This week I need to be in Toulouse, from AMS via CDG. I booked a business class ticket. Confirmation mail shows AMS-CDG as Z and CDG-TLS as J. Also 'my trip' shows this last leg as business class. However, during OLCI, this shows as Y. Also the boarding pass shows as Y. Just had the flight, this is an all economy class flight. Am I being tricked here? Tomorrow I have the return leg back...
What do you mean the whole flight was Y? The A320 or A319's on the CDG-TLS run are standard AF short-haul birds with Business, Premium Economy and Economy. What row did you sit in? European Business on AF or KL is the same product, so why was your AMS-CDG ok but not your CDG-TLS?.
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Hey,
i've never seen any domestic flight with Air France, with something else than just economy on all rows of all the 318/319/320/321 used domestically in France.
They even replaced the seats with the "new" ones which don't even recline anymore but are 60% lighter, hence saves kerosen...
What do you mean the whole flight was Y? The A320 or A319's on the CDG-TLS run are standard AF short-haul birds with Business, Premium Economy and Economy. What row did you sit in? European Business on AF or KL is the same product, so why was your AMS-CDG ok but not your CDG-TLS?.
There was no business section. I was seated in row 1 with the middle seat occupied.
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On which leg - the CDG-TLS one only, right?
It's been a while since I took a domestic AF flight, but aren't they all single-class configs now?
If you book a CDG-TLS-CDG ticket from Air France, you can't buy a "business" ticket. Your only options are "Economy (lowest fare)" and "Economy (Changes Allowed Free Of Charge)". Given that you have an itinerary for which you have business-class tickets (sectors between Paris and Amsterdam), I expect that you will receive the miles for J class on your CDG-TLS legs, as per the booking class, but that you are actually/effectively travelling in the highest available class on those internal flights - namely economy.
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Note that "J" on domestic Air France flights is a Premium Economy fare, and earns 200%. And note that the "premium" in the name doesn't refer to any on-board differentation, as such - though I would be surprised if you were not automatically seated at the (very) front of the plane - it's more a recognition of the type of ticket you hold. Even if you had arrived in Paris in long haul in La Première, you'd still have ended up in Premium Economy fare (A, J, S or W) on your shuttle to Toulouse. There is no business class, per se, on domestic services.
And before you complain about being sold a "business class" ticket for an entire itinerary for which business class was only available for part - this is known, and factored into the price. If you are still unsatisfied, remember that the alternative would mean Air France not being able to sell you a business class ticket for your journey, instead forcing you to take Economy on all sectors, or to travel on separate tickets.
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2013: AMS BKK DUB FRA HAM HKG LHR MEL ORK RTM SYD TXL VCE VIE
It's been a while since I took a domestic AF flight, but aren't they all single-class configs now?
If you book a CDG-TLS-CDG ticket from Air France, you can't buy a "business" ticket. Your only options are "Economy (lowest fare)" and "Economy (Changes Allowed Free Of Charge)". Given that you have an itinerary for which you have business-class tickets (sectors between Paris and Amsterdam), I expect that you will receive the miles for J class on your CDG-TLS legs, as per the booking class, but that you are actually/effectively travelling in the highest available class on those internal flights - namely economy.
Yes it's on the CDG-TLS leg.
Any suggestions how to approach KLM on this?
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It's been years (probably around 2004-2005) that the business class cabin has been discontinued on Air France domestic flights from CDG. So no downgrade is involved here.
There is no reason to approach anyone. You received the service you paid for.
Well, not really. As stated before, this is what 'my trip' says:
- Travel class: business class
- Seating: business class
- Meal: meal
I really cannot see how this is a service I paid for when I do not get any of the above. In the end it is no problem to travel in Y, but then they should give me the option during booking and not pretend it is C when it is not, apart from paying €1100,- for a rt. flight.
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Indeed, though on domestic services the "business class seating" just means that you will be somewhere towards the front, but in the same type seat as everyone else, and possibly also with a seat mate.
Your travel class is J, which strictly speaking is defined as "Premium Economy", but with a 200% earning rate, which apart from La Première and Business Class Europe, is Air France's most generous earning rate, and is the class that a larger "Business Class" ticket will map into, when domestic sectors are involved.
I know you must be frustrated that you didn't get any of the "frills" associated with business class on your very short CDG-TLS sector, but that's the nature of the travel. There's not much they could do anyway, other than put a different coloured headrest on your seat, block the seat beside you, and perhaps give you a fancier snack.
If you still wish to complain, then whatever any of us says will likely not change your mind. However, despite your disappointment, you did effectively get the "virtual" business class experience on your flight (increased miles, seat at front), and in many ways, short-haul business exists only in a "virtual" sense these days, given that the real benefits (the ability to change tickets at a reduced/no fee and/or at short notice, the extra miles awarded, lounge access, increased luggage allowance) are not always tangible. Perhaps in future you will prefer to travel in Economy if you feel that the "extras" are not worth paying the premium for (and my guess is that most people don't think they are worth paying for, if the cost is coming from their own, rather than their employer's, pocket!).
If you do complain, though, please return and let us know the outcome.
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2013: AMS BKK DUB FRA HAM HKG LHR MEL ORK RTM SYD TXL VCE VIE
Last edited by irishguy28; Nov 30, 12 at 2:17 am..
Indeed, though on domestic services the "business class seating" means that you will be somewhere towards the front, but in the same seat as everyone else, and possibly also with a seat mate.
Your travel class is J, which strictly speaking is defined as "Premium Economy", but with a 200% earning rate, which apart from La Première and Business Class Europe, is Air France's most generous earning rate.
I know you must be frustrated that you didn't get any of the "frills" associated with business class on your very short CDG-TLS sector, but that's the nature of the travel. There's not much they could do anyway, other than put a different coloured headrest on your seat, block the seat beside you, and perhaps give you a fancier snack.
If you still wish to complain, then whatever any of us says will likely not change your mind. However, despite your disappointment, you did effectively get the "virtual" business class experience on your flight (increased miles, seat at front), and in many ways, short-haul business exists only in a "virtual" sense these days, given that the real benefits (the ability to change tickets at a reduced/no fee and/or at short notice, the extra miles awarded, lounge access, increased luggage allowance) are not always tangible. Perhaps in future you will prefer to travel in Economy if you feel that the "extras" are not worth paying the premium for (and my guess is that most people don't think they are worth paying for, if the cost is coming from their own, rather than their employer's, pocket!).
If you do complain, though, please return and let us know the outcome.
Thanks for the extensive response, this makes some sense. Basically what is most important for me is the open middle seat, which gives you some room to work. That was for me the 'driver' to book C class.
I sometimes connect in Oslo onto a SAS Norwegian internal flight. The ticket is usually booked as C, although the flight itself is single class. Tend to get put near the front of the plane tho, but that's about all. Don't even get air miles on internal Norwegian flights!
Going back to the OP. Would (s)he get access to the lounge? You'd expect so if it's a C class ticket, but if the BP says Y they the lounge dragon may say 'Non'
Business class has not been offered by AF on domestic flights for many, many years. These flights are mono-cabin, mono-service. So, you get seated in the highest available class (Y) and get the additional service available to J pax (FB miles, number of bags). Unfortunately CDG-TLS is longer than AMS-CDG, so you get ebtter seating/service only on the short legs of your itin. You should have taken the nonstop AMS-TLS.
Apparently, several posters are not aware of this and IMO AF website is faulty in not indicating this when you book. It basically states that you travel "business" from CDG to TLS (I checked). One of my Chinese colleague was also angry when flying from HKG to NCE. Websites of other airlines are more informative. For example, if you book a CDG-EDI on BA, the BA website clearly indicates that you fly in "Domestic" class on the LHR-EDI segment. Hopefully AF will improve its website.
Book and pay in C, fly in Y
