The new rule book is here! The new rule book is here! [merged]

[GVA]

Originally Posted by alanw

I'm going to let the previous post stand, because I'm feeling charitable. However to answer the question, um, no. FT in general, and this forum in particular, does not exist solely to entertain a single person. For those who don't want to read the contents of this thread, there is a simple solution: don't click on it!

I really hope FlyingBlue are not going to pick up on your advice and not read (continue to? / begin?) this thread.

If I were AFKL I'd be happy to have a platform like FT where customers point out my problems and I'd set out to fix those right away.

Unfortunately I'm not FB or AFKL and it seems they seem quite content with not having any customers left in a few months time.

[jmbfrance]

Originally Posted by alanw

I'm going to let the previous post stand, because I'm feeling charitable. However to answer the question, um, no. FT in general, and this forum in particular, does not exist solely to entertain a single person. For those who don't want to read the contents of this thread, there is a simple solution: don't click on it!

Dear Alan,


This thread is very interesting and addresses a very important issue.

Unfortunately, we can find a mix of (justified) complains and of useful information. For instance, I am waiting for information about the REAL charts of CZ, CO, Dl and altri.

Could it be possible to divide it into two parts :

- the ashaming behaviour of FB ;

- the factual information about the new rules ?

[orbitmic]

All the factual information that there is to know is here: http://www.flyingblue-info.com/uk/ which means that sadly, the reason why you and everyone are still waiting to learn what the new accrual charts are for Skyteam partners is because FB cannot be a-sed to mention them. All we know is that it starts at 25% for all partners, except NW which has the dubious 'privilege' of having a 0% category (I'm not sure how this differs from a non-eligible class, unless it means that it is the polar opposite of domestic segments for French residents in that you get 0% miles but 1 segment??)

This means that the second thread that you propose would be pretty empty at this stage and likely to remain so for a while I would imagine. By contrast, if this is thread no1, I guess there is still plenty of frustration around for all of us to keep confirming how shocking we find the change of rules...

[Richelieu]

Originally Posted by orbitmic

except NW which has the dubious 'privilege' of having a 0% category (I'm not sure how this differs from a non-eligible class, unless it means that it is the polar opposite of domestic segments for French residents in that you get 0% miles but 1 segment??)

I'd say it's that : a qualifying segment, but no miles. Rest assured that you'll enjoy your full Platinum bonus of 100% of 0 miles on top of that! Seriously, nothing has transpired AFAIK regarding segment requalification, so I suppose it stays the same. An interesting and remaining perk for the low cost frequent flyer, I guess, as segment runs can be cheap in the US compared to Europe.

This means that the second thread that you propose would be pretty empty at this stage and likely to remain so for a while I would imagine. By contrast, if this is thread no1, I guess there is still plenty of frustration around for all of us to keep confirming how shocking we find the change of rules...

There is no hope this thread will achieve anything except venting. Those among us who feel the new program makes the AFKL overall offer inferior to the competition will leave. Those who can't will have to tough it out, I guess. But I see no ill in leaving while expressing dissatisfaction, so people who might read this thread know some customers are leaving not because of the economic crisis and stopped flying altogether, but because they found better alternative elsewhere.

[alanw]

Richelieu is right, this is just a convenient place for everyone to empty their spleen.

As some of you have figured out, FB do read this thread (and this forum) and even though AF policy prohibits them from speaking publicly some good eggs exist who try to offer a hand when they can. As soon as some clarification comes through for these gray areas, we'll start a new "just the facts" thread.

As for this thread, well, this dead horse isn't going to beat itself.

[FTP]

Originally Posted by orbitmic

All we know is that it starts at 25% for all partners, except NW which has the dubious 'privilege' of having a 0% category (I'm not sure how this differs from a non-eligible class, unless it means that it is the polar opposite of domestic segments for French residents in that you get 0% miles but 1 segment??)

loooooooool

IMO, the list of non award but still non eligible classes should be clearly annonced!
I've recently done a JFK SEL on KE. It was invoiced 912€ for one way only but I get no miles! Because it was in class H.

Ok I realize this before to confirm the booking, that's not the problem. But make it clear: NW is not the only airline with classes for tickets to be paid that give 0 miles! And with this presentation, even when eligible classes will be splited by reward category, non eligible classes will still be hidden and it will still be difficult to know how many they are and where :-/

[husseinbadr]

Originally Posted by Richelieu

I'd say it's that : a qualifying segment, but no miles. Rest assured that you'll enjoy your full Platinum bonus of 100% of 0 miles on top of that! Seriously, nothing has transpired AFAIK regarding segment requalification, so I suppose it stays the same. An interesting and remaining perk for the low cost frequent flyer, I guess, as segment runs can be cheap in the US compared to Europe.

That's if they don't force us US-based guys to eventually move over to DL SkyMiles, where qualifying segment levels are double those of FB. This is something they, at the very least, seem to be exploring and thinking about, judging by some of the questions asked on one of on-line questionnaire (don't remember which questionnaire exactly -- filled it out quite a few weeks ago).

[leonardoBR]

I have just received a text from a friend catching a flight from Schipol this morning (30/01) and he was telling me about huge posters being put up by LH offering a M&M status match for Flying Blue members. Can anyone confirm this please? He also texted from inside the KLM aircraft saying that the business class to GRU (9.55 departure) was virtually empty 10 min before take off.

[NickB]

Originally Posted by jmbfrance

The French Added Value Tax is fully refundable, by definition, if the added value is not added. If it is unclear :

- you have at ticket, I sum up 500 € fare and 500 € surcharge, plus about 100 VAT for fare and 100 VAT for surcharge ;

- you don not use the ticket : the fare part is cashed by AF (added value, you pay500+100) ; the surcharge is not cashed, not added value, you get 500 + 100).

There is no VAT on air transport.

[Mennix]

AFKL does read this thread. Already have seen KL FB help desk stuff reading it during their work time lol.

However, AFKL will not respond in public. They will also not change anything until April 1st. But be sure they're alarmed.

I think latest at the end of June, 3 month after they implemented their "improvements" they will have a review at their FF accounts. If anybody wants them to change something, my only advise must be: Don't fly a single flight with them in the second quarter 2009. I myself come from a 2 weekly TATL service ( mostly "Z", sometimes "I" or "D" ) down to ZERO. Last flight is done.

I expect a call ( they did this some years ago, too when I couldn't fly fo a while because of illness ) latest in mid of July. My answer why I stopped using them will be quite clear.

Don't fly anymore and don't give them your money. This is the only way to show them, that they don't improve their income by this changes, but that they are loosing money. Money is the only word they understand.

Good by AFKL, welcome BA ( as long, als they do not start to handle "I" fares worse, than regular Business ).

[wavyfly]

Originally Posted by leonardoBR

I have just received a text from a friend catching a flight from Schipol this morning (30/01) and he was telling me about huge posters being put up by LH offering a M&M status match for Flying Blue members. Can anyone confirm this please? He also texted from inside the KLM aircraft saying that the business class to GRU (9.55 departure) was virtually empty 10 min before take off.

That will be more than wonderful! Any news?

[jmbfrance]

Originally Posted by NickB

There is no VAT on air transport.

In my understanding, international air transport is free of VAT, but there is a VAT for domestic flights.

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affich...echCodeArticle

[NightFly]

Originally Posted by leonardoBR

I have just received a text from a friend catching a flight from Schipol this morning (30/01) and he was telling me about huge posters being put up by LH offering a M&M status match for Flying Blue members. Can anyone confirm this please?

My father will be flying through AMS on Tuesday, so hopefully he´ll find out more (unless all the KLM staff will be assigned overnight to remove every such poster ) Of course, should anyone have an information sooner, the better...

[nldogbert]

Hi,

I guess whether FB is going to take any action or not before or after April, I am already out of this game. The program is just too flaky with changes coming out of the blue. I don't want to keep switching between them or another ST program, so now I have returned back to my old ST program and will just stay there..(unless they get eaten up by AF/KLM in the future).

But all my business now for the coming year and next will be going to *A and OW. They are a breath of fresh air after all the issues with FB and AF/KLM attitude. Only way I will fly them if there are no option or forced too.. only thing I will miss is the those cute houses.

Au revoir/Tot ziens FB!

[nsx]

Originally Posted by nldogbert

I guess whether FB is going to take any action or not before or after April, I am already out of this game. The program is just too flaky with changes coming out of the blue.

This is why programs need to do a MUCH better job of vetting their program changes with focus groups and such BEFORE they announce any changes. Yes, you can soften the changes afterward, but your customers will fear that it's just a matter of time until you take another stab at it.

Moderate devaluations with plenty of advance notice don't really upset members these days. We expect them. It's the quick stabs in the back, especially no-notice changes, that kill our loyalty.