England.
So there are lots of nice places I have yet to visit and I don't have time to visit those states. Much less if they are not welcoming of me and my husband.
And the southern hospitality at a professional/work setting does not exist. I was at a company party in Atlanta and the only ones interested in talking to us (from that office) were the wives! It was so awkward. I really don't want to go the parties if they are somewhere there. IT is not about protesting. We really felt uncomfortable.
Here in CA, me and my husband attend all work events and they are a blast. Nobody cares or seem to notice that we are a male/male marriage.
Anyway, bye!
Nov 29, 2016, 12:24 am
#57
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But there are gay people who are always looking for that hook up, but I'm with you when Hubby and I are traveling, we aren't looking for a third. I feel at times gay people place themselves in harms way.
Apr 23, 2017, 1:24 am
#58
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As an Irish/British man living in Moscow with a Russian husband, I can safely say I've NEVER had a problem in Russia at all. In fact, when me and my colleague met another colleague's parents for dinner with my husband and his housemate, the parents thought my colleague and his housemate were the married gay couple, and me and my husband were just friends. Go figure eh.
But seriously, anywhere can be safe for any LGBT traveller as long as they stick to the culture of the country. Let's face it, not everywhere is going to accept the same things as you!
But seriously, anywhere can be safe for any LGBT traveller as long as they stick to the culture of the country. Let's face it, not everywhere is going to accept the same things as you!
Apr 23, 2017, 5:38 am
#59
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As an Irish/British man living in Moscow with a Russian husband, I can safely say I've NEVER had a problem in Russia at all. In fact, when me and my colleague met another colleague's parents for dinner with my husband and his housemate, the parents thought my colleague and his housemate were the married gay couple, and me and my husband were just friends. Go figure eh.
But seriously, anywhere can be safe for any LGBT traveller as long as they stick to the culture of the country. Let's face it, not everywhere is going to accept the same things as you!
But seriously, anywhere can be safe for any LGBT traveller as long as they stick to the culture of the country. Let's face it, not everywhere is going to accept the same things as you!
I'm not sure what "stick to the culture of the country" means, but there are plenty of places on earth where simply being perceived as effeminate or having the same last name/wedding ring of a same sex partner can cause trouble. It's a fair consideration for LGBT people not to want to travel to places where they have to be concerned about whether being themselves can bring them danger.
And again, the tonedeafness of your posts about dinner in Russia given what's going on in Chechnya is appalling.
Apr 23, 2017, 6:14 am
#60
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yes, you posted the same thing in the thread dedicated specifically to the topic of Russia last week. Not sure why you are resuscitating this old thread to further propagandize.
I'm not sure what "stick to the culture of the country" means, but there are plenty of places on earth where simply being perceived as effeminate or having the same last name/wedding ring of a same sex partner can cause trouble. It's a fair consideration for LGBT people not to want to travel to places where they have to be concerned about whether being themselves can bring them danger.
And again, the tonedeafness of your posts about dinner in Russia given what's going on in Chechnya is appalling.
I'm not sure what "stick to the culture of the country" means, but there are plenty of places on earth where simply being perceived as effeminate or having the same last name/wedding ring of a same sex partner can cause trouble. It's a fair consideration for LGBT people not to want to travel to places where they have to be concerned about whether being themselves can bring them danger.
And again, the tonedeafness of your posts about dinner in Russia given what's going on in Chechnya is appalling.
Frankly, sexuality shouldn't wholly determine a person, and one should adapt to their surroundings. Just like an American would expect someone else to adapt to their way of life. Yes, sexuality isn't exactly something that can be altered, but then nor are other things like religion or political beliefs.
Last names can be mere coincidences, wedding rings can be removed or changed position very easily. Just saying...
Besides, there's also some hypocrisy in the LGBT community - I know quite a few gay men who would love to go to Dubai etc, you know, a country that has pretty severe penalties for homosexuality, or will gladly go to the likes of Singapore, yet they boycott other places despite having pretty much the same beliefs? Yeah, that makes PERFECT sense...
EDIT: Also, the original article was a pile of rubbish anyway. Several of the places are leaps and bounds better than other places in the world.