OH-LGG

Just noticed that AAdvantage is moving in 2016 to $-based earnings.
http://www.aa.com/i18n/AAdvantage/pr...antage2016.jsp
So status and miles/points will based on used amount of USD.

Any Thoughts when AY will be updating AY Plus and flown distance will be history?

Steve_Hun

Based on this post, it looks like by now this method is becoming the de facto standard in the States. I really hope that this will stay one of those features that will stay in the States...

Any of you know about a ff program outside of North America using similar method?

Courmisch

Finnair already dropped flown distance earnings in favor of zone-based earnings with the switch to ticket types - that seems popular with European legacy airlines. I don't really see why switch to spending-based earnings.

Of course, they might devaluate award points, and/or ditch the Value type to enhance the program.

Regarding partner and codeshare flights, I guess alliance agreements would need to change.

Courmisch

You don't need to go look very far: DY is doing more or less that.

Courmisch

I wonder if the earnings for AA codes on AY+ will be cut back again. Looking at the table for AY codes on AAdvantage gives conflicting signals.

delerium

Very bad news for people on AA. Just renewed my AA PLT but might as well come back to AY since the benefits are gone really. It seems to be a race to the bottom for all FFP's.

intuition

(my bolding) Really? I read that as the award points will be spend based, but the tier system will still be based on miles flown with a very "normal" ticket type multiplier. What did I miss?


And anyway, I really can't see tier system getting spend based. On a year with lower fuel prices (and presumably lower ticket prices) suddenly a lot of frequent flyers fail to meet their requal. And when prices raise, suddenly a lot of not-very-frequent flyers qualify.

And with AY's current spread in earning (25-100% in econ) they already have the tool to give fewer points to cheaper tickets. In fact, a campaign ticket is rarely priced as low as 25% of a value ticket, so a spen-based system would mean more points for the cheapest ticket.

intuition

DY's prgram is very different. You earn credits which can be used as part-payment for flights. You can apply the credits to next flight, so there is no long term loyalty in that.

And there is no status system.

intuition

... and you'll get 1% CashPoints when buying a Finnair ticket with their CC. They run their "loyalty" card similar to a voucher-back credit card.

kauppias

AA just got Gutted especially on partner earnings in economy...

I am still evaluating options but looks like flying on AY has ended for me as the ONLY reason I flew with them was AA earnings I will renew for 2017 mostly on current bookings but 2018 might be a travel light year or I will just travel on the CX and TK deals and use priority pass and use my Bose while waiting in lines �� Since I wont have priority anymore ������. Things are changing for the y traveller,

WilcoRoger

Try for a status match with TK. I got one earlier this year until 3/2017 and it was easy to renew, so I've *G until 3/2019 (!) I'm also set with OW for a while (OWE then OWS until 4/2018 even if I don't earn a mile/point)

BTW Emirates also runs a match this month, maybe of use

WilcoRoger

As for the original question - Air Lingus will launch a new FFP next year, that will use Avios and will be €€€ based. Test ground for BA?

intuition

OK, a quick analysis of this.

I previously said "no need to go to € earned, since there is good spread already with 25%-200% earnings". Well, I stand by this.
NA programs may differ, because the 25% / 50% earnings are not the norm there. They need a new system to differentiate econ earnings.

There are some other effects to consider aswell.
Here are all normal fares and earnings for a "random" city-pair (CPH-HEL). The fare structure is similar on most shorthaul.

First, take a look on how many points a flyer earns with today's system, expressed in col H. If you buy a R-Value, you earn over 12 points per euro spent, pretty generous compared to most other fares. Worst is of course a full fare Y that earns 0,52 points/€, but let's keep to normal fares, and we see that a majority of fares earns 2-4 points/€.



OK, this seems pretty unfair. Pax paying from 200€ and up are severly punished. Let's change into a "spending-based" system! Everyone will earn points based on euros.
What multiplier should we use? I assume the airline wouldn't want to give more points to flyers in general, so we need to find a multiplier that does that. 2,5 points/€ is a good guess.

Check column J for new earnings expressed in points and check column K for changes in %.

Great! That pesky R-VA got slashed to barely 200 points, a change of -80%. All the normal business class fares stays pretty much the same, and if someone ever buys those CIF or YIF fares at 2000 €, then why not increase their earnings by 141-383%.

So, while most econ fares get slashed, it is not much different from moving them from Basic (50% - 500p) and into Campaign (25% - 250p).

The fares between 67€-116€ are close to 250 point, ie 25% earnings in todays system.
The fares between 163€-256€ are the 50% group, and so on.

So introducing a spending based earning does nothing in terms of differentiate earnings - you have pretty much the same span of earnings in the type-based, even though some fares ought to be moved to another type.

The only thing achieved with a spending based system is that you improve granularity. You can have fares that earns 750 points, there you previously had to put it either in 500p or 1000p.

But you will also achieve confusion and you will make the program less engaging. Does any corporate flyer really know what their ticket cost? Will they ask their TA: "Please book me on a fare that costs at least 402€"? No.
Instead, you won't really know what you will earn and then why even bother with earnings? The driving force is the easy math.

Unless there is radical change in fare structure and there is a radical change in flyers looking for lowest fare I can't see what good a spending based system would do for AY.

ORD Finn

Considering how much we HEL-based flyers have to drop for LH J tix, a €-based system would only be fair

Courmisch

REMOVE THAT CHART before they find it and kill my dear value fare!!!

Seriously though, I agree that switching to earning base does not make much sense as compared to the current system.

Finnair must know very well that semi-flexible economy earns more per euros - but then again, the difference between Basic or Light+bag and Value tickets is almost pure profits for Finnair. And the price has been going up, hasn't it?

As far as I can tell, AirBerlin, Cathay and Qantas have similar economy price structures too.