Hence CDG-HKG in biz will become 160000 instaed of teh current 120000
It is fun too note that 160000 was exactly the miles level for a First award a couple of months ago (before it was raised to 200000 and soon to be 400000 only for elite). That is a joke!
Programs: KLM /af Plat elite ... oh and some other shinney bits of plastic including a NEW BMI GOLD !
Posts: 426
So now with the reduced value of miles , increased cost of making award tickets in surcharges and the reduced availability of flights(irrespective of what they tell us about new availability .. somehow i do NOT believe them ) , what is the point in continuing to fly to earn them in the first place ?
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Flying Blue with my worthless bit of faded grey plastic...
Hence CDG-HKG in biz will become 160000 instaed of teh current 120000
It is fun too note that 160000 was exactly the miles level for a First award a couple of months ago
...and just 20K short of what LH wants (180K) for a First award...
Programs: Flying Blue life Platinum , *A Gold ,PC Plat. IC Royal Ambassador , SPG Platinum
Posts: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomad1974
These changes basically indicate that AF has decided to fully pursue the BA model: i.e. go for the premium passengers and forget about the rest. We will see how this works out for them in the next few years. Bearing in mind (1) whether this strategy has worked for BA is highly debatable; (2) whichever way you look at it, Paris is NOT London when it comes to sheer volumes of business O-D traffic (which is essentially what is being targeted); etc.
I agree, but compare what you get with a "premium economy" fare , 100% miles comparing with a K class ticket on AF, the costs are similar....
Programs: AF/FB outta the door Plat, NW Plat, bmi DC Gold, BA EC Gold, HHonors Diamond, SPG Plat
Posts: 1,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by psollitt
So now with the reduced value of miles , increased cost of making award tickets in surcharges and the reduced availability of flights(irrespective of what they tell us about new availability .. somehow i do NOT believe them ) , what is the point in continuing to fly to earn them in the first place ?
None. And I'd be happy to share results from a research project I did last month comparing Flying Blue, Diamond Club and Executive Club which showed that at that time already FB was highly uncompetitive in terms of the bang for buck in redeeming.
The new program is essentially useless for 99% of the people unless:
-You have a company who has an unlimited/fat travel budget (the possibilities here are diminishing daily)
-You are a multi-millionaire who only flies C or P but for some reason cannot afford a private jet.
I'm willing to bet that under the current scheme of things the number of Plats will diminish enormously, to a point where Flying Blue will realise this was the worst of their ideas since their inception. By that point, whether or not any people will come back is highly questionable.
Moderator: Flying Blue and Other European Frequent Flyer Programs
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: BCN - BD *G · Flying Dutchman RW
Posts: 7,514
I suspect that FB have done research and determined that all us whiners really make up a small part of the picture and further that most of their (valuable) customers don't really count FF matters into the equation when booking a flight. In the end, they just don't care if we stay or if we go.
I made the decision a year ago not to bother with SkyTeam anymore, but it was more due to KL's (and a to a lesser extent AF's) crap product than FB. The only ST flights I took in 2008 were a quick last-minute turnaround to MAD on UX so I could keep my soft landing.
Vueling and ClickAir have been serving my needs just fine inside Europe (with 25€ "upgrades" to something that more resembles business class than does Europe Select), and for long-haul I've been flying *A and not looking back.
I suspect this time next year it's going to be mighty quiet in this forum.
I suspect that FB have done research and determined that all us whiners really make up a small part of the picture and further that most of their (valuable) customers don't really count FF matters into the equation when booking a flight. In the end, they just don't care if we stay or if we go.
I think this is exactly right. The consequences of those changes have probably been thoroughly analyzed and they know what they're doing. Maybe they even anticipated the fact that it would instantly generate a rant thread on FT. But so what? In the end, we FTers are just a bunch of airline-geeks (no offence)... I hate to admit it, but they can definitely survive without us. Commenting on how bad they are going to have it in the future because of those changes may help us feel better, but the fact remains that those assertions are probably false. Otherwise they simply wouldn't have done it.
That being said, I'm just as p***ed off as you all are. But I like flying direct too much to switch to another alliance which would have me fly through FRA or LHR all the time. Simple as that. And I suspect that at the end of the day, I'm not the only one who thinks that trumps every other aspect (seat, service, FF program...).
Anyway, I want to use the miles I have while there's still time. Hence my question: if I book a Biz-award to the US now for travel in May, which rate am I going to have to redeem at, 90k or 120k?
This is real nonsense, and renders an already mediocre FFP almost totally worthless. There is really no reason for me to continue flying with them, and pay these stupid surcharges and taxes for transfer at CGD and AMS. Contrary to what and earlier poster wrote, I believe that the people on this forum are not so geeky and unimportant as you think. Many of them are loyal, premium frequent flyers who also care about the programmes they belong to. If we can somehow manage to boycott them, for a period anyway, it might well produce some reaction. Anyway, I will be not flying any more with AFKL, because I cannot not afford to throw hard-earned money at tickets with rubbish earning possibilities, with devalued redemption prospects. Many of us here fly on our own dime in economy, and it has been a major pain in the butt avoiding those 25% mileage earning fares. I copy below the note that I wrote to them:
This is a terrible mistake. You will lose many loyal frequent flyers, including myself. The two single benefits of Flying Blue until now have been 1) One Way award tickets and 2) interesting Promo Awards. It has been truly irritating, and not easy, making bookings that avoid the stupid 25% mileage earning classes N and V. So why not make it easier, and simply make all international (European) flights earn minimum 500 miles per sector, except for full fare Y and B? No more fiddling around with booking classes with ignorant call centre personnel. The fares are already high enough, especially with all absurd surcharges and taxes, that there is absolutely no point in remaining loyal to AFKL just to receive 25, 50 or 75% miles.There is too much competition from the low cost carriers.
I think this is exactly right. The consequences of those changes have probably been thoroughly analyzed and they know what they're doing. Maybe they even anticipated the fact that it would instantly generate a rant thread on FT. But so what? In the end, we FTers are just a bunch of airline-geeks (no offence)... I hate to admit it, but they can definitely survive without us. Commenting on how bad they are going to have it in the future because of those changes may help us feel better, but the fact remains that those assertions are probably false. Otherwise they simply wouldn't have done it.
That being said, I'm just as p***ed off as you all are. But I like flying direct too much to switch to another alliance which would have me fly through FRA or LHR all the time. Simple as that. And I suspect that at the end of the day, I'm not the only one who thinks that trumps every other aspect (seat, service, FF program...).
The thing is that, not unlike BA, direct flights mean that you are one of the customers that will fly them pretty much come what may.
Those of us who have to connect anyway may or may not keep flying them. When only 30% of KL pax are AMS O&D, I suspect that this devaluation can have a real impact on them. Especially for those who fly longhaul Y often for work.
Assuming these changes are carried over to OK+ but not copied by CSA for their own flights, the retention of segments means that I will likely still choose AFKL whenever I have to fly on a European city pair not served by CSA. For my (limited) longhaul flying, I'll take Aeroflot (better C product than AF anyway) to Asia and buy on price for TATL.
To me, these changes don't make an awful lot of a real difference, however I think they're shooting themselves in the foot and losing valuable customers for the sake of a handful of miles that cost them, what, 0.003 Euros each?
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Signature temporarily removed- apparently somebody hasn't seen me trying to speak Chinese.
Programs: FB Platinum LT, Skywards Gold, BMI Diamond Club Gold
Posts: 63
I was expecting more negative changes (as usual with FB), but this is really over the top. My own opinion is, they have recognized, that they have too many Elites, especially & Platinum’s, what cost them a lot, even they ere booked on a cheap ticket (lounge, additional luggage). So they want reduce the number of the Elites and avoid, to many of the Plats get "Lifetime". Consider, I am 33 years old, 9 years Plat already, after this year (if I qualify) I am entitled the rest of my life to carry 20 KG additional luggage and drink the "Pepsi" in the AF Lounge (if they don’t change the rules, ha-ha).
With the new fare & earning structure its very hard to remain your elite status (except your company pair your (full fare) tickets or you are flying business all the time.
I don’t know if AF/KLM will take advantage from these changes, in the current economic situation everybody is aware. Why pay more to get less? I have a mileage run who brings me 56.000 miles in next February. Then 10 more months time to collect 14.000 miles (what will get expensive now).
After I achieved my "lifetime" I will consider another program and only choose Skyteam to redeem or if need to take advantage of my elite benefits!
Now they will loose a customer who paid them every year at least 4000-5000 Euro from his own pocket. I hope many others will follow….
Are there other frequent flyer programs that can offer a matching status if you move to them? I would be thankful if someone could enlighten me on the issue. I am more than willing to abandon FB in this case.
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