2) I am pretty sure they will "harmonise" mileage earning on codeshare flights so they earn the same as if booked on AF/KL codes.
I do not think that it will be as desired and easy as you think.
First, DL (or DLNW) is a different company and might have commercial attitudes that dont align with AFKL. They do compete with other US carriers (and non-US) ones and might think that they need to offer a better FFP than FB.
Second, it would not be easy to implement unless they introduce totally different fare buckets for their JV with AFKL. For example, DL will sell "M" fares to CDG, FRA, MEX, Asia. They implement the same accrual ratio for all of them. yes, they could multiply the fare buckets depending on whether it is an AFKL codeshare, an AFKL JV noncodeshare, a non JV, etc.. , but that would quickly become unmanageable.
I do not think that it will be as desired and easy as you think.
First, DL (or DLNW) is a different company and might have commercial attitudes that dont align with AFKL. They do compete with other US carriers (and non-US) ones and might think that they need to offer a better FFP than FB.
Second, it would not be easy to implement unless they introduce totally different fare buckets for their JV with AFKL. For example, DL will sell "M" fares to CDG, FRA, MEX, Asia. They implement the same accrual ratio for all of them. yes, they could multiply the fare buckets depending on whether it is an AFKL codeshare, an AFKL JV noncodeshare, a non JV, etc.. , but that would quickly become unmanageable.
No, I think you misunderstood me. I am not saying DL will change anything in their own FFP. All I am saying is that FB will ensure that one does not get more miles by flying AF/KL on a codeshare flight than by flying the same flight booked directly under the AF/KL flight number.
For example, today you can book an AF-operated CDG-JFK flight under a DL flight number (DL have anyway stopped flying their own metal on this route). The cheapest booking class is "U" (note that this is NOT a usual "DL" class, their usual cheapest is "T") but you earn 100% miles on FB. They could simply have all DL-coded flights in U earn 25% or whetever. Or, yes, they can go down the CO way and publish a whole list of "coded as, operated as" combinations.
__________________
PNC aux portes; armement des toboggans; vérification de la porte opposée.
Programs: AF/KL FB Platinum, BA Exec Club, CO One Pass Hilton Gold, IC Ambassador, Starwood Gold etc etc
Posts: 1,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomad1974
The cheapest booking class is "U" (note that this is NOT a usual "DL" class, their usual cheapest is "T") but you earn 100% miles on FB. They could simply have all DL-coded flights in U earn 25% or whetever.
On the detail, U is actually a usual DL fare class - the second lowest after T usually. They often release it on AF-operated CDG-JFK's (I've flown it quite often) but sometimes not very early, not on all flights, and few seats are available. But I fully agree with your more general point - I think AF/KL are trying to avoid such discrepencies as have existed in the past were the same seat at the same fare would earn you 25% in AF N and 100% in DL T.
BTW, from their sketchy monstruosity on the changes, they seem to announce only 150% on C class on all Skyteam partners while until now, European C class on AZ or OK (and probably others) has always earned 200%. I'm not sure if it is yet another mistake, or yet another stab in the back by these frequent flyer hating monsters...
On the detail, U is actually a usual DL fare class - the second lowest after T usually. They often release it on AF-operated CDG-JFK's (I've flown it quite often) but sometimes not very early, not on all flights, and few seats are available. But I fully agree with your more general point - I think AF/KL are trying to avoid such discrepencies as have existed in the past were the same seat at the same fare would earn you 25% in AF N and 100% in DL T.
BTW, from their sketchy monstruosity on the changes, they seem to announce only 150% on C class on all Skyteam partners while until now, European C class on AZ or OK (and probably others) has always earned 200%. I'm not sure if it is yet another mistake, or yet another stab in the back by these frequent flyer hating monsters...
Yes, you're right about "U" class, but what I meant is that this is the lowest codeshared class used by DL for AF flights. At least IME. I have never seen an AF-operated, DL-coded flight to book into "T". Even on the same route (e.g. CDG-ATL), at least IME, the same, essentially, fare, books into U for the AF-operated flight and into T for the DL-operated one.
__________________
PNC aux portes; armement des toboggans; vérification de la porte opposée.
No, I think you misunderstood me. I am not saying DL will change anything in their own FFP. All I am saying is that FB will ensure that one does not get more miles by flying AF/KL on a codeshare flight than by flying the same flight booked directly under the AF/KL flight number.
For example, today you can book an AF-operated CDG-JFK flight under a DL flight number (DL have anyway stopped flying their own metal on this route). The cheapest booking class is "U" (note that this is NOT a usual "DL" class, their usual cheapest is "T") but you earn 100% miles on FB. They could simply have all DL-coded flights in U earn 25% or whetever. Or, yes, they can go down the CO way and publish a whole list of "coded as, operated as" combinations.
Apologies, I read your post too quickly. Indeed, you are probably right.
My reaction was directed at pax who have decided to switch to DL/NW FFP while still flying on AFKL metal or codeshare (i.e. switch to another, more attractive, ST FFP). I considered doingt that, but my travel pattern makes it more attractive to concentrate all my flying on OW and *A.
Personally, I'm minimizing my use of regular paid travel on SkyTeam because AF-KL & DL-NW behemoths seem on a fast track of gutting the "loyalty" program benefits related to award ticket redemption.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomad1974
No, I think you misunderstood me. I am not saying DL will change anything in their own FFP. All I am saying is that FB will ensure that one does not get more miles by flying AF/KL on a codeshare flight than by flying the same flight booked directly under the AF/KL flight number.
Sooner or later, probably. That said, AF-KL hadn't even ensured this to be the case last year. Sometimes earning on a KL-coded-and-operated flight was greater if credited to NW than if credited to DL or AF-KL -- it is probably still the case.
The JV may have even been part of the reason why NW members earned more miles on those KL-operated fares than DL or AF-KL members did on those KL-operated flights.
__________________
This game is not as much fun as it used to be: 2008/2009 Frequent Flyer Program Fleecing Award goes to Delta Airlines
Programs: AF/KLM Plat/UA Million Miler/BD Gold/SPG Gold
Posts: 4,166
Skyteam Mileage Earning Post April 1
From FB Canada HelpDesk:
1. new mileage earning rates apply for flights FLOWN after April 1, even if they were purchased BEFORE April 1. So, its impirtant to know the new fare earning policy now.
2. The AF and KL earning rates are broken out by fare basis, so its clear the earning percentage for every class. The Skyteam partners information was presented in a much more vague fashion. Well, I've got very encouraging news for Skyteam partner flights; the mileage earning rates will NOT be changing:
NW:
JCZ= 150%
BHKLMQTY= 100%
V= 25%
DL:
ACDFJI= 150%
BGHKLMQVWXTVUS= 100%
CO:
CDJZR= 150%
GEBHKLMNQSTUVWY= 100%
KE:
CJR= 150%
TKMSYWZ= 100%
__________________
SUBLIMINAL Signature For Mods- C L E '0 9
1. new mileage earning rates apply for flights FLOWN after April 1, even if they were purchased BEFORE April 1. So, its impirtant to know the new fare earning policy now.
2. The AF and KL earning rates are broken out by fare basis, so its clear the earning percentage for every class. The Skyteam partners information was presented in a much more vague fashion. Well, I've got very encouraging news for Skyteam partner flights; the mileage earning rates will NOT be changing:
NW:
JCZ= 150%
BHKLMQTY= 100%
V= 25%
DL:
ACDFJI= 150%
BGHKLMQVWXTVUS= 100%
CO:
CDJZR= 150%
GEBHKLMNQSTUVWY= 100%
KE:
CJR= 150%
TKMSYWZ= 100%
Thank you for confirming my guess. Well, I think at least the other skyteam airlines are sensible in the way that they have decided to think things through first before announcing any changes. After April 1st, all my flights from London are now booked with Delta.
Programs: AF/KL FB Platinum, BA Exec Club, CO One Pass Hilton Gold, IC Ambassador, Starwood Gold etc etc
Posts: 1,156
This seems so odd - so basically, AF and KL are telling us: 'keep your card with us but do take your business away from us to take it to our Skyteam partners'?? It seems to mean that one will virtually always be better off flying another airline than AF or KL? It does seem to contradict what appears in the summary of changes though, which suggest that economy tickets with DL, KE, CO, etc earn 25% or 100%, and with NW, even worse, 0, 25, or 100%. Are you sure this might not be one sign of the serial incompetence of a significant minority of FB help desk people? Don't take me wrong, I know you are always 100% reliable as a poster, and I have no greater desire than to believe that this will indeed remain so, but it would just seem like such a change from what they published in early January, and such a suicidal commercial strategy that I can't see how this could fail to result in a severe drop in international passenger for them.
I don't question what Beaubo said, but I question the level of information displayed by the Canadian FB helpdesk. It may well be that nothing will change on April 1st because they have not yet decided how to reward flight on partner airlines... It would also explain why, 8 weeks before the changes applies, they have been unable to provide an "official" explanation on their website...
Programs: AF/KLM Plat/UA Million Miler/BD Gold/SPG Gold
Posts: 4,166
FWIW.......
1. I spoke to an agent who has been at FB many years
2. She consulted a supervisor after each inquiry I made to confirm her info
3. She referenced an internal notebook that specifically dealt with 'program changes after April 1'.
4. I had her note in my record that we had this specific discussion about mileage earning rate specifics/details.
Like many of you, I have plenty of travel that I need to book BEFORE April 1, even through the flights are after April 1, so I share the concern about the transparency and accuracy of program changes for Skyteam partners. What is VERY clear is that any flights after April 1 but bought before Apil 1, will NOT Be grandfathered at old mileage earning rates.
I strongly encourage chrissxb to have an AF/FB representative confirm or deny what I have reported from the FB Canada HelpDesk QUICKLY, so that we do not make flight bookings based on inaccurate or incomplete info.
In general, I have found the FB Canada HelpDesk very informative and accurate, and after more than 30 minutes on the phone thoroughly investigating this issue, I felt comfortable and confident posting here.
__________________
SUBLIMINAL Signature For Mods- C L E '0 9
Programs: AF/KL FB Platinum, BA Exec Club, CO One Pass Hilton Gold, IC Ambassador, Starwood Gold etc etc
Posts: 1,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaubo
FWIW.......
1. I spoke to an agent who has been at FB many years
2. She consulted a supervisor after each inquiry I made to confirm her info
3. She referenced an internal notebook that specifically dealt with 'program changes after April 1'.
4. I had her note in my record that we had this specific discussion about mileage earning rate specifics/details.
Like many of you, I have plenty of travel that I need to book BEFORE April 1, even through the flights are after April 1, so I share the concern about the transparency and accuracy of program changes for Skyteam partners. What is VERY clear is that any flights after April 1 but bought before Apil 1, will NOT Be grandfathered at old mileage earning rates.
I strongly encourage chrissxb to have an AF/FB representative confirm or deny what I have reported from the FB Canada HelpDesk QUICKLY, so that we do not make flight bookings based on inaccurate or incomplete info.
In general, I have found the FB Canada HelpDesk very informative and accurate, and after more than 30 minutes on the phone thoroughly investigating this issue, I felt comfortable and confident posting here.
Thanks for such a thorough investigation! It sounds indeed quite encouraging! And since we are told that AF/KL people monitor FT, if they think that their Canadian colleagues made a mistake, as you say, then let them officially deny it and provide the full earning table for partners instead - it is, in truth, unbelievable that you should have had to enquire to them about earnings rather than them voluntaring the information a mere 8 weeks before the supposed change. It adds to the impression of grotesque amateurism and unreliability conveyed by FB over this whole matter. But no hard feelings to them, if they cancel their planned changes altogether, I'll cancel my plan to move somewhere else...
Programs: AF/KLM Platinum; LH Senator, AA; Goldpoints+, MaS
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by orbitmic
This seems so odd - so basically, AF and KL are telling us: 'keep your card with us but do take your business away from us to take it to our Skyteam partners'?? It seems to mean that one will virtually always be better off flying another airline than AF or KL?
I have a recent experience that fully corresponds with this context: I need to book an open-jaw flight in Y, with options being KL, DL and AF, from best to worst connection available. KL is quoting a price above 4000€ DESPITE PLENTY OF AVAILABILITY, which is even higher than two one-way tix. This makes me taking my business to DL which - provided the mileage accrual with them does not change - is offering me 100% mileage for something like 1100€.
![The new rule book is here! The new rule book is here! [merged]](/forum/iconimages/flying-blue-air-france-klm/new-rule-book-here-new-rule-book-here-merged_ltr.gif)
