JOUY31

Well, this has helped reduce the number of people killed by car accidents each year from 16K to 3K over the past 40 years, by changing the mindset of drivers. As to "the pure definition of an oppressive police state mentality", "normal" persons in France would think that comment would rightly apply to former East Germany or North Korea.

BadgerBoi

sob, boohoo, waaaahhhh...

been caught breaking the law somewhere have we?

iff

"unsuspecting visitors"? A person who drives in a country is expected to obey the rules of the road in that country. I see no reason why tourists should be exempt.

BadgerBoi

Funny coincidence this thread comes up, I just had some visitors from France staying with me (in Sydney) for 10 days or so. I hopped in a taxi with one of them who didn't want to wear his seatbelt. He knew it was the law here, same as it is "back home", he said that the police wouldn't see him and anyway he's a tourist who doesn't speak English so he'd be alright if he got caught.

I set him straight.

NickB

The concept of a fine for driving over a speed limit is, of course, a peculiarly French one that no-one outside France could possibly be expected to be familiar with. Nowhere else in the world is there such a thing as a speed limit on the road and it is so utterly original and outlandish as a concept that you can understand how someone could properly describe "unsuspecting visitors" those who are caught by this arcane rule, surely ...




then again....

iahphx

Just who ARE you people who SUPPORT this nonsense? I see them come out of the woodwork frequently on these "gotcha" speeding ticket threads. The idea of setting up cameras to fine people big money for tiny speed infractions is about as "big brother" as you get in the civilized world. Do you also support flogging for chewing gum violations? I'm just stunned by the inhumanity. I've gotten very, very few of these tickets in my lifetime, but I always sympathize with the unsuspecting victims (hardly anyone gets these tickets in their hometown) and loathe the "gov't officials" who resort to these shenanigans to raise revenue. That anyone who is a TRAVELER -- the folks most victimized by these things -- would support them truly boggles my mind.

YVR Cockroach

And there is actually talk of reducing speed on tertiary roads from 90 km/h to 80 km/h to reduce road fatalities. Better for you to avoid France and leave it for those of us who love it.

And at least France doesn't have police waiting everywhere for revenue speed traps as in your country...

BadgerBoi

Is it really so hard to keep within the speed limit? Or to put your seatbelt on? Or avoid jaywalking? If you know that chewing gum is illegal in Country X then avoid chewing gum in that country, or boycott the place if it's such a dreadful problem for you.

Just who ARE these people who constantly whine on FT when they get caught and then seek advice as to how to worm out of their obligations? Nobody gives a damn that it's "not the way we do things back home". If they want everything to be the way it is "back home" then they really should just stay put in Buffalo Poo Indiana or whichever utopia they come from.

ajGoes

The rate of fatal accidents in France has dropped dramatically since the government began strict enforcement of speed and alcohol limits. Considering that, until quite recently, foreign drivers could usually escape any fines, it's French drivers who have paid the vast majority of fines.

You must have noticed while driving in France that nearly every vehicle was going exactly at the speed limit. That could be a clue that they are aware of the cost of making a mistake.

Road deaths in France have dropped from 18,000 in 1972 to 3,268 in 2013. Obviously many factors have played a part, but traffic law enforcement has made a significant contribution.

iff

It goes against my better nature, but in the face of such hyperbole I can't resist responding. "Inhumanity"? "Unsuspecting victims"? Puh-leeze.

Those poor, poor "victimized" travelers--quelle horreur ! If you think ordinary citizens don't bear the bigger part of this, think again. I know a few people in France who do speed, and while they will of course complain when they receive the notice and lose points on their drivers' license (a more consequential penalty than those poor victimized travelers receive), they take responsibility for the fact that they were speeding and pay the fine.

(By the way, in my current location in the US, the police like to park in a few different places down the street from where I'm staying and sit with their radar to pick up speeders. I haven't gotten a ticket. Why? Very simple: Somehow I manage to obey the local speed limits. @:-))

Tamino

Interesting. What´s your feeling about the big RADAR warning signs that are posted just before a driver actually reaches the cameras themselves? Are they just a big nuisance, nothing to be taken seriously?

There is actually a 5kms allowance before a ticket is issued. Someone ticketed at 143 kms was probably actually clocked at 148 kms in a 130 kms zone. Are we to believe that is all OK, laws are for other people, that there is a special class that need not care about safety, and that those with such a blatant disregard for the rules of the road are not really a danger to others?

There are many who believe that your definition of civilized is anything but.

HMO

In Brazil, they blur the windshield images to avoid the identification of the driver and eventual passenger(s)
If the law was different for foreigners than for locals, I may agree with you...


According to a previous poster, France gives you 7km/h as a grace extra limit.
But anyway, you have a limit, and you must follow it. At home or overseas.

And I find the 15mph limit around some US schools very small and annoying. But I'm pretty sure if your offspring is attending a particular school which I'm passing by, you will appreciate I respect the limit. Even if I'm driving only 5 or 10 mph over the limit...

Big money? 45 euros? Come on, if you can afford a car, you can afford 45 bucks. If you can't, you have two choices - comply or sell the car. Or, in the travelers case, don't travel and/or don't rent one.

Yes, yes, very similar things... But we cannot disagree that Cingapura streets are clean...
But what do you prefer? A fine? Or do you prefer nothing? It meaning no rules? Or do you prefer rules, but not exactly the need to comply 100%, only what is more convenient for you at that particular time?

And I'm stunned with this absurd comparison.

Of course you get these fines at your home town - only happens that, after you got a couple, you probably should have learned where the radars are...

You always have the option of do not travel. Problem solved.

By the way, I believe it is much preposterous for you part to believe that foreigners are the most victimized. What are the percentage of fines issued to foreigners drivers versus local drivers? I don't know, but I really don't believe the foreigners fines pays the costs to run the system. If these systems were implemented, it was because a lot of locals didn't and don't comply with the rules. The foreigners are just collateral.

nrr

Were crackdowns on speed and alcohol done about the same time? Maybe it was the alcohol enforcement (more than the speed) which reduced fatalities by the huge amounts noted?

nrr

In the USA, it is, so far, rare to have speed limit enforcement cameras; so speed limit enforcement is done through actual police people [these may be in short supply]. If someone from the USA encounters electronic speed enforcement, they might be surprised but fined.

iahphx

Yeah, the idea that anybody -- yet alone a traveler -- would think that electronic speed enforcement is a good idea is pretty naïve about the way the real world works. In the USA, we mercifully have few speed cameras. Most of them seem to be in the DC area, and flyertalk is full of reports of travelers getting tickets. The cameras are typically on places like highway exits, where drivers will naturally slow down, but perhaps not as fast as the speed limit signs change. Bamm! A $100+ ticket for the unsuspecting traveler who's just driving "normally" and doesn't know the local trap.

It's obvious that electronic cameras are way more "efficient" than actual police officers in issuing tickets, and a rule-of-reason won't work with them.

I drive all over the world and, every year, it gets more difficult to avoid getting tickets because of the spread of electronic enforcement. At the rate things are going, it will be essentially impossible in a decade to drive outside your home town without getting a ticket for doing something that only the locals will know about.