The new rule book is here! The new rule book is here! [merged]

[UTA_flyinghigh]

So in fact much ado about nothing for myself (and I suspect may others). I will (me) continue to fly DL as I have done over the last years and earn 100% EQM towards FB.

I shall also continue to avoid paid AFKL like the plague.

In short, nothing changes.

UTA

[leonardoBR]

I believe that the changes will be substantial in terms of people realising how serious the changes are only when they check their accounts after April 1st. I know many people who have Flying Blue cards (some of them even Elite members) but do not have time (OR INTEREST) to be reading updates on rule changes. They will only notice the changes once they fly and realise they will be getting virtually no miles for many of the flights. They will then complain, there will be uproar, and KL/AF will gently say that they have been warned. They will then get furious and switch to other programs. The frustrating bit is that we, the ones that care about developments and are actually those that are most loyal to AF/KLM, trying to follow their growth as if they were even a family member or a friend, have been trying to communicate with Air France/KLM about the changes and they will not listen and will not try to improve anything based on our comments.

One important point. Over the past weeks, I have contacted the KLM/Air France reservation line to enquire about ticket prices, and many of the attendants do not have a clue about any of the changes. This shows a complete disconnection between KLM/Air France and their FF programme personnel, which is very worrying.

[orbitmic]

Originally Posted by UTA_flyinghigh

So in fact much ado about nothing for myself (and I suspect may others).

I don't think that it is 'nothing' to many people. Most FB'ers do fly AF or KL some if not most (or all?) of the time and will see their accrual decrease dramatically. The change in redemption rates also remains. The fact that FB would have cold feet on their plan to decrease accrual for airline partner flights does not, in any way, make the changes acceptable. It makes them 90% scandalous, instead of 100% scandalous, which remains scandalous nonetheless...

[KL803]

Originally Posted by orbitmic

I don't think that it is 'nothing' to many people. Most FB'ers do fly AF or KL some if not most (or all?) of the time and will see their accrual decrease dramatically. The change in redemption rates also remains. (…) It makes them 90% scandalous, instead of 100% scandalous, which remains scandalous nonetheless...

I totally agree! For my most frequent destination (MNL) there's only KL with an acceptable schedule. So I most probably switch to *A at the end of this year, where there are a) more options, b) better earning rates and c) better redemption.

[Bring]

Originally Posted by KL803

I totally agree! For my most frequent destination (MNL) there's only KL with an acceptable schedule. So I most probably switch to *A at the end of this year, where there are a) more options, b) better earning rates and c) better redemption.

Same here. Have been using mainly KL, but now I see no point in prioritizing them. This last sneaky move has, in fact, made me rethink my whole travel set-up. Instead of going thru all the hassle with internet bookings and KL's substandard IT solutions, I am now switching to a local travel agency who will handle all my bookings.

They were happy to grab (my limited) travel budget when thrown on the table and they have further been instructed to avoid KL, something they of course were very happy to do. In fact they do claim that they usually only suggest using KL as a last resort. Sounds like my kind of travel agency

Free at last!

[planestupid]

We need to take our protest to the culprits. I wrote the following letter to the FB programme director today. My experience with FB customer service tells me that I should expect little more than a content-free standard reply letter, but let's see ...
(My Gold card will expire in two months' time as I effectively defected 18 months ago)


Mr Herbert Verschuren
Programme Director
Flying Blue
94852 Irvy-sur-Seine



Dear Mr Verschuren,

Having studied the proposed changes to the Flying Blue programme as of 1 April 2009 and having watched your interview on the Flying Blue website I am outraged. It is perfectly understandable that in the current downturn Flying Blue is keen to keep costs under control. My outrage is therefore not at the actual changes but rather at the timing and the way they were communicated:

1. Changes were only announced a mere ten weeks before they come into effect. As I do not have a chance to burn my miles before this date I will have to sit and watch my miles being devalued massively (I redeem in business class whenever possible as miles often have a negative value if redeemed in economy). Had the changes been announced within a reasonable timeframe (say, six months) I would have been able to use my miles before they lost in value.
2. Why can you not be honest about the changes? Trying to sell a cost-cutting exercise as “improvements for the benefits of our most loyal customers” is ridiculous. How stupid do you think your customers are? Let’s face it, ten per cent of Elite plus members may be better off after 1 April, but 90 per cent will suffer.

I was already unhappy with Flying Blue when it replaced Flying Dutchman. This is why I switched to Star Alliance as soon as I moved from x to y and no longer was a captive customer of AF/KLM. The latest deterioration of Flying Blue has turned a poor programme into an awful one and has eliminated even the slightest chance of me returning to Flying Blue. Your treatment of your most loyal customers is both unfair and patronising.

I would be interested in hearing your views on the issues I raised.

Yours sincerely,

planestupid

[simonsmith]

Originally Posted by planestupid

We need to take our protest to the culprits. I wrote the following letter to the FB programme director today. My experience with FB customer service tells me that I should expect little more than a content-free standard reply letter, but let's see ...
(My Gold card will expire in two months' time as I effectively defected 18 months ago)


Mr Herbert Verschuren
Programme Director
Flying Blue
94852 Irvy-sur-Seine



Dear Mr Verschuren,

Having studied the proposed changes to the Flying Blue programme as of 1 April 2009 and having watched your interview on the Flying Blue website I am outraged. It is perfectly understandable that in the current downturn Flying Blue is keen to keep costs under control. My outrage is therefore not at the actual changes but rather at the timing and the way they were communicated:

1. Changes were only announced a mere ten weeks before they come into effect. As I do not have a chance to burn my miles before this date I will have to sit and watch my miles being devalued massively (I redeem in business class whenever possible as miles often have a negative value if redeemed in economy). Had the changes been announced within a reasonable timeframe (say, six months) I would have been able to use my miles before they lost in value.
2. Why can you not be honest about the changes? Trying to sell a cost-cutting exercise as “improvements for the benefits of our most loyal customers” is ridiculous. How stupid do you think your customers are? Let’s face it, ten per cent of Elite plus members may be better off after 1 April, but 90 per cent will suffer.

I was already unhappy with Flying Blue when it replaced Flying Dutchman. This is why I switched to Star Alliance as soon as I moved from x to y and no longer was a captive customer of AF/KLM. The latest deterioration of Flying Blue has turned a poor programme into an awful one and has eliminated even the slightest chance of me returning to Flying Blue. Your treatment of your most loyal customers is both unfair and patronising.

I would be interested in hearing your views on the issues I raised.

Yours sincerely,

planestupid

Good luck : I have heard nothing back... have booked 2 C class trips on Star which I would have normally booked on AF/KLM

[Richelieu]

My elite status being well recognized, you'll certainly treated like a royalty and sent a standardized email answer not related in any way to your letter, like I got. Not that I expected more, but I felt I needed to make them record somehow that some customers where going away to the competition, and not simply flying less due to the economy and common cuts in business travel.

[orbitmic]

Originally Posted by planestupid

We need to take our protest to the culprits. I wrote the following letter to the FB programme director today. My experience with FB customer service tells me that I should expect little more than a content-free standard reply letter, but let's see ...
(My Gold card will expire in two months' time as I effectively defected 18 months ago)


Mr Herbert Verschuren
Programme Director
Flying Blue
94852 Irvy-sur-Seine



Dear Mr Verschuren,

Having studied the proposed changes to the Flying Blue programme as of 1 April 2009 and having watched your interview on the Flying Blue website I am outraged. It is perfectly understandable that in the current downturn Flying Blue is keen to keep costs under control. My outrage is therefore not at the actual changes but rather at the timing and the way they were communicated:

1. Changes were only announced a mere ten weeks before they come into effect. As I do not have a chance to burn my miles before this date I will have to sit and watch my miles being devalued massively (I redeem in business class whenever possible as miles often have a negative value if redeemed in economy). Had the changes been announced within a reasonable timeframe (say, six months) I would have been able to use my miles before they lost in value.
2. Why can you not be honest about the changes? Trying to sell a cost-cutting exercise as “improvements for the benefits of our most loyal customers” is ridiculous. How stupid do you think your customers are? Let’s face it, ten per cent of Elite plus members may be better off after 1 April, but 90 per cent will suffer.

I was already unhappy with Flying Blue when it replaced Flying Dutchman. This is why I switched to Star Alliance as soon as I moved from x to y and no longer was a captive customer of AF/KLM. The latest deterioration of Flying Blue has turned a poor programme into an awful one and has eliminated even the slightest chance of me returning to Flying Blue. Your treatment of your most loyal customers is both unfair and patronising.

I would be interested in hearing your views on the issues I raised.

Yours sincerely,

planestupid

Hmmm...I'm actually outraged by the actual changes - even more so than by the appalling (lack of) communication.

[leonardoBR]

Originally Posted by planestupid

W Let’s face it, ten per cent of Elite plus members may be better off after 1 April, but 90 per cent will suffer.

who are these ten percent???

[Richelieu]

Originally Posted by leonardoBR

who are these ten percent???

The one able to select their FFP and carrier, and who defected to Star Alliance.

[ericfr]

Originally Posted by leonardoBR

who are these ten percent???

My guess is that employees of large corporations or government will be less affected as they get negotiated discounts from the higher fares.

[Richelieu]

Originally Posted by ericfr

My guess is that employees of large corporations or government will be less affected as they get negotiated discounts from the higher fares.

Less affected doesn't mean better off. Even someone flying only on negociated J fare would earn 275% of miles flown (PE bonus, J COS bonus) insteand of the current 250%, but it would still be at loss if trying to redeem in P or J. The only people who would win would be this people if they only redeem in coach where in most case miles have a negative or negligible value compared to a paid ticket.

[ericfr]

Originally Posted by orbitmic

Hmmm...I'm actually outraged by the actual changes - even more so than by the appalling (lack of) communication.

I agree. For me the main issue is that they are reducing the value of what I have earned in the past when less miles were required for business class award tickets.

FB has simply ignored my last email - and I'm LT PE with tickets already booked in business class. I guess FB management doesn't really care if anyone flies with AF/KLM and they have their own agenda. If they are trying to reduce the number of miles granted to customers, they may just achieve their goal but at the expense of revenue for AF/KL.

We should all ask AF to start a new program with a new management team that does care about AF customers

[cfischer]

Originally Posted by ericfr

We should all ask AF to start a new program with a new management team that does care about AF customers

sorry, this is not possible