davywavy

I don't think Spirit's ACY-FLL would inhibit Frontier, just as Spirit at ACY didn't stop Frontier from TTN-ATL and TTN-DTW - and TTN-FLL.

This is a summer schedule, in part designed for when Florida traffic (and certainly south Florida) drops off a cliff in August/September. TTN-FLL/RSW, for example, are reduced in frequency in high summer.

I would not fall over in shock to see Frontier add more Florida at ILG, including maybe FLL, for the winter.

With regard to MIA the problem is passenger costs, which are high there. In 2010, MIA was about $17 per enplaned passenger.

http://www.miami-airport.com/pdfdoc/...arges_Book.pdf

At PHL it is about $12 and at ILG less than $5.

For a model based on low fares, it is a consideration. Over the years, MIA has approached LCC's (including Frontier) with offers of lower pax costs, but with no guarantee that these lower costs would last for longer than a year.

rtalk25

Well it appears Southwest is pulling out of PHL-FLL slowly. Atleast when I check October's schedule, I can only find 1 AirTran nonstop, and it doesn't even run everyday. That's a lot less than the WN/FL schedule from the past to both FLL and PBI.

If the merger happens with AA and US, PHL-MIA will be a monopoly->high fares as well, but that's years away and fares going up maybe more related to loss of LCCs. PHL-FLL might see low fares again if Spirit (who has a focus) runs it.

While Spirit services ACY-ORD, ACY-DTW, ACY-ATL seasonally, the bread and butter at ACY is ACY-Florida and many in So. NJ and Philly apparently use Spirit's ACY-FLL year round.

Even though pax costs are higher at MIA, would it be worth it for F9? Basically here-I don't know S. Florida very well, but would there be some that really want to land/depart out of MIA over FLL and willing to take ILG-MIA and TTN-MIA over say Spirit(BWI-FLL, ACY-FLL, possible PHL-FLL) or JetBlue (EWR-FLL).

Would PBI be another consideration for Frontier?

davywavy

Oh, I would love to see Frontier at MIA. I've been posting about it for years and I am told that it very nearly happened in about 2007 (the low cost deal above).

But - it didn't happen so I can only live in hope.

I think PBI is absolutely a consideration (TTN or ILG?), and I also wonder about JAX. When Frontier flew DEN-JAX it got great loads, but I don't know if that transfers to TTN or ILG.

I guess if I had my druthers, I'd rather see PHF-JAX. I was hoping Frontier would pick up PHF-MCO, but Allegiant got in first. Sill, I'd like to see PHF to Somewhere South. :-)

rtalk25

Hopefully ILG will get a jet bridge. There are no NIMBY issues and New Castle/Delaware should be supportive of service and improving ILG to spur growth in the state.

But by then as ILG becomes more attractive, Spirit might move it's PHL service to ILG like Spirit does LBE over PIT, and Frontier might lose it's exclusivity of the place. There is greater separation between ILG and ACY, and with Spirit choosing LBE over PIT, I think Spirit would be the only LCC that might consider ILG. I can't see SW with BWI.

It'd be funny if Frontier ran some Spirit style advertising. Fly to Delaware and shop with no sales tax.

In Chicago, items have a near 10% sales tax. Granted, if a leisure pax was flying from Chicago into Philly anyways, but chose F9 to ILG, the pax could make a stop at Christiana Mall to say buy a laptop or some tech gadget, before heading up to Philly.

I also think F9 should market it ILG as fly to the "Delaware Valley Wilmington/Philadelphia" instead of "Wilmington/Philadelphia area"

iahphx

I don't think Delaware will be willing to spend any money on ILG until there's some signs of commercial success. Too many recent failures.

I have seen some Frontier commercials for ILG on cable TV with the talking animals. Nothing about sales tax, though.

Speaking of sales tax, there is one on rental cars in DE but it's shocking low compared to what travelers are used to. I think it's like 2%. Car rental rates aren't high, either -- although that could change if demand exceeds supply with the new flights.

rtalk25

That's a conundrum IMO. If terminal facilities aren't great like jetbridges for pax to avoid inclement weather, pax might not book again on the carrier that is flying from that airport, which would make services fail. Other carriers might not like the lack of airport facilities.

Spirit's success at ACY is likely a huge part due to ACY being an positive experience, than Spirit being an positive experience for pax, although it has low fares.

But, Delaware maybe different than NJ or MD and it might be more conservative on the whole idea of spending to attract business.

Earthlings

No sales tax in Delaware is nice!!!

rtalk25

It seems Southwest's December schedule shows FLL, TPA and PBI back and on WN metal from PHL with atleast 2x daily. So, Southwest is committed keeping them seasonally, atleast during the peak season. Atleast during the peak season, there is demand even though WN will be competing indirectly from PHL. But, maybe F9 will have more Florida as well from ILG and TTN.

iahphx

Unless the airport becomes overcrowded -- like no place to park, ridiculous conditions in the terminal, long lines -- the fact that ILG is "dumpy" shouldn't become an issue at this time. I mean, really, would you not buy a discount fare because there are no jet bridges?

Obviously, if the airport becomes successful, people will expect improvements. And, I suspect, Delaware will be happy to make them. They've just been burned too many times before to pony up now. And, frankly, if I were advising them, I'd tell them to lay off the spending until we see what Frontier can do with this airport. As I've stated before, I think their current strategy is seriously flawed. The best thing that Frontier has going for them is that local residents are starved for low airfares. And lots of folks, including me, don't really want to fly Spirit. ACY is also a lot less inconvenient than ILG for a lot people.

davywavy

The lack of terminal facilities/jetbridges doesn't seem to be affecting passenger numbers at TTN - or doesn't appear to have done so, so far - and the Florida pax boarded through deepest winter.

Frontier has also told TTN that it wouldn't be happy about a bright, shiny - expensive - new terminal.

rtalk25

I didn't mean "dumpy" at ILG. Just that some improvements could help keep the airport competitive for service to last. I guess no one in Delaware would have known until more recently that there is a market for ULCCs to fly to markets like 1300 miles routes from alternate airports of major airports.

ILG is more convenient over ACY atleast for most counties in the Philly MSA. I'd say ILG covers west of Philly that ACY can't capture. It's doable within one hour to reach ILG from areas like Malvern and
Valley Forge.

Spirit has sardine can seats in the back and likes to be flashy and tacky, but Frontier is emulating them otherwise.

davywavy

I thought it was odd that the ILG airport website doesn't mention the arrival of Frontier, but they've gone all out with a new website - which surely does mention Frontier - and is somewhat brighter than the TTN website (such as it is):

http://www.flywilmilg.com

And free parking, folks. They've also started a new Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/FlyWilmILG

Which, like the website, is a bit jazzier than the TTN Facebook page. Time for TTN to get it's social media act together, methinks.

iahphx

Strange url for that website -- I don't think most folks will "get it."

And they're flat out lying about getting to "downtown Philadelphia" in 25 minutes. It's almost 40 miles.

davywavy

It took me a moment to twig, but I got there.

The TTN website isn't the most obvious one, either. Happily, it doesn't seem to affect the bookings for TTN.

lowfareair

Ya, I thought it said flywilming.com for a second. FlyILG.com is available, oddly enough.

And they're flat out lying about getting to "downtown Philadelphia" in 25 minutes. It's almost 40 miles. [/QUOTE]

Small typo - they meant get to downtown Philadelphia *by helicopter* in 25 minutes. I'm sure it will be fixed eventually.