changes on 4/1/09: Who is leaving and when [merged]

[JC25]

I'm in the last year to qualify for lifetime. Ok, i'll do that, and will do the most of my flights before march 31.
After i'll move to Staralliance. For me it doesn't matter at all, I can connect in several europeans countries without using CDG with AF. As I stay in Asia now, a since many years I have had some hope to see some better Asia air company joining ST. Ok, it seems they are more interested by Garuda or Aeroflot, and so on.
In Star, i'll not be a new customer, still silver level , may be they will pay some attention to a better customer in the future. i'll see.
In any way, AF is a *** air company with prices of an ***** ! SQ ask 2000 euros less to fly A380 1. suite from SIN to LHR than AF in 1. from SIN et CDG (return trip). It's up to them. Every service, onboard, lounges, and so on decreased all along these past years. To be FB PE, for which use ? less miles to earn, much more miles to spend, so for what ? May be for the smile they lost ?
Now money becomes rare, so I will put mine to those who like it the most, and gives me more back than AF. Ok, biz is biz : for me too.

[Flying Blues]

The incentives of staying with FB will now be completely gone... After april 1st I need to get out! Am new to this forum and would like to request info from anyone here about programs that match the status?! I am FB Platinum, which now is nothing but a joke... Is it confirmed that Star Alliance will match ? Any other airlines doing the same?

[cfischer]

Originally Posted by Flying Blues

The incentives of staying with FB will now be completely gone... After april 1st I need to get out! Am new to this forum and would like to request info from anyone here about programs that match the status?! I am FB Platinum, which now is nothing but a joke... Is it confirmed that Star Alliance will match ? Any other airlines doing the same?

tons of airlines do status matches inside and outside of skyteam, just look around the different forums. If you are a FB PE, many airlines will welcome you right away in their highest status.

[albireo]

Most of my travel is based ex-CDG, and I value nonstop flights above all, so I am more or less stuck with AF in most cases. Without changing my flying pattern, with the reduced allocation for V and T fares (most of my long-haul tickets) I should barely requalify my Platinum status in 2009 (for the 5th year in a row), and will most certainly downgrade to Gold in 2010. So long for PlatLife (will that mean something 5 years from now, anyway?).

As a result I'm going to be more volatile than ever, deciding on a case by case basis depending on cost/convenience/service ratios. And when choosing AF, I will certainly seek L/Q fares (and N fares in Europe) more aggressively than before, having lost most of the incentive for accruing miles or maintaining status (I should be able to keep Gold, hence lounge access, easily as long as the Amex partnership works).

I never expected frequent flyer programs to be around forever (at least under this form) so I'm not too disappointed. The most annoying point is the short notice (6 months would have been more decent) but, hey, they had no legal obligation for a longer lead time and what can we expect from a company that does not even hold onto its written promises (to rescind fuel surcharges). We all know now that AF cannot be trusted and their PR department is managed by professional liars. Shame on them .

[Zembla]

Originally Posted by albireo

(I should be able to keep Gold, hence lounge access, easily as long as the Amex partnership works).

You could also buy lounge access with Priority Pass. For less than 300 euro's per year, the cost of a not too expensive inter european Y ticket...could be worth considering if you can win it back with better frequent flyer benefits/cheaper tickets.

And no I have nothing to do with Priority Pass. Just a tip. Thank you!

[albireo]

Well, there is no PriorityPass lounge in the CDG terminals served by AF, and besides the Gold Amex is free (if you spend more than 20k€/year and ask). Finally, and at least for the moment being Elite Plus enables you to invite a travelling companion in the lounge, which costs $27 with the PriorityPass.

[Mennix]

Had my last planned KL flight last night ( 652 IAD to AMS ), Couldn't sleep more than 2 - 3 hours. My next one will BA and I'm really happy to fly real flat seats from there on. If BA meets my expectations I'll be gone ( several reasons ). Being FB lifetimer is not a real value and I'll have BA Gold after 3 TATL returns ( means for me 6 weeks ).

The biggest joke: BA Business is for me ( can't book more than 3 weeks in advance ) appr. 20 % lower in price than KLM. And I expect them to be better.

Most of my flights are US East Coast. Return flights like last night, where they need 2 1/2 hrs to get the cabin quite and dark are a nightmare. Really like the BA idea to have dinner in the Lounge and have a quite cabin directly from departure. Should give you more ( and seat based better ) sleep, even flight is a bit shorter than to AMS.

[brunos]

Originally Posted by albireo

Most of my travel is based ex-CDG, and I value nonstop flights above all, so I am more or less stuck with AF in most cases. Without changing my flying pattern, with the reduced allocation for V and T fares (most of my long-haul tickets) I should barely requalify my Platinum status in 2009 (for the 5th year in a row), and will most certainly downgrade to Gold in 2010. So long for PlatLife (will that mean something 5 years from now, anyway?).

As a result I'm going to be more volatile than ever, deciding on a case by case basis depending on cost/convenience/service ratios. And when choosing AF, I will certainly seek L/Q fares (and N fares in Europe) more aggressively than before, having lost most of the incentive for accruing miles or maintaining status (I should be able to keep Gold, hence lounge access, easily as long as the Amex partnership works).

I never expected frequent flyer programs to be around forever (at least under this form) so I'm not too disappointed. The most annoying point is the short notice (6 months would have been more decent) but, hey, they had no legal obligation for a longer lead time and what can we expect from a company that does not even hold onto its written promises (to rescind fuel surcharges). We all know now that AF cannot be trusted and their PR department is managed by professional liars. Shame on them .

Not sure why flying out of Paris nonstop requires AF. If you privilege the quality of OW, you can fly nonstop CX to HKG, JL to Japan, QF to australia (one-stop like AF; also CX or JL), EC (BA) to JFK. Just an example as *A also has many options with SQ, NH, OZ,... and soon CO.

[Tartar21]

Have to confess that I didn't really pay any attention to the April 1 changes until booking my next trip. I made FB Gold by 378 miles last year (yes! - I try to keep that qualification threshold as low as possible, having managed CO GE by 800 miles the previous year).

Thanks to all the FT discussion, I reviewed my flights over the last year, the vast majority of which were made in H and Q. My first Skyteam flight of the year is in T. All of these weigh in at 50% EQM under the new system, but rated 100% before.

I qualify via long-hauls - my average flight lengths back and forth from the Middle East come in between 12 and 15K roundtrip, depending upon the routing. Under this new system (and realistically assuming the same fare classes for the next year), I'm looking at 6 to 7.5 EQM for each round trip, meaning that it will take me between 6 and 7 roundtrips per year to requalify Gold on FB.

As I look at DL/NW, those fare classes still come in at 100%, meaning that - even with DL/NW higher Gold Elte qualification level compared to FB (50K miles for DL/NW vs 40K for FB) - I can requalify as SkyTeam GE depending on only 4 to 5 roundtrips.

So, for me, it's not so much a question of switching to *Alliance as it is selecting which SkyTeam program to patronize.

BTW, my boss prefers United and, goodness, if you want to see poor seat selection, try logging onto United without any MP elite status - hello middle seat for the long-haul 5-across! I can usually get brought up to E+ when he's traveling, and am acquiring my MP miles that way.

One last thought for we long-haul economy flyers - even with E+, I think the SkyTeam long-hauls are a better choice. The new AVOD systems on the KLM and NW flights are so much better than United's current "take or leave these 5 movies that start whenever we decide" and in a different galaxy than LH's "now iss der time ve all vatch der same program on der descending TV monitors."

To make matters worse, United charges for its drinks - and precisely when you could use a lot of them - stuck in 60G with nothing to watch but re-runs of "Charles in Charge" with Cantonese subtitles. No thanks.

[Gajan]

Originally Posted by Tartar21

Have to confess that I didn't really pay any attention to the April 1 changes until booking my next trip. I made FB Gold by 378 miles last year (yes! - I try to keep that qualification threshold as low as possible, having managed CO GE by 800 miles the previous year).

Thanks to all the FT discussion, I reviewed my flights over the last year, the vast majority of which were made in H and Q. My first Skyteam flight of the year is in T. All of these weigh in at 50% EQM under the new system, but rated 100% before.

I qualify via long-hauls - my average flight lengths back and forth from the Middle East come in between 12 and 15K roundtrip, depending upon the routing. Under this new system (and realistically assuming the same fare classes for the next year), I'm looking at 6 to 7.5 EQM for each round trip, meaning that it will take me between 6 and 7 roundtrips per year to requalify Gold on FB.

As I look at DL/NW, those fare classes still come in at 100%, meaning that - even with DL/NW higher Gold Elte qualification level compared to FB (50K miles for DL/NW vs 40K for FB) - I can requalify as SkyTeam GE depending on only 4 to 5 roundtrips.

So, for me, it's not so much a question of switching to *Alliance as it is selecting which SkyTeam program to patronize.

BTW, my boss prefers United and, goodness, if you want to see poor seat selection, try logging onto United without any MP elite status - hello middle seat for the long-haul 5-across! I can usually get brought up to E+ when he's traveling, and am acquiring my MP miles that way.

One last thought for we long-haul economy flyers - even with E+, I think the SkyTeam long-hauls are a better choice. The new AVOD systems on the KLM and NW flights are so much better than United's current "take or leave these 5 movies that start whenever we decide" and in a different galaxy than LH's "now iss der time ve all vatch der same program on der descending TV monitors."

To make matters worse, United charges for its drinks - and precisely when you could use a lot of them - stuck in 60G with nothing to watch but re-runs of "Charles in Charge" with Cantonese subtitles. No thanks.

Qualifying with NW/DL will mean that you are "only" Elite and not Elite Plus anymore, so it might be worth taking that into consideration.

[Antheus2]

Here's a quickly translated version of the letter I sent to JC Spinetta. Not that I hope a reply, but I somehow "need" to say what I think:
Any comment is welcome

---
Sir,

I'd like to sincerely thank you for the upcoming changes in FB. Indeed, these "improvements" have convinced me not to fly on your airlines any more, which will help me saving money while trying new airlines.

Indeed, up to now, I used pay a premium to benefit from -among other- your FFP. However, the upcoming changes are making your program pointless, esp. compared to your competitors:
- Lower number of miles earned (up to -50%)
- Higher redemption levels (+122% for a RT in First to Asia, +33% in Biz)
- The highest surcharges and taxes of the industry
- a constant yet very poor customer service (they already lost 2 documents this year, no reply to emails, over 51 retroclaims in 7 years!)
- lastly, presenting these evolutions as "enhancements" is clearly an insult and a lack of respect to your clients, esp. the most loyal who are the most impacted by these evolutions.

So, after 7 years as a Plat, I'll choose your competitor whenever possible and, when I don't have a choice, will choose the lowest fare.
By the way, you cannot ignore that 100s of your client have already taken the same decision - see online forums like flyertalk.com.

Again, Sir, thanks for launching the first loyalty program... for your competitors.

Regards.

[planestupid]

This is the final nail in the coffin for my FB membership. I switched to M&M a year ago and never regretted it. I do concede that FF programmes need to make changes and many are simply a cost-cutting exercise. What annoys the heck out of me is the way they are being communicated and the short notice. M&M does make changes too but they tell you much earlier.

As regards the FB changes from 1 April 09, they are just making the programme even less attractive, but two things annoy me particularly:
1. Making business award flights about 30% more expensive: this is a devaluation of miles already earned. Giving members less miles per flight (in most booking classes) is something I can react to (i.e. stop flying with KL/AF), but as I won't have a chance to burn my miles before 1 April I will have to sit and watch my miles losing massively in value - and there is nothing I can do about it!!
2. The way theses chances are being communicated. Rather than beating about the bush and speaking of "adjustments" they should just tell us the truth and stop taking us for a fool. Example: "the more flexible your ticket is, the more miles are being credited to your account" I was expecting something along the lines of Miles & More (150% for highest Y, 50% for lowest), but in reality this should read "only if you spend twice as much on your economy ticket will you still get full miles."

[monahos]

I for one am 'grateful' the changes were announced at the beginning of the year, early enough not to waste any flights requalifying for FB status.

The alternatives may not fit my needs as well as FB in its prime did, but the witch-hunt by FB beancounters to systematically minimize their expenses douses cold water upon the good will instilled by years of good treatment. Since the Flying Dutchman days, I had come out largely ahead with various bonuses, op-ups, a nice stash of huisjes, even a couple of wins in daft FD (redeemed for a mileage-earning tix!) and FB (redeemed on promo C awards) online games, etc.

Now I get the same feeling from FB as I once had at the Le Havre Ibis, where the front desk systematically turned off the heating in my room during two winter months, and had to be asked to turn it back on every single evening. Not to mention the striking similarity between the coach seats in the 77W and the Ibis mattresses... I have vowed never to get near either again.

So I am off to BMI / M&M, which realistically are not much better than the new FB for those flying European airlines on discount fares. However, the mileage accrual levels are usually fair (read: >/=100%) when flying non-European airlines, which is a pleasure on Asian routes, less so on UA. I do admit that aspects such as FB's 30 segments for ST E+ are still attractive, for some travellers; I just happen not to be one of them (blame the CDG/AMS taxes).

What is striking is that in the past, product shortcomings were counterbalanced by FFP advantages. Now, it seems product, pricing, and FB have ganged up to systematically deny customers the satisfaction of getting but the minimum return for their money, something which has historically driven me away from providers in any industry.

[henkybaby]

Since outside of France it is still the easiest program in the world to get status (25K for Silver) and since my company has a "KL/AF unless" policy for flights originating in NL I probably will hold status in ST but not out of choice.

Privately I switched to OW over two years ago so I did not maintain PE (I am now Gold in ST). I did however reach Gold at BA. I know this can only be achieved if you fly premium class and in that sense it is an even tougher program than FB but then again: I feel OW Emerald actually means something. I get upgrades, better treatment, freebees (Upgrade For 2, AMEX 2 for 1, etc) that I never got at FB.

Now you can rant two ways:
For the people who got status in economy the change sucks big time. I did not get a sense that awards are now more expensive than on LH or BA so cannot judge there. WebAwards still very nice but if they cease, so shall I.

The other way is that you can hope that - now there PE's and Golds are actually guaranteed frequent high revenue flyers - they will upscale the product. More upgrades, better lounges (less busy), beter food, etc. If they include some perks like BA does it might be interesting.

However, the good FB program (even with all but the most recent 'improvements') was a reason for me to keep up with their sub par product. So now I need to compare the actual product... BA wins hands down since their business class in fully flat, they offer Economy Plus and they still fly First. Their lounges are far better, the food is quite nice and the F/A's are nice as well. BA CE (European business class) is an actual business class (although I heard that will change too) and they win on price on quite a few destinations.

For me: I will be going to BA with the occassional flight on AF/KL for work.

[FlyingSmurf]

I will fly once every 20 month on a cheapo AF/KL fare to keep my miles alive. And I will spend them for C-Class travel, as I need it.

But my money will go to LH, LX, BA, IB and AA. I don't understand how an airline could afford in these hard econimic situations to loose a lot of loyal paying customers. But if they can afford this ... (... they should do it and take other peoples money to finance it).