Is Frontier airlines worth it?

Old Sep 16, 2015, 7:00 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by wallyboag
Hi CMK10,

Since I am taking a red eye next month, just wondering what your experience was and if you might have any tips on mitigating the discomfort of the slimline seats... Bring your own cushion?

Out of curiosity, did they dim the cabin lights so people could sleep? Did you find that most people gave up trying to sleep and just stayed up the whole flight? What route were you on?
Bringing a neck pillow at the least probably couldn't hurt. They did indeed dim the lights but still sleeping in those chairs was agony. Like I said, I won't be doing it again.
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Old Sep 16, 2015, 10:53 am
  #17  
 
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Just to inject a little actual information into this discussion.

Here are the frontier stats for JULY from DoT:

On Time 5,774 71.37% N/A N/A
Air Carrier Delay 474 5.86% 32,254 21.92%
Weather Delay 25 0.31% 1,254 0.85%
National Aviation System Delay 1,151 14.23% 57,740 39.23%
Security Delay 0 0.00% 0 0.00%
Aircraft Arriving Late 614 7.59% 55,927 38.00%
Cancelled 33 0.41% N/A N/A
Diverted 19 0.23% N/A N/A
Total Operations 8,090 100.00% 147,175 100.00%

Sorry for the formatting.

Here is the Southwest data for the same period:

On Time 83,575 73.54% N/A N/A
Air Carrier Delay 8,805 7.75% 489,665 30.06%
Weather Delay 797 0.70% 57,282 3.52%
National Aviation System Delay 4,602 4.05% 198,561 12.19%
Security Delay 37 0.03% 1,033 0.06%
Aircraft Arriving Late 14,595 12.84% 882,517 54.17%
Cancelled 839 0.74% N/A N/A
Diverted 400 0.35% N/A N/A
Total Operations 113,650 100.00% 1,629,058 100.00%

Note that Southwest cancelled flights at nearly double the rate as Frontier, although the impact was probably much less since Frontier does not offer the frequency Southwest does.
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Old Sep 16, 2015, 11:56 am
  #18  
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Originally Posted by rsteinmetz70112
Note that Southwest cancelled flights at nearly double the rate as Frontier...
Not really a very instructive point as Frontier operated about 7% the number of flights Southwest operated (8k versus 113k) and Southwest has a robust network (Few if any WN stations offer service to only one destination) plus heavy frequencies, whereas the F9 schedule is heavy with one-a-days or even less frequent service and almost everything goes to or through DEN.

When you look through the statistics, Southwest has the more reliable and accommodating network.
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Old Sep 22, 2015, 12:12 pm
  #19  
 
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Recent Frontier Airlines Elite Experience and Tips

Just got back from a trip flying Frontier SFO-DEN-DCA and back as an F9 Elite with my wife and two kids (3 year old and a lap child). I wanted to post my experience in case it helps others who want to know what to expect.

Check-in Experience

With F9 Elite status you get free seat selection and carry-on (for you only, not for others in your party). You also get priority check-in, priority security, and priority boarding. To avoid paying the $72 it would have cost to pay for seats together I decided to choose my own seat and then avoid assigning the other two seats and waiting to see where they were placed at check-in. I was curious if the seat assignment system would put the seats together with mine since I was the only seat selected in my row at check-in . At check-in around T-24 the two unassigned reservations were assigned seats at 20E, 20F (SFO-DEN) and 20A, 20B (DEN-DCA).

Since my seats were now apart from theirs I went back into my Frontier account and moved my seat to be by theirs. Strangely, even after I did that the Boarding Pass didn't update with the new seat assignment, but when I asked about this at the airport they printed me off a new correct one and said their system did show all the seats together.

It looked like the system tries to keep parties together so learning from this I went in and canceled my assignment for the returning flights and sure enough for the return flight we were all assigned seats together in the same row. Luckily, our seats for the flight into DCA were facing east when we flew the River Visual Approach which was an added bonus.

Airport Experience

Since we typically fly WN just about everywhere I was used to having to go to the check-in desk to show proof of age for the infant as a lap-child. I was able to bypass the regular line and go the the "Ascent and Summit" lane where the agent curtly told me it wasn't necessary. We didn't use the elite security lane at SFO because there was no line at security.

SFO-DEN flight was delayed for 1 hour due to weather with no announcements coming from the gate. I did overhear one disgruntled passenger angrily tell the GA as he showed her one his phone that the weather was perfect in DEN to which the agent firmly replied, "Sir, there is a lot of space between here and Denver, have you checked the weather for those 800 miles?" He grunted and huffed off.

Boarding was done by zone with families with children allowed to board with elites and Zone 1. Boarding started about 40 minutes prior to scheduled departure time, and two of our flights left the gate about 10 minutes early. Since I am not in a rush to sit in a metal tube for 3 hours with 2 kids, we waited to be some of the last to board, and since carry-ons cost more than a checked bag, there was plenty of space in the overhead for carry-ons and personal items.

On Board Experience

All of our flights (1 A319, 3 A320s) all had the new slimline seats. I am 5'10" and had plenty of legroom, I imagine if you are 6' or above you would want to consider opting for the stretch seats but avoid the bulkhead on the ABC side of the aircraft. I thought the slimline seats had adequate padding on the bottom but the back was terrible, you could feel the metal frame if you push against the back. I would never fly a red-eye on one of these aircraft. I think they're fine for up to about 2 hours but after that they get rather uncomfortable. The most annoying thing for me was the positioning of the life vest below the seat. The way the hang from the bottom causes them to hit against the back of the seats.

I noticed that they kept the seat belt light off much more that I'm used to on WN. On all our flights they kept it off even during a bit of jostling and even on the descent up until about 10 minutes before landing.

The cabin crew was upfront about the buy-on-board system although they do offer cups of bottled water for free, which is more than NK and G4 offer. Prices are cheaper than you'd pay in the airport for the same thing, $3 for snacks, $2 for soft drinks, juices.

Overall, I wouldn't hesitate to fly Frontier again for short trips where I can fit everything into a personal item or carry-on (as long as I can get carry-on for free) and for short flights. I also wouldn't recommend paying for seat selections unless you have particular seats that you want.
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Old Sep 22, 2015, 8:25 pm
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Originally Posted by BearX220
Not really a very instructive point as Frontier operated about 7% the number of flights Southwest operated (8k versus 113k) and Southwest has a robust network (Few if any WN stations offer service to only one destination) plus heavy frequencies, whereas the F9 schedule is heavy with one-a-days or even less frequent service and almost everything goes to or through DEN.

When you look through the statistics, Southwest has the more reliable and accommodating network.
I may beg to differ.

According to the statistics any individual passenger is about as likely to be delayed on Frontier as Southwest. You are correct than in the event of a cancellation Southwest is more likely to be able to accommodate passengers. Frontier's system incorporates fewer connections and I would guess has fewer on average mis-connections than Southwest, but that statistic is not reported.
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Old Oct 6, 2015, 8:22 pm
  #21  
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I just looked at the October fares between PHL and MIA: a route I just flew on Frontier for $15, and which AA/US is clearly unhappy to have the competition.

But other than the weird (and unsustainable) $15 fares, it generally costs $30 more each way to fly AA/US instead of Frontier. That's pretty much Frontier's bag fee. So unless you're the unusual person who can travel with just a backback or insist on checking a bag instead of carrying it aboard, it's hard to understand why you'd fly Frontier unless you were unfamiliar with their additional fees.
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Old Oct 6, 2015, 9:25 pm
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Originally Posted by iahphx
I just looked at the October fares between PHL and MIA: a route I just flew on Frontier for $15, and which AA/US is clearly unhappy to have the competition.

But other than the weird (and unsustainable) $15 fares, it generally costs $30 more each way to fly AA/US instead of Frontier. That's pretty much Frontier's bag fee. So unless you're the unusual person who can travel with just a backback or insist on checking a bag instead of carrying it aboard, it's hard to understand why you'd fly Frontier unless you were unfamiliar with their additional fees.
My experiance is that Frontier passengers generally do understand the rules and act accordingly. Most don't have carry on bags and make do with a backpack. Of course I don't know how many checked bags. If I have to take a large bag I generally perfer to check it rather than carry it on.
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Old Oct 6, 2015, 11:28 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by rsteinmetz70112
My experiance is that Frontier passengers generally do understand the rules and act accordingly. Most don't have carry on bags and make do with a backpack.
If that were truly the case, I don't think the airline would stay in business. A majority of people must be paying fees.
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Old Oct 7, 2015, 8:04 am
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Originally Posted by iahphx
I just looked at the October fares between PHL and MIA: a route I just flew on Frontier for $15, and which AA/US is clearly unhappy to have the competition.

But other than the weird (and unsustainable) $15 fares, it generally costs $30 more each way to fly AA/US instead of Frontier. That's pretty much Frontier's bag fee. So unless you're the unusual person who can travel with just a backback or insist on checking a bag instead of carrying it aboard, it's hard to understand why you'd fly Frontier unless you were unfamiliar with their additional fees.
Peak flying to So. Florida might be between January-May. So, maybe fares will be higher and more varying between AA and F9, where F9 will be still a better value for those looking to save money. I did see some dates in October where F9's base fare is $59 on that route and $29 for DenDeal customers, while AA's fares on nonstops are north of $120 or more.

JetBlue will be starting PHL-FLL next year and adding more seats/competition into the market, so it will be different next year for Frontier than it was this year.

Whatever the case if Frontier can't make money any longer on the route, it's route planners just move the flight elsewhere. Not so fun esp. if PHL loses a route, but F9 is a private company and as consumer there isn't much relationship between us and them, other than them providing transit for a given ticket.

On another note, I still find it odd there is no flight service between Lehigh Valley (ABE) and South Florida.

Looking at population numbers, if Philadelphia's metropolitan area - Berks County is 7 million, and Lehigh Valley + Berks Co. = 1.2 million (as Berks Co is closer to ABE), that is a 85% to 15% ratio between the two neighboring regions. Yet PHL+ACY have a high number of South Florida flights, but ABE has none? Seems like F9 or G4 could offer one nonstop and it'd be popular. ABE is also closer to the Poconos which could be a nice escape for So. Floridians to visit in the summer. But, ABE doesn't fit in the profile of the airport that F9 is seeking anymore.

F9 wants to be in primary major market airports much like it's successful peer Spirit. Spirit has shown success on several of it's PHL routes even before F9 came into PHL.

Back when US and WN were fare matching NK on PHL-Dallas with WN matching on 1-stops, I used to wonder why people would choose Spirit when US was fare matching comparable nonstops. I looked at load factors on NK's PHL-DFW, and indeed NK LF's were still high. It could be also there were a lot of late bookings that help filled NK's flight, when US was likely charging more.

However, I did notice (more recently) that routes like PHL-DFW/LAS on Spirit do offer connections westbound, so Spirit isn't likely entirely depending on O&D. At times, Spirit fares will show up between PHL and Bay Area on kayak as the lowest, with a PHL-DFW/LAS-OAK type itinery.

Last edited by rtalk25; Oct 7, 2015 at 8:32 am
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Old Oct 7, 2015, 11:43 am
  #25  
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I've booked two tickets on F9 TPA-DEN-TPA in January. $49 each way, $196 for two RT (plus $100 for a checked bag for each of us, round trip). No connections to worry about in January. Can't beat it.

My primary concern is that a lot of the endless series of 1* reviews on Yelp (almost all of which seem to be from people who didn't read what they were buying when the bought the ticket) mention extremely long lines for checking bags at DEN. We have a 6:30 AM flight from DEN-TPA. How early do I need to get there to check bags and still make the 45 minute cut off?

Last edited by SRQ Guy; Oct 7, 2015 at 11:52 am
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Old Oct 7, 2015, 2:40 pm
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Originally Posted by rtalk25
However, I did notice (more recently) that routes like PHL-DFW/LAS on Spirit do offer connections westbound, so Spirit isn't likely entirely depending on O&D. At times, Spirit fares will show up between PHL and Bay Area on kayak as the lowest, with a PHL-DFW/LAS-OAK type itinerary.
According to their timetable, Spirit now has a grand total of 5 flights (to 5 different destinations) from PHL. This does not seem like a rip-roaring success.
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Old Oct 7, 2015, 2:46 pm
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Originally Posted by SRQ Guy
I've booked two tickets on F9 TPA-DEN-TPA in January. $49 each way, $196 for two RT (plus $100 for a checked bag for each of us, round trip). No connections to worry about in January. Can't beat it.

My primary concern is that a lot of the endless series of 1* reviews on Yelp (almost all of which seem to be from people who didn't read what they were buying when the bought the ticket) mention extremely long lines for checking bags at DEN. We have a 6:30 AM flight from DEN-TPA. How early do I need to get there to check bags and still make the 45 minute cut off?
Given the isolation and inefficiency of the DEN airport, that's going to be an early morning. What time does their ticket counter open? I would think you'd have to be there at 5 am.

As far as "beating" the fare, I personally would prefer going to Staples and collecting enough UR points for the nonstop flights on UA. Even without Staples promos (like the one this week), the 25,000 points would cost about $150 each (and your time -- which I guess you can spend at the DEN airport at 5 am or at a Staples/Walmart store at the time you choose). You could also apply for a new Chase card and save that trouble.

Indeed, I almost always "replace" a possible cheap Spirit or Frontier flight with an Avios or United MP redemption.
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Old Oct 7, 2015, 6:35 pm
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Originally Posted by iahphx
According to their timetable, Spirit now has a grand total of 5 flights (to 5 different destinations) from PHL. This does not seem like a rip-roaring success.
United also only offers 5 nonstop destinations out of PHL. JetBlue only offers 2 and AirTran only offered 2.

It's because it's a spoke, but connections offer more destinations. Spirit also offer more destinations through connections. Go on spirit.com, Select Philadelphia for From, and see the number of destinations in TO. I checked and OAK and LAX are two of the markets where it works.

Last edited by rtalk25; Oct 7, 2015 at 7:02 pm
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Old Oct 8, 2015, 6:46 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by iahphx
Given the isolation and inefficiency of the DEN airport, that's going to be an early morning. What time does their ticket counter open? I would think you'd have to be there at 5 am.

As far as "beating" the fare, I personally would prefer going to Staples and collecting enough UR points for the nonstop flights on UA. Even without Staples promos (like the one this week), the 25,000 points would cost about $150 each (and your time -- which I guess you can spend at the DEN airport at 5 am or at a Staples/Walmart store at the time you choose). You could also apply for a new Chase card and save that trouble.

Indeed, I almost always "replace" a possible cheap Spirit or Frontier flight with an Avios or United MP redemption.
Meh. It's not as if Untied provides a wonderful experience.

The 6:30 AM flight was one of the selling points. Flight times in both directions work better for me on Frontier than on Untied or on Southwest (which would otherwise, well that and the $400+ fare difference, have been my first choice).

Appreciate the advice to arrive at 5 AM. It was between that and 5:30. We'll be staying out near DEN that last night.
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Old Oct 8, 2015, 7:29 am
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Originally Posted by SRQ Guy
Meh. It's not as if Untied provides a wonderful experience.

The 6:30 AM flight was one of the selling points. Flight times in both directions work better for me on Frontier than on Untied or on Southwest (which would otherwise, well that and the $400+ fare difference, have been my first choice).

Appreciate the advice to arrive at 5 AM. It was between that and 5:30. We'll be staying out near DEN that last night.
Oh, I agree that UA doesn't offer a great experience. Heck, I'm a 1K and usually only get a mediocre-at-best experience. But it's still a heck of a lot better than the Frontier experience.

I only originate a couple times a year at DEN, so there are certainly folks way more knowledgeable than me on the subject, but I find flying out of DEN to be a major time sop. The airport was not designed for quickness. Even if you're staying near DEN (btw, a new Westin is going to open soon AT the terminal), it's still a slow process, especially if you have to return a car.
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