[confirmed] Changes to Air France/KLM co-branded American Express cards [France]
Jun 21, 2011, 5:53 am
#196
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: FR
Programs: LH Sen, HH Gold
Posts: 182
Last experience was last january. It wasn't that bad but the amount of paperwork that they require is just ridiculous and mind boggling.
I must admit that I have at least on one occasion in the past decided not to claim reimbursement as the paperwork acted as a deterrent!
They certainly never proposed to wire me the money upfront!
I must admit that I have at least on one occasion in the past decided not to claim reimbursement as the paperwork acted as a deterrent!
They certainly never proposed to wire me the money upfront!
Jun 21, 2011, 5:53 am
#197
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,921
It's true, but the service is not so different than when I had Amex gold, so lets compare a few experiences i had with Amex Gold and Visa Premier.
Payment :
Visa Premier : One day, I tried to make a payment over 4000 EUR with my Visa Premier in Finland. Seller's terminal was showing "Call credit card company", so the seller asked me to call my CC company.
I called the number on the back of my Visa and got some aggressive woman with a barely understandable accent on the phone screaming at me that it's not me who has to call them but the seller (How am I supposed to know this ?) and that anyway, she cannot do anything for me because she has to call my bank and as we are Saturday, I will have to wait until Tuesday.
My spending limit on the card is supposed to be 10K per month and i never got any payment incident, I had much more than this amount on my bank account, so why this behavior ?
AmEx : Once in a shop, my Amex got declined. Straight away after, my cellphone ringed. It was an Amex CSR asking me if it's really me who is using my card right now. I answered yes and he said that he is so sorry for the declined transaction and that it won't happen again.
Insurance :
Visa Premier : 6 month ago, I had a delayed baggage for a travel paid with my Visa. I'm still waiting for the insurance money ... (And when I called the insurance service, they first refused to open the case because I don't have a french cellphone number ...)
Amex : For small incident, like baggage or flight delayed, they always send you the insurance money on your card-account after your first call, and then, you have 1 month to send all the documents they are asking for (If you don't, they will take the money back).
All those experiences happend when I was Amex Gold, not Plat and the Amex Gold cost the same price than a Visa Premier.
And I'm not comparing some concierge or any incentives, just the basic features of the cards : Payment and Insurance.
So, "Je persiste et signe", Amex offers a much better service than Visa in France for the same price. Therefore, I agree with you than Amex AF/KLM Plat doesn't worth the money, especially if they remove status-miles
EDIT : Also, the phone number to call my Visa Premier service is an over-taxed number starting with 0825. For Amex it's just a normal french landline number.
Payment :
Visa Premier : One day, I tried to make a payment over 4000 EUR with my Visa Premier in Finland. Seller's terminal was showing "Call credit card company", so the seller asked me to call my CC company.
I called the number on the back of my Visa and got some aggressive woman with a barely understandable accent on the phone screaming at me that it's not me who has to call them but the seller (How am I supposed to know this ?) and that anyway, she cannot do anything for me because she has to call my bank and as we are Saturday, I will have to wait until Tuesday.
My spending limit on the card is supposed to be 10K per month and i never got any payment incident, I had much more than this amount on my bank account, so why this behavior ?
AmEx : Once in a shop, my Amex got declined. Straight away after, my cellphone ringed. It was an Amex CSR asking me if it's really me who is using my card right now. I answered yes and he said that he is so sorry for the declined transaction and that it won't happen again.
Insurance :
Visa Premier : 6 month ago, I had a delayed baggage for a travel paid with my Visa. I'm still waiting for the insurance money ... (And when I called the insurance service, they first refused to open the case because I don't have a french cellphone number ...)
Amex : For small incident, like baggage or flight delayed, they always send you the insurance money on your card-account after your first call, and then, you have 1 month to send all the documents they are asking for (If you don't, they will take the money back).
All those experiences happend when I was Amex Gold, not Plat and the Amex Gold cost the same price than a Visa Premier.
And I'm not comparing some concierge or any incentives, just the basic features of the cards : Payment and Insurance.
So, "Je persiste et signe", Amex offers a much better service than Visa in France for the same price. Therefore, I agree with you than Amex AF/KLM Plat doesn't worth the money, especially if they remove status-miles
EDIT : Also, the phone number to call my Visa Premier service is an over-taxed number starting with 0825. For Amex it's just a normal french landline number.
Jun 21, 2011, 6:12 am
#198
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339
FWIW Centurion USA never gives me problems with these types of issues. And almost zero paperwork. It's always "yes sir, we'll take care of it.". And now that Centurion USA has zero foreign exchange fees, I might just dump my Euro Amex cards due to this change.
Jun 21, 2011, 10:23 am
#199
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 🇸🇬 🇭🇰 🇫🇷
Programs: Many
Posts: 4,749
Main points :
- Silver card : 2 extra segments per year, 10 EUR = 8 award miles, 60 EUR a year
- Gold card : 4 extra segments per year, 10 EUR = 10 award miles, 140 EUR a year
- Platinum card : 8 extra segments par year, 10 EUR = 15 award miles, FB Platinum Elite holding an AF/Amex Platinum card can give FB Platinum status to one of their supplementary card holder, 570 EUR a year
All cards : FB miles pooling between main Amex card holder and supplementary card holders.
Also :
- All changes effective on 18th of November.
- Charts for AF/KL/Hertz are 10:10 (Silver), 10:15 (Gold), 10:20 (Platinum, plus Radisson Blue, minus Printemps and Sofitel)
Last edited by Gajan; Jun 21, 2011 at 12:26 pm Reason: Merge posts
Jun 21, 2011, 12:28 pm
#200
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Programs: Flying Blue (AF/KL)
Posts: 4,711
Jun 21, 2011, 1:03 pm
#201
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339
Jun 21, 2011, 1:47 pm
#202
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Helsinki
Programs: FB Plat - M&M FT - Amex AF/KL Plat
Posts: 20
So after removing the status miles, they increase the price of the card ?
Looks like a joke ...
"Platinum for two" is maybe the only real improvement, but as a Platinum, you are anyway allowed to bring guests in the lounges, i'm not sure than this is so useful for many of the holders.
"3 fois sans frais" for Air France ticket, why not, but again i assume than most of the people who afford a 570 EUR/year credit card don't need this.
"Share & Fly" looks like a strategy from AF / KLM to make me choosing them for my personal / holidays transport with my family to collect their miles. Nice try but I won't fall in the trap...
Definitely, I will change my card for a non-Af/klm Platinum amex. The two Priority Passes are much more valuable to me than those "advantages"
Therefore I wonder what's the difference between the "Conciergerie" service of the AF/KLM Amex and the "Service art de vivre" you get with the normal Amex Plat.
Does anybody know this ?
Looks like a joke ...
"Platinum for two" is maybe the only real improvement, but as a Platinum, you are anyway allowed to bring guests in the lounges, i'm not sure than this is so useful for many of the holders.
"3 fois sans frais" for Air France ticket, why not, but again i assume than most of the people who afford a 570 EUR/year credit card don't need this.
"Share & Fly" looks like a strategy from AF / KLM to make me choosing them for my personal / holidays transport with my family to collect their miles. Nice try but I won't fall in the trap...
Definitely, I will change my card for a non-Af/klm Platinum amex. The two Priority Passes are much more valuable to me than those "advantages"
Therefore I wonder what's the difference between the "Conciergerie" service of the AF/KLM Amex and the "Service art de vivre" you get with the normal Amex Plat.
Does anybody know this ?
Jun 21, 2011, 2:09 pm
#203
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Paris, FRANCE
Programs: HH Nobody, AF FB Platinum, SIXT Diamond, Hertz PC, Bonvoy Ambassador
Posts: 305
Do you think that the complementary FB Platinum status comped to the supplemtary card holder, will be a "cheap" Patinum status and recongnized as this in AF system?
Also, no mention of the 20000 miles offered for the first subscription of the AMEX FB PLAT?
Also, no mention of the 20000 miles offered for the first subscription of the AMEX FB PLAT?
Jun 21, 2011, 2:16 pm
#204
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Helsinki
Programs: FB Plat - M&M FT - Amex AF/KL Plat
Posts: 20
This website has been made for communication to actual holders of the cards not new customers, so I guess that's why there is no mention of this.
Jun 21, 2011, 2:17 pm
#205
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,555
Itis hard to understand how "hare and fly" works. Does it only applies to miles earned under AMEX?
What puzzles me very much is why AF makes it even easier to qualify on number of segments, while it made it more difficult to qualify on miles with April's fool and the removal of status miles for AMEX. Anyone can explain the logic (I am sure that there is one)?
What puzzles me very much is why AF makes it even easier to qualify on number of segments, while it made it more difficult to qualify on miles with April's fool and the removal of status miles for AMEX. Anyone can explain the logic (I am sure that there is one)?
Jun 21, 2011, 2:25 pm
#206
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: FB Plat for life
Posts: 730
now starts the tricky questions, will the complementary plat qualifies for the plat for life program?
I really find their communication confusing for the plat card where they really mix amex advantages and FB plat advantages. I think not as knowledgeable people as we can be around here can understand that Amex plat give automatically the FB Plat status
I really find their communication confusing for the plat card where they really mix amex advantages and FB plat advantages. I think not as knowledgeable people as we can be around here can understand that Amex plat give automatically the FB Plat status
Jun 21, 2011, 2:25 pm
#207
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: FR
Programs: LH Sen, HH Gold
Posts: 182
The website is now updated and all information is available.
Main points :
- Silver card : 2 extra segments per year, 10 EUR = 8 award miles, 60 EUR a year
- Gold card : 4 extra segments per year, 10 EUR = 10 award miles, 140 EUR a year
- Platinum card : 8 extra segments par year, 10 EUR = 15 award miles, FB Platinum Elite holding an AF/Amex Platinum card can give FB Platinum status to one of their supplementary card holder, 570 EUR a year
All cards : FB miles pooling between main Amex card holder and supplementary card holders.
Also :
- All changes effective on 18th of November.
- Charts for AF/KL/Hertz are 10:10 (Silver), 10:15 (Gold), 10:20 (Platinum, plus Radisson Blue, minus Printemps and Sofitel)
Main points :
- Silver card : 2 extra segments per year, 10 EUR = 8 award miles, 60 EUR a year
- Gold card : 4 extra segments per year, 10 EUR = 10 award miles, 140 EUR a year
- Platinum card : 8 extra segments par year, 10 EUR = 15 award miles, FB Platinum Elite holding an AF/Amex Platinum card can give FB Platinum status to one of their supplementary card holder, 570 EUR a year
All cards : FB miles pooling between main Amex card holder and supplementary card holders.
Also :
- All changes effective on 18th of November.
- Charts for AF/KL/Hertz are 10:10 (Silver), 10:15 (Gold), 10:20 (Platinum, plus Radisson Blue, minus Printemps and Sofitel)
So might be worthwhile to cancel in January 2012 instead.
Jun 21, 2011, 2:27 pm
#208
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Helsinki
Programs: FB Plat - M&M FT - Amex AF/KL Plat
Posts: 20
Itis hard to understand how "hare and fly" works. Does it only applies to miles earned under AMEX?
What puzzles me very much is why AF makes it even easier to qualify on number of segments, while it made it more difficult to qualify on miles with April's fool and the removal of status miles for AMEX. Anyone can explain the logic (I am sure that there is one)?
What puzzles me very much is why AF makes it even easier to qualify on number of segments, while it made it more difficult to qualify on miles with April's fool and the removal of status miles for AMEX. Anyone can explain the logic (I am sure that there is one)?
When you want, you call FB customer service and they will transfer the miles from your partner FB account to your FB account.
The miles earned by your partner by the expenses on his/her Amex partner card are already going to YOUR FB account (Because the expenses are going to your amex account too). That doesn't change.
For example for now, if your partner or your child has 20.000 miles and you have 20.000 miles, you cannot buy a 40.000 miles ticket.
With share and fly, you will transfer the 20.000 miles to your account, so you have 40.000 miles totally and you can book this award ticket, for yourself or your partner/child
Yes bu those segments will only by valid until 31 december 2011, so it's only worth to wait if you need those segments to achieve a status
Jun 21, 2011, 3:16 pm
#209
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,921
Jun 21, 2011, 9:27 pm
#210
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea
Programs: Flying Blue, Mileage Plus
Posts: 65
Share and fly: mile transfer done by FB customer support reps?
So that would mean that the FB customer service knows whether an FB member has an Amex card (btw, Share and Fly is a benefit of all 3 Amex cards, Silver Gold and Platinum) and is entitled to Share and Fly, or is just a "regular" FB member non-entitled to Share and Fly?