CO is matching NW and DL Platinums to CO Platinum. Maybe they will do the same for AF-KL Platinums.
I think CO will status match all Elite levels. I know of a few people who got Silver Status Matches, although they were asking for a status match from outside of SkyTeam.
Programs: FB Gold (until Mar 2010), a status matched *A gold thanks to the lovely people at BMI.
Posts: 20
Apologies for the long post - I'm hoping fellow FT'ers will help me get this off my chest
Both my wife and I are long(ish) term Gold members, but now have no chance whatsoever of getting back there once this year's expires.
After a day of containing my annoyance, I sent this off to the KLM customer care people this morning:
"It is with considerable disgust, anger and disillusionment that we read of the changes to the Flying Blue programme from 1st April, most particularly in respect of the drastically reduced earnings on most economy fares.
Leaving aside the legalities of Flying Blue technically being a separate legal entity, the reality is that its finances are entirely dictated by the AF/KLM group and the Skyteam alliance. Actions taken by FB must therefore come with the knowledge and approval of the AF/KLM group.
In our view, in making these decisions the group has considerably damaged its relationship with its most loyal customers, those who have continued to support it through many years in spite of much cheaper fares being available elsewhere. Whilst taking some of that cost hit is down to convenience - the ability to use a local airport, in our case Norwich, instead of Heathrow or Gatwick - a more major factor is making what has become an increasingly difficult travel experience more bearable. The ability to use airport lounges (particularly on long layovers between flights), priority check-in counters and easy access to lounge personnel in the event of a problem all form part of that, but clearly it is necessary to maintain Gold for most this to continue.
In the days leading up to the announcement, we had been looking at our leisure flights for the year - we had planned flights to [multiple locations]. It is very likely that we would have taken some flights with relatives in order that they could also have the benefit of lounge access as our guests. On our flights, these would all have been in either T or Q class minimum, which would have returned both of us to Gold again. With the exception of the codeshare with xxx and internal North American flights, all of that would have been on KLM metal, and totalled about €6,000.
Now, of course, those same flights return a mere 50% of the miles (assuming NWA fare classes continue to match KLM's) which might not even take us to Silver status beyond the 2010 soft landing from Gold. This is such a downturn that it beggars belief, and we conclude that it will be virtually impossible for us to return to Gold in the future.
Moving on to accumulation of award miles, you claim: "With these Elite bonus, Flying Blue remains very competitive compared to other Majors (sic) airlines’ frequent flyer programmes."
However, the fact remains that these bonus miles are only attractive if a member can actually reach status in the first place, and they are further diminished by the cut in percentage for lower economy fares. So, for instance, a flight in T from Norwich, via Amsterdam, to Hong Kong would previously have produced a total of 22,795 miles (13,026 level plus 75% bonus). In future, the same fare paid will only return 11,397 in Gold. A frequent flyer programme giving no bonus but 100% on base fare would be more generous!
Having taken all this into account, aside from the potential to take a strategic flight to extend the validity of our miles, we have decided that we will transfer all our future business to an airline that actual values it by positioning its frequent flyer programme to truly reward loyalty - unless someone within the group can convince us otherwise, pretty much a herculean task. Before we do so, we will naturally want to burn-off as many of our 600k accumulated miles as quickly as possible, so that will mean we will convert the flights we would previously have paid for into Business Class flights to the same destinations. Aside from the tax and charges, KLM will therefore collect little or no revenue from us in this financial year or subsequently, and have to give us flights with a re-sale value of about €15,000.
In taking this action, we very much doubt that we will be alone, so the group's future revenue is likely to be irreparably damaged. At a time when the travel industry is trying to pull every last cent in, this hardly seems a sensible business plan.
I also note that your website continues to advertise what will be lower earning fare classes as 100%-eligible for flights after 1st April. I wonder what the legal consequence of this might be if a member relied on it when making a booking? In the same vein, is it really reasonable to impose such a dramatic change on elite and elite plus members with just 11 weeks' notice? For what now seems like the relatively small benefit reduction to a 20-month limit after last flight for Ivory members to redeem miles, you managed to give more notice! It strikes me that the manner in which the group has approached this has been ill-thought out and ill-executed, and these examples pretty much sum it up.
I finish with two thoughts: "As a frequent flyer programme, Flying Blue is committed to rewarding its active customers" and, to quote the spirit of the content of Herbert Verschuren's interview, "Flying Blue rewards our most loyal customers". On this basis, someone at the group obviously has a very strange sense of humour, but certainly not a modicum of business sense if long-term customers' revenue can be so easily lost; perhaps you could explain the joke, because it's completely lost on us. At the same time, perhaps you might like to give us some reasons why on earth we should continue to remain loyal to an airline that quite clearly does not want to keep its side of the bargain."
I'll post any reply KLM send me, but I'm not holding my breath. If anyone else fancies stealing any of my vitriol by cutting and pasting, feel free
Anyone have any idea on whether the new changes will have any impact on other ST airlines earning scheme into FB? Will all SU and CO still have an minimum 100% earning rate into FB?
Programs: AF/FB outta the door Plat, NW Plat, bmi DC Gold, BA EC Gold, HHonors Diamond, SPG Plat
Posts: 1,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by skrosvik
Anyone have any idea on whether the new changes will have any impact on other ST airlines earning scheme into FB? Will all SU and CO still have an minimum 100% earning rate into FB?
It's still not totally clear although the site suggests between 25, 50 and 100% on all partners. If that is the case then FB becomes useless regardless of the airline you fly.
The problem with these changes is that those who are aware of this (flyertalkers & select others) will defect right away. Others who are not frequent flyers will see less than 100% mileage and decide FB is useless and will fly other airlines in the future.
In light of this economy FB are shooting themselves in their feet and it may well hurt them in the very long run.
Speaking for myself, I already have 40000EQM this year (all in first class), yet the new changes to the economy class earning make me very reluctant to purchase any premium fares in the future with AF/KL and other skyteam airlines. The risk for AF/KL is that others like me will just fly BA exclusively and give up on FB and never come back regardless of whether the program gets better again or AF/KL improve their currently poor onboard service.
There's very little left that differentiates AF/KL from the scrum of easyjet (who are more flexible for rearranging dates and other things). FB was one of those things and I'm afraid instead of paying extra money for AF/KL I will just go for the cheapest option from now on. A pity for AF and KL.
The problem with these changes is that those who are aware of this (flyertalkers & select others) will defect right away. Others who are not frequent flyers will see less than 100% mileage and decide FB is useless and will fly other airlines in the future.
In light of this economy FB are shooting themselves in their feet and it may well hurt them in the very long run.
The risk for AF/KL is that others like me will just fly BA exclusively and give up on FB and never come back regardless of whether the program gets better again or AF/KL improve their currently poor onboard service.
I suggest everyone -- particularly those of us who live in Western Europe and NL and France in particular -- act as negative ambassadors and spread the word as far as possible and as quickly as possible that FB and AFKL should be abandoned so that the group feels more pain more quickly and more deeply.
For example,
- tell as many colleagues, family, friends and acquaintances as you can how AFKL has lost their way and no longer deserves our business, tell them your real horror stories (which we all have) from the last couple of years and explain how your flying has improved after moving to ...;
- remove flying rights on AFKL for members of your company, subsidiary or division;
- write an opinion piece for your local newspaper or financial/business publication holding up FB, AFKL as an example of a company that has lost its way, demonstrating pitifully what not to do to their best customers in a business turndown and encouraging people to fly their competition;
- send complaint letters to the competition authorities holding up the decline in product and service quality, reneging of promises and abuse of market power as reasons for their competitive behavior to be investigated
- send complaint letters to the consumer and advertising authorities complaining about their bait and switch marketing techniques on miles earning which are retroactively not honored by new program terms;
- type reviews on airlinequality announcing the coming consumer-unfriendly changes which combined with abominable decreases in product and service quality and uncompetitive prices make AFKL no longer even a two star option
- step into at least two local travel agencies to investigate vacations. make sure you discuss with at least two staff your displeasure with FB and how AFKL have lost their way. Tell them how many years you have been loyal, how you see them abandoning you and warn them that if they book people FBers on AFKL that they will likely have to deal with some very disappointed people this next year who will learn they have been screwed on miles -- encourage them to warn people in advance and to consider better options to AFKL;
It's still not totally clear although the site suggests between 25, 50 and 100% on all partners. If that is the case then FB becomes useless regardless of the airline you fly.
I think that skrosvik's question was the other way around: how much will you get on other Skyteam FFPs when flying AF or KL. We don't know at this stage but my guess would be that earnings will probably be diminished as AF/KL will presumably pay its partners less. We will have to wait and see if it happens and, if so, to what extent.
I suggest everyone -- particularly those of us who live in Western Europe and NL and France in particular -- act as negative ambassadors and spread the word as far as possible and as quickly as possible that FB and AFKL should be abandoned so that the group feels more pain more quickly and more deeply.
For example,
- tell as many colleagues, family, friends and acquaintances as you can how AFKL has lost their way and no longer deserves our business, tell them your real horror stories (which we all have) from the last couple of years and explain how your flying has improved after moving to ...;
- remove flying rights on AFKL for members of your company, subsidiary or division;
- write an opinion piece for your local newspaper or financial/business publication holding up FB, AFKL as an example of a company that has lost its way, demonstrating pitifully what not to do to their best customers in a business turndown and encouraging people to fly their competition;
- send complaint letters to the competition authorities holding up the decline in product and service quality, reneging of promises and abuse of market power as reasons for their competitive behavior to be investigated
- send complaint letters to the consumer and advertising authorities complaining about their bait and switch marketing techniques on miles earning which are retroactively not honored by new program terms;
- type reviews on airlinequality announcing the coming consumer-unfriendly changes which combined with abominable decreases in product and service quality and uncompetitive prices make AFKL no longer even a two star option
- step into at least two local travel agencies to investigate vacations. make sure you discuss with at least two staff your displeasure with FB and how AFKL have lost their way. Tell them how many years you have been loyal, how you see them abandoning you and warn them that if they book people FBers on AFKL that they will likely have to deal with some very disappointed people this next year who will learn they have been screwed on miles -- encourage them to warn people in advance and to consider better options to AFKL;
Great suggestions.
Customer-to-customer marketing is a good and very easy suggestion to follow through on -- especially if using AF-KL facilities to convey the matter.
__________________
This game is not as much fun as it used to be: 2008/2009 Frequent Flyer Program Fleecing Award goes to Delta Airlines
I think that skrosvik's question was the other way around: how much will you get on other Skyteam FFPs when flying AF or KL. We don't know at this stage but my guess would be that earnings will probably be diminished as AF/KL will presumably pay its partners less. We will have to wait and see if it happens and, if so, to what extent.
It's going to filter through to DL-NW -- as the collusion allowed to AF-KL-DL-NW just helps the "harmonization" along faster and more extensively -- making it a matter more of timing than "if" as long as AF-KL can manage to stick with this.
__________________
This game is not as much fun as it used to be: 2008/2009 Frequent Flyer Program Fleecing Award goes to Delta Airlines
I think that skrosvik's question was the other way around: how much will you get on other Skyteam FFPs when flying AF or KL. We don't know at this stage but my guess would be that earnings will probably be diminished as AF/KL will presumably pay its partners less. We will have to wait and see if it happens and, if so, to what extent.
No, I think his question was about earnings into FB [when flying ST partners]. At least that's the way I read it. In any case, judging from the [not-so-clear] info on the FB website, the 25-50-75% will affect all airlines.
__________________
PNC aux portes; armement des toboggans; vérification de la porte opposée.
Customer-to-customer marketing is a good and very easy suggestion to follow through on -- especially if using AF-KL facilities to convey the matter.
Why not using bluenity? AFKL was very happy to promote this tool, let's use it, network with fellow travellers and discuss about the new FB if it goes this way, we will soon read "AFKL is sorry to announce the temporary suspension of the Bluenity services due to technical difficulties. We are working on getting it up again as soon as possible"...
No, I think his question was about earnings into FB [when flying ST partners]. At least that's the way I read it. In any case, judging from the [not-so-clear] info on the FB website, the 25-50-75% will affect all airlines.
You are right. My apologies to GVA who clearly has a much better reading ability than me.
It's totally possible for the quality drop to spread to other programs, especially DL/NW. But I don't think the rules of the alliance can be changed with so little advance notice: contrary to the contract with us unimportant customers, contracts between airlines can't certainly be changed unilaterally. So, for some time, AF won't be able to reduce the price paid to other airlines/FFP when they bring them customers.
Switching to Star Alliance seems to be the sensible way for my premium flights (equally generous with regard to COS bonus), but I'll certainly switch to another Skyteam program for my domestic flights. And drop the cobranded Amex... Standard Amex yield me 1 ba mile per euro spent. Which means that I get a free TATL J ticket every 100 kE spent, and an F ticket every 150 kE. Using the cobranded AF/KLM, I'll also get 1 mile per euro spent, but that makes the TATL J award for spending 200 kE, and the F award at 300 kE. What's the point of using a cobranded card if it yield half the award, both in J and F per euro spent?
![The new rule book is here! The new rule book is here! [merged]](/forum/iconimages/flying-blue-air-france-klm/new-rule-book-here-new-rule-book-here-merged_ltr.gif)
