So how would you feel if suddenly, your flights only counted for 0.25 segments or 0.5 segments, and you would not make it to Silver? Your 16 actual flights would suddenly count as maybe 4 segments.
That's what's happening for those of us qualifying on miles earned. (In a way, the long distance flyers are being discriminated as compared to the short distance with a connect flyers.)
Cheers,
GenevaFlyer
OK I think I'm starting to understand (or at least see the picture a little clearer). What FB is doing is punishing the long distance flyer with a low(er) number of AFKL flights by reducing the points which would then keep these persons from gathering enough points to stay at an elite tier. Those who make many short trips with AFKL will gather level flights quicker and stay put or even move up.
I guess it then basically comes down to 2 camps: points or number of flights taken and those who are just after a certain elite status and those not too bothered with the actual points.
I belong to the "want to have elite status" (have loads of individual flights with low points) camp so it answers the question if I'll be leaving and the answer is no.
I have a general feeling that it is (or more or less impossible) to get free upgrades when checking in. It happened once for me with BA going from London to Narita and that was even without any elite status on my Flying Executive card. Oh well, we'll just have to wait and see what happens in the future I guess...
Programs: United 1K - Starwood Platinum - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum - Singapore Airlines PPS
Posts: 5,413
Living in Paris, I have no choice but to fly AF on some of my work destinations in Africa but you can be sure that I will not fly AF for my destinations on the other continents.. I could take the bad service and subpar product in C in the past but with the new "improvements" no thanks.
OK I think I'm starting to understand (or at least see the picture a little clearer). What FB is doing is punishing the long distance flyer with a low(er) number of AFKL flights by reducing the points which would then keep these persons from gathering enough points to stay at an elite tier.
That's exactly it. In my case, I qualify for platinum on miles earned, but would only qualify for Gold on flights taken.
What I'm in the process of doing is checking what elite level I could earn on CO for example. Once CO moves to *Alliance, and UA and AC start flying to GVA, they become an interesting alternative for me. That's just one example, and everyone has to consider this based on their own flying patterns. What works for me, based in GVA, flying mainly TATL, may not be the solution for you for example.
Although, of course, the question for you should be: how long will it take me to earn a free flight? With short flights and earning 189 miles per flight, collecting even 25'000 miles is going to take a while (33 roundtrips based on a 4 segment trip),
Having small children and a number of business projects throughout the whole year, the reduction from 36 to 20 months and the resulting early expiry of my miles caught me in complete surprise (I will hardly fly this year, and not with Skyteam unless a miracle occurs - and the miles of Mrs and Ms McDuck would have been lost anyway). We intended to use the miles next year, but had to shift plans, since we did not want the miles to get lost, so I just ordered a bunch of suitcases from AFKL's well hidden Onlineshop. My parents and my parents in law will soon have new luggage.
Although, of course, the question for you should be: how long will it take me to earn a free flight?
Mind you, for some people that is NOT the question. For them what matters are the "hassle smoothing goodies" of a FFP. Things like guaranteed reservation; dedicated and competent phone support; fast lanes at ticketing, check-in, security; lounge access and quality of lounges; access to best seats on planes and seat blocking; higher baggage allowance; reservation guarantee for awards; knowing that one counts and will be taken care of first and with some flexibility and goodwill in case of problems (re-booking, hotel accomodation, etc).
Flying Blue is relatively poor on all of these aspects, but all the recent changes have done is to just raise the bar higher in order to reach meaningful status levels. It has not made status benefits (even) poorer.
Don't get me wrong, I do not support FB changes, but I do not think that it will hurt AFKL as much as some foresee, and I also think that for people who care about recognition of loyalty in terms of "hassle smoothing" more than about miles this last round of changes brings no bad news (no good news either, but why would AFKL bring good news to its status pax )
__________________ Air France flights this year that worked smoothly (except force majeure): 35%
Mind you, for some people that is NOT the question. For them what matters are the "hassle smoothing goodies" of a FFP. ... Flying Blue is relatively poor on all of these aspects, but all the recent changes have done is to just raise the bar higher in order to reach meaningful status levels. It has not made status benefits (even) poorer.
Very true. In replying to Cupart, I also realized that the changes in terms of elite qualifying impact mostly the long distance flyers. As the segment qualifying is not impacted at all, people who qualify this way are not impacted in terms of reaching a certain level.
In any case, everyone will make their own mind up, based on their circumstances.
Don't get me wrong, I do not support FB changes, but I do not think that it will hurt AFKL as much as some foresee, and I also think that for people who care about recognition of loyalty in terms of "hassle smoothing" more than about miles this last round of changes brings no bad news (no good news either, but why would AFKL bring good news to its status pax )
I agree totally with creber about this. As I posted in another thread, even if the one-hundred or so who signed the petition spend 10k/year that can be redirected elsewhere, that would only represent 0,0005% of AF revenue (and at most 0,001% of their result, of most signees are business travellers. Very little compared to the amount saved by provisionning much less money for each mile given, and giving much less miles overhaul. I strongly support AF in its business decision to gut benefits from frequent flyers (what little benefits were left consisted in a generous award scheme, in fact).
They feel than can get away with it. They will lose business, they know it, and simply don't care because the expected benefits will far outweight the drawbacks. What's a few millions in their books? A company is not here to offer a quality product, but they are here to maximize revenue (or, given the 4th quarter result, minimize losses). They feel (and rightly IMHO) that having a FFP costs them too much for the current benefits for them, and can get most of their business while seriously costcutting the FFP.
For example, I have read on this board that the liability from the FFP is a little over 2 billions. If this figure is accurate (and I am not doubting the poster of the figure, but my memory), and they give overall 25% less miles and it costs 10% more to redeem a flight on average (some people redeem in coach because they will never have enough to get something else), they can reasonnably reduce the outstanding liability by 200 millions, and reduce the cost of new miles by a fourth... Much more that what they expect to lose with us leaving.
The best way to protect yourself from their policy change is simply not to fly with them anymore if they are no longer the best choice. I strongly doubt the efficiency of the petition, even though I support it (and thank Tuxtraveller for his work).
Mind you, for some people that is NOT the question. For them what matters are the "hassle smoothing goodies" of a FFP. Things like guaranteed reservation; dedicated and competent phone support; fast lanes at ticketing, check-in, security; lounge access and quality of lounges; access to best seats on planes and seat blocking; higher baggage allowance; reservation guarantee for awards; knowing that one counts and will be taken care of first and with some flexibility and goodwill in case of problems (re-booking, hotel accomodation, etc).
I'd say those are leisure travellers. I can't think of any FFP benefit awarded to member and denied to business/first customers, though in some case it can "stack" like luggage allowance.
I'd say those are leisure travellers. I can't think of any FFP benefit awarded to member and denied to business/first customers, though in some case it can "stack" like luggage allowance.
Yes... and no. Indeed most of the hard benefits should also available for Business and First pax, with the exception of some which are reserved for status card holders (e.g., reservation guarantee) - but FB doesn't have any of them anyway, which is one of the things that makes it so poor. Then there are some unwritten benefits and perks which should be available for high status pax, such as priority on the wait list or priority for upgrades, or preferred treatment in case of problems. But again, FB fails here, priority on the wait list is given to who shouts the loudest, priority for upgrades is given to AFKL staff and their buddies, and in case of problems people sleep on the floor of the airport. And then, even in C and F class travel, status pax should get better service than non-status C and F, such as the better seats, seat blocking, priority boarding, priority in meal selection. But again, all of that doesn't exist with FB.
To sum up, there should be differences between status pax and mere C/F passengers. But the reality of AFKL is such that there isn't any. So I am right in theory, and you are right in reality
Then there's another point: even business travelers go on leisure trips from time to time. And believe me, when you're traveling on July 12th with your family incl. a small kid and lots of luggage, it's a relaxing thought to know that one can check in at the Business counter with the shorter line, one doesn't have to worry about too much luggage and one can use the Acces No. 1 lane. Of course FB is poor again in extending certain benefits to family members: for instance, it can happen that although traveling on the same reservation, wife and child get bumped because of overbooking, but daddy who is a status pax is allowed to fly "Monsieur, we are happy to confirm your seat because you are a Platinum". Well thanks, do you expect me to leave my family behind in this madhouse airport of yours??
So, yes, again you are right, these benefits are relevant to leisure travelers. Just wanted to point out that even business travelers are leisure travelers from time to time. And this is why status perks do matter to business travelers, too. Pure leisure travelers typically don't reach status levels.
__________________ Air France flights this year that worked smoothly (except force majeure): 35%
The one and only thing missing in your list is that the quality of service at CDG perfectly fits to FB. But that is now another topic, e.g Europe's Worst Airports.
Flying on March 3rd HKG-CDG in CX paid F with my wife. CX gives decent deal in F (with a great suite) AF does not. The two 777 AF flights are totally empty in F: P8F8A8 for the 77W and P4F4A4 for the 772. All seats offered as A award for 100K, but no taker. The CX flight is F1A0 and all seats assigned except two, meaning that it is almost full with revenue pax. Many French expats in HK have left AF.
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