qpr

The "Personalausweisgesetz (PAuswG)" is no myth.

qpr

You are right.

§ 1 Personalausweisgesetz (PAuswG) says you must own an ID Card at the age of 16 or an passport.

All other documents are not valid to identify you.

I know a driver license will be accept from time to time but official it´s not legal.

Alex71

Guys, I'm not saying that Germans don't have to have an ID card, of course we have to, but it is simply not true that we will be immediately fined 5000 EUR as soon as expires before we renew it.

I had situations before I used to travel a lot outside the Schengen zone that both my passport and ID card were expired and I never had to pay a fine, in fact, I don't know of anyone who had to pay a fine for an expired ID card. There might be the theoretical possibility, but these fines are simply not enforced.

My father recently travelled to Turkey on a German ID card that was five years expired. The airline apparently didn't notice, neither did passport control when he exited Germany. Turkish immigration told him it was expired and needed to be renewed, but let him in anyway and on the way back again noone noticed.

The only non travel related situations in the last 28 years (it's that many years since I turned 16) in which I was required to show my passport or national ID card was to open bank or brokerage accounts. That's not to say that one doesn't need one for buying property or other transactions of that scale, but for every day transactions, it's not required.

WorldLux

Nobody claimed that. The municipality has the possibility to do so. Only few fine their residents (again: A city council would commit political suicide in enforcing a 5,000€ fine for expired, but mandatory paperwork) and those that do, don't fine the maximum of 5,000€. Some fine 200 to 400€. Apparently DUS is fining a dozen of people per year.

What would be an every day transaction, where you'd need to show some form of identification, but not necessarily an ID/passport? Buying tickets (student, senior tickets; etc...) and booze!?

Alex71

Buying cars, registering cars, picking up packages, getting pulled over by police, renting apartments/houses/cars, picking up tickets bought online, registering kids at new schools, voting in federal / state / local elections (invitation letter sufficient), showing an ID for train tickets bought online, etc.

qpr

Of course nobody get fined 5000€ for an expired ID card.
But there are german cities who do this in a range of 5 - 20€.

GUWonder

What happens to the mentally-challenged, elderly equivalent of foundlings and even other adults with mental challenges? Do the pointy hatted bureaucrats fine them (or worse) for not having current ID?

I look forward to the day when these kind of ID required rules are scrapped.

WorldLux

I don't see why that should be an issue. Either the mental problems a person is suffering from are serious enough for a curatorship/trusteeship to be set up in which case, tasks, such as renewing IDs, are carried out by his curator/trustee (This depends obviously on the respective legislation) or they are not serious enough and there's no particular issue.

That said, the people working at those offices are human too. Nobody is crazy enough to fine an elderly or a mentally challenged for having an expired ID.

Why? You need one for traveling anyway. Furthermore even if an ID was no legal requirement, you would still need it. (Internet, bank services, gas, water, electricity providers; rental agencies; landlords, lessors; universities, employers).

GUWonder

I've gotten ISP, utilities, schooling, housing and even employment without presenting photo ID in some places. It worked out just fine for me and would still work out fine by me if the "we must see ID" craze went out like some craze for big hair back in 1984 or for David Hasselhoff in the 1990s.

And even now, I don't necessarily need an ID to travel in some parts. I have been traveling internationally this month too and stayed in hotels in three countries without showing photo ID to anyone. As a result of not having my ID so easily accessible for use this month compared to say the prior month, the chances of it being stolen or otherwise misused dropped down.