I really think it’s a bad move to implement these changes, and I am also rather disappointed by the fact that there has been no process to consult with the people that will be affected by these changes. AFKL have the means to do this: but they probably don’t have yet the organizational culture for this (BlueLab is an example of this, where despite the effort, time and resources that everybody invested, relatively very little has come out because of the lack of participatory culture in the company).
I’ve been FB Gold for the last 8 years, always flying in economy, which will now earn 25%-50%. So with the new changes I wouldn’t even make it to silver.
For me these changes are pretty clear: just like until now I’ve never flown One World because I know I don’t have big chances to earn status or miles with them, I will exclude AFKL and ST from my choices for the same reasons.
I’m pretty happy with *A for long haul and with the low cost for short hauls – that’s enough choice.
I spoke for 30min on the phone to the AFKL marketing division and flying blue.
these changes will happen. and there's nothing we can do about it. we can complain, they will listen to us, explain why they did it - but certainly not take it back.
I wonder who is behind these poorly calculated decisions? There has been no consultation with Elite members, surely never with me, we've been left completely in the dark. I have booked several tickets already for 2009 based on the old rules only to get the slap in the face now. Is this good publicity?
we can complain, they will listen to us, explain why they did it - but certainly not take it back.
I am wondering about what they can explain us since they don't even understand their own changes and give plausible explanations:
- CDG NAP in full flex eco gives 1600 miles return trip. Wrong, flexible full fare eco is Y/S/B and gives 3200 miles now, and in the new rules.
The other examples regarding flexible/not flexible tickets are also very approximative since booking classes and flexibility are not always linked, AF has Z fares that are fully flexible in some markets I remember.
I've started doing some 'analyses' on the concept of FB miles accrual being based more directly on ticket price (as per the interview on the announced changes). It's difficult to be exact, as the KLM website doesn't give your actual booking class until after you've paid (at least, as far as I can tell); however, here's what I found after looking at a weekend return trip, EDI-AMS, for May 2009.
The prices shown in the colour-coded boxes at the right of the screen are as shown in the list below. I've taken the average of the three "Europe Select" fares (presumably, Z, I and either C or J) and equated this to 200% mileage accrual; the third column gives the corresponding %age using the same £/% ratios for all classes (rounded to whole numbers). If somebody can equate the listed fares with booking class letters (or check my guesses), I would be grateful, and it would be interesting to see just how 'justified' the new accrual rates actually are ... using FB's own 'policy arithmetic'.
My initial observation is that FB have been mean, but not perhaps as drastically as at first it seems! The full-fare eco fares ahould be getting 150% (as the prices are really not very different from ES - and you don't even get the better meals); the 'mild discount' would qualify for 75% and only the very lowest fares would get the measly 25%.
Another way to do the maths (sorry, for you guys across the pond ... that's math) would be to equate the "B/S/X" to 100% (as it seems FB have done), which gives a good match to what FB are doing with the lower fares, but overrates the biz tix.
Any comments? I know that we would all like 100% for cheap tix but, if we can't get that, then more in the 75% would go some way towards a compromise!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry III
I've started doing some 'analyses' on the concept of FB miles accrual being based more directly on ticket price (as per the interview on the announced changes). It's difficult to be exact, as the KLM website doesn't give your actual booking class until after you've paid (at least, as far as I can tell);
Did you try View > Page Source? That might reveal the booking class codes.
BTW, for a look at what a spending-based FF program looks like, check out Virgin America's Elevate. It may superficially resemble a mileage-based program, but it pencils out to be a simple 9% rebate in the form of travel credit. Southwest is considering a similar structure for Rapid Rewards 2.0, an overhaul due late in 2009.
I spoke for 30min on the phone to the AFKL marketing division and flying blue.
they will continue to read this thread and within the next 3 or 4 days, I will be able to post an official statement as well as answers to some of your questions here in this forum. if you have specific questions you want to be answered ... don't hesitate to pm me. ... just one thing ... these changes will happen. and there's nothing we can do about it. we can complain, they will listen to us, explain why they did it - but certainly not take it back.
Thanks for taking the time to discuss this matter with Air France, KLM and/or Flying Blue. I have a few questions, quite straightforward I believe, that just require simple and clear answers.
Is it correct to say that an award ticket in business class to the USA is now going to cost what an award in first class used to cost one year ago (100,000)?
What are the new rates for first class awards? When is FB going to publish them (except 400,000 for the CDG-PEK-CDG example)?
FB announces that awards in P will be a privilege for Elite members only. Anyway how many Ivory members would have been able to afford 400,000 miles for 2 tickets to the US in P? So is it really a privilege for Elites?
FB promises un grand moment de luxe for a CDG-PEK-CDG award in Première Classe (or La Première, or L'Espace Première, you name it). I have flown 10 times in P, a hit and miss experience so far. What kind of dramatic changes to the product can we expect so that the P experience deserves the grand moment de luxe label? A new cabin? More privacy? No more upgrade for the captain's family? No more plastic trays for breakfast? A Chef at JFK?
I did contact miles & more and I got a status match from FB . I will still have the lounge access, the most important factor for me, travelling often but in economy. And I will still earn some miles!! I would never have thought about changing program but thanks to FB it is done!
To flyeroften: who and in what office you contacted in M&M? I tried twice and I was told that M&M is not doing status match from competing FFP and I have to fly all the miles to get the status. In my case it was Czech Miles and More hotline and supervisor in M&M hotline I do not know where, contacted by Swiss lounge staff in Zurich.
I sent a link of this thread to my contacts in AF HQ.
they're all reading it now and I will get an official
answer from marketing devision and flying blue
to post here in the thread.
Do you seriously think this will bear any result ? I would be shocked if AF / FB would actually respond in any meaningful way.
I am currently studying my alternative options and will likely reduce my travel on AF greatly.
I am rather unimpressed with the low quality of the information provided.
Just got an e-mail from 'm
"DHR. JOHAN REBEL,
Deze eerste editie van de Flying Blue-newsletter in 2009 biedt u weer volop nieuws over spaarmogelijkheden voor vluchtupgrades en hotelovernachtingen. Nieuwe contacten kunt u het komende jaar leggen via het eerste online sociale netwerk voor vliegtuigpassagiers: Bluenity. Verder informeren wij u over enkele wijzigingen in de programmaregels die vanaf april gaan gelden. En zoals altijd zijn er weer tal van aantrekkelijke manieren om meer Miles te sparen en uw voordeel te doen met aanbiedingen van onze vele partners."
After announcing lots of opportunities to earn miles and upgrade flights, they sneak in an announcement about "a few rule changes".
Further down:
"Als frequent flyer programma wil Flying Blue graag zijn trouwe klanten belonen. Daarom wijzigen wij per 1 april de regels met betrekking tot de geldigheid van Award Miles. Uw Award Miles blijven geldig zolang u tenminste één keer in de 20 maanden een vlucht maakt met KLM, AIR FRANCE, Air Europa, Kenya Airways, Aircalin of een van onze SkyTeam-partners. Daarnaast wordt er een sterker verband gelegd tussen het tickettarief, de ticketvoorwaarden en het aantal gespaarde Miles. In het bestedingsprogramma zullen bovendien de tarieven en de flexibiliteit van het ticket beter zichtbaar zijn. Voor meer informatie gaat u naar klm.nl of airfrance.com"
Trying to keep it as bland and innocuous as possible, they refer to their websites for the many unmentioned but nasty stings in the tail.
Assuming your customers are stupid is usually a really bad idea!
Johan
Last edited by johan rebel; Jan 12, 09 at 1:04 pm.
Reason: can't spell right
Excuse me, but what language are they writing in?!?
Johan
Quote:
THE MORE THE TICKET CONDITIONS ARE FLEXIBLE OR MORE THE TRAVELING CLASSES ARE HIGHER, CLIENTS WILL GAIN MORE MILES.
Quote:
.
IT IS INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT THE ACCURAL OF MILES IN THE
ECONOMY CLASS REAMINS UNCHANGED. ON THE OTHER AVARD MILES IN THE
BUSINESS AND FIRST CLASS AND ALSO THE UPGRADE FETCHES MORE MILES THAN BEFORE.
![The new rule book is here! The new rule book is here! [merged]](/forum/iconimages/flying-blue-air-france-klm/new-rule-book-here-new-rule-book-here-merged_ltr.gif)
The full-fare eco fares ahould be getting 150% (as the prices are really not very different from ES - and you don't even get the better meals); the 'mild discount' would qualify for 75% and only the very lowest fares would get the measly 25%.
