sj-flyer

Has anyone visited Moscow, Russia recently and have any advice about places to stay and guides?

I am looking into several possible trips for August and the AA bonus miles for their new ORD-DME flight have me interested.

Any advice is welcome.

Thanks.

jasondc

Dont go there.

First of all, you'll have to navigate a VERY difficult and time-consuming and expensive visa process. It's hard to get visas to enter the country.

Second - they really dont like foreigners. If you're Asian or black, you WILL get beaten up. A good friend of mine - Japanese - has been to Moscow for work a number of times and tries to maintain a very low profile, as he has been randomly beaten up on the street multiple times.

Third - it's VERY expensive - the cheapest hotels will probably run in the neighborhood of $600 a night.

Fouth - since you're posting in the glbt forum, you should know that they HATE gay people there. The mayor of Moscow has very publicly stated that gays are "satanic" and encourages people to discriminate and act violently toward gays. At a gay rights rally a year or two ago the police stood by and watched as anti-gay protesters beat up gay marchers.

Overall, it's NOT a good place to go. Very unfriendly and the people are suspicious of outsiders. I'd recommend going somewhere more affordable and welcoming.

WillFlyer

I vacationed in Moscow in March 2007 and had a very good time. I stayed at the Novotel which was comfortable, connected to the Metro, and only about $250 a night. I visited a gay club near the hotel without any problems.

I stayed for three days and regretted not staying longer. UA is also starting service to DME this winter and I want to go back once that service starts.

Getting my visa was no problem. I got my invitation on line from Way To Russia and the visa itself was turned around quickly and smoothly by the Russian consulate in SF.

Let us know where you decide to go and feel free to PM me for more details.

RussianGuy

what exactly you wanna know? ) will be happy to help ) everything is depend on the lenghth of the stay and your budget ) moscow is VERY expensive for foreigners and cheap for locals )

for example, my own rate for any Marriot hotel in Russia is 100 USD per night incl taxes ) but I omly can use it for myself/booking under my name/be at the checkin ;-)

dcmike

RussianGuy, would you recommend any particular clubs/restaurants/hotels? I'll be coming back to Moscow from Yerevan soon and was just curious. Thanks!

greggoak2

Everything Jason said is sort of true, but...... as with all things, the details are more complicated. Yes, the visa system is complicated and not remotely user friendly. But use the GoToRussia visa service (one of several that you can find online - http://www.gotorussia.com/index.htm) and they will handle everything. I've used them several times now and it's been smooth (not cheap, but smooth).

On the second point, yes, Russian society is in general quite xenophobic, but within a clear hierarchy with people of color at the bottom. Even then, I would not say you WILL be attacked or harassed if you're black or Asian or Latino, but you should certainly be very cautious.

Third, the center-city hotels are indeed quite expensive. But there are some cheaper options (although still not at all cheap - but certainly not $600), and apartment rentals are always possible for much less. See my posts here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showp...30&postcount=7
and here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showp...9&postcount=11

Finally, and this is where it becomes most complicated, Russian society is deeply homophobic, but there is also a relatively vibrant gay life in Moscow. Again, see my previous post:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showp...90&postcount=9

I'd be happy to answer specific questions in a personal message. But as you can probably tell, I visit Moscow often and I simply love it. But it is indeed expensive and complicated. But so are so many other parts of the world. London hotels are just as expensive, Jamaica and other Caribbean destinations are just as homophobic and just try to get a tourist visa to the U.S. if you come from anywhere other than Western Europe. But people still travel to all those places and have a great time.

kevinsac

While there are problems anywhere in the world you might travel, it seems that Jason's comment are a bit harsh.

jasondc

I've traveled all over the world, been to over 100 countries, lived for extended periods in many of them, and have never met a more hostile environment for a foreigner, let alone a gay male who does not speak the language.

greggoak2

Jason, I have no doubt that you had a pretty bad experience in Moscow, and as I said, it is a challenging - but amazing - place to visit. I come at it with a different perspective, in part because I have a bit more "insider" access, having lived there and still having quite a few friends there. My Russian is mediocre, but my husband speaks fluent Russian without almost no accent, so he really is usually treated as an insider. Most people assume he's Russian. Were I visiting Moscow alone, for the first time, with no Russian, I would probably have a very different impression of the place.

But, despite the difficulties, I still think it's totally worth it. I would just caution people to be very aware of the context of Russian culture and to act accordingly. It sounds horrible to say this, but if you are a white, relatively "straight" acting male who is experienced enough as a traveler to know how not to look like an obvious tourist, then you can have a great time (especially if you've got a bit of money to spend). If you're not white, or more "obviously" gay or don't know how to blend in, then yes, you MIGHT run into some trouble, especially if you don't take some simple precautions. Again, I know that sounds terrible, but it's the reality.

An example: The Russian police are notoriously corrupt, even in Moscow. They can and will stop people for no apparent reason just to harass them or shake them down for a bribe. For that reason, when I'm with English-speaking friends on the street in Moscow, I ask that they stop talking whenever we pass by a police officer, so they don't hear us speaking and realize we're foreigners. As a gay man, I would NEVER hold hands with my husband in public, except perhaps in the middle of tourist central (Tverskaya Ulitsa and some immediate nearby areas). You never know who is paying attention and I don't want to draw that kind of attention to myself.

All that being said, the food, the culture, the architecture, and experiencing Russian culture far outweighs any concerns. Moscow is simply a stunning city and there is SO much to see and do. But I'm a white male with some insider access, so I recognize that I speak from a position of privilege vis-a-vis the xenophobia of Russian culture that others may not have.

If you don't speak Russian and have no local contacts, hire a guide for at least part of the trip, if you can afford it. There are gay guides you can find online. The insider knowledge will absolutely change your trip. I've had many American and European friends (gay and straight) visit me in Moscow and they always have an amazing time. For a couple of them, it was among their most memorable trips ever. A couple of gay friends who I encouraged to go who did NOT go when I was there and who did NOT speak Russian or hire a guide did not.

Cedar Jet

I'm going for 3 days in August too...and am very excited. My hotel sponsored my visa for free, Le Royal Meridien (better known as National hotel) I stayed there as its the most central hotel, walkable to all tourist sites - less use of taxis, and relaitively cheap. Ask your hotel to sponsor your visa....otherwise you will have to pay via the websites mentioned. I also booked a car from airport to hotel so as not to deal with taxis. I'm a little nervous but I was this nervous before my first ever trip to Saudi Arabia and realised it was pretty unfounded. Hope that's the case for Moscow too.

I got my visa no probelms....took 2 weeks. If you are there over 15-18 August let me know. Anyone else gonna be in town over that time-would be great to meet some FT'ers there. My only real concern is flying out of SVO - I heard that can be a nightmare. I fly into DME.

CJ

sj-flyer

Thank you for your advice. I am still deciding where to go for my time off in August (I know I need to decide soon, but I am used to last-minute trips), but Moscow is very high on my list. If I go iw will be at least for three days, but hopefully five if I can work out the arrangements.

When I decide where I am going, and if it is Moscow I will PM for more advice.

Thanks!

saint82

The last time I was in Moscow, I followed a policeman across the street right next to Red Square and ended up with 12 guns pointed at my head from policemen of every stripe immagineable. I had no idea that you were not supposed to cross the street but go under the street through an underground passage. I was completely terrified with guns pointed for over 25minutes.

I also had people who sit at desks and do nothing but write down when you go down the hotel hall and enter it into a book.

Also, if you live there, you can get a good meal at a very decent price. If you are a foreigner, they will gouge the hell out of you.

We saw a young Russian cross some grass rather than go around some barriers during a festival. About 10 cops beat him within an inch of his life. You could hear his bones crack.

Other than that, Red Square and the Kremlin were great. St. Petersburg was better. The Hermitage is tremendous.

If you must go to Russia, do not go under any circumstances unless you are part of a tour group who will guide you every step of the way. Russia is not set up for individual tourists. You will be a target from the minute you get off the plane.

I did it, and lived to tell about it. I would never under any circumstances do it again.

RussianGuy

eveyrthing depends on how old are you )))))))))))))))) older you get - more troubles you see ))) i have so many young friends travelling to Moscow from all over the world, not spaking enlish and yet somehow find all gay locations and have a great fun ))) think about it ) and just FYI, I'm 30 )

saint82

And I certainly hope that you know about the underground passageways that no foreigner in his right mind would have any clue about. Unless you think that the gun thing was a treat.

When there are so many safe wonderful fun places in the world, why or why would you ever go to some place where you are constantly watched and you have to watch everyone else?

RussianGuy

it's not allowed to walk around some parts of Red Square while goverment movement or something is going on or going to happened and you might just got yourself in the wrong moment in the wrong place ) that's it ) it's just I personally hasn't been to Red Square for more then a two years (walking on it I mean) even my apartment is near by )

and sow old are you by the way? )