Nov 4, 2015, 9:05 am
Last edit by: OH-LGG
Finnair (AY) company website dedicated for A350 fleet can be found HERE
!!
bold= new cabin
!!
A350 Deliveries
OH-LWA (msn 18) delivered 7th Oct 2015 is the first Finnair A350 and started long-haul operations as AY57 to PVG on 21st Nov 2015.
OH-LWB (msn 19) was delivered 14th Dec 2015, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 19th Dec 2015.
OH-LWC (msn 20) was delivered 31st Dec 2015, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 3rd Jan 2016.
OH-LWD (msn 22) was delivered 25th Mar 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 28th Mar 2016.
OH-LWE (msn 23) was delivered 29th Apr 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 1st May 2016
OH-LWF (msn 28) was delivered 25th Jun 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 27th Jun 2016
OH-LWG (msn 51) was delivered 29th Sep 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 30th Sep 2016
OH-LWH (msn 97) was delivered 04th Apr 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 5th Apr 2017
OH-LWI (msn 104) was delivered 02nd Jun 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 5th Jun 2017
OH-LWK (msn 113) was delivered 30th Jun 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 3rd Jul 2017
OH-LWL (msn 134) was delivered on 22th Sep 2017, started as AY 831 to LHR on 27th Sep 2017 and started longhauls on 29th Sep 2017 as AY89 to BKK.
OH-LWM (msn 264) was delivered on 13th Dec 2018, started long-haul operations as AY73 to NRT on 19th Dec 2018
OH-LWN (msn 273) was delivered on 13th Feb 2019, started long-haul operations as AY73 to NRT on 16th Feb 2019
OH-LWO (msn 300) was delivered on 26th Apr 2019, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 29th Apr 2019
OH-LWP (msn 392) was delivered on 10th Feb 2020, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 13th Feb 2020
OH-LWR (msn 410) was delivered on 1st Sep 2020, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 8th Sep 2020
OH-LWS (msn 516) was delivered on 29th Dec 2021, started long haul operations as AY87 to PVG (cargo only) on 24th Jan 2022, first pax service on 28th Feb 2022 as AY9
Seating
2 different configurations exists.
J/46 Y/251: Features 2 J cabins. First 8 birds and 12th(LWA-LWH, LWM) has this config
J/32 Y/304: The minicabin is removed and replaced with Y seating. Babycots in 1L and 41L. Birds 9-11, 13, 15 (LWI-LWL, LWN, LWP) has this config, a.k.a. marsuhäkki config.
Complete seatmap and layout of config 1 can be found HERE and config 2 is here.
Business Class features Zodiac Cirrus III full-flat bed seats in a 1-2-1 abreast config, all seats with direct access to the aisle. Config1 has two business class cabins, row1-8 and 9-12, while config2 only has one (row 1-8). Early reviews has preferred front cabin over minicabin, and for best window seat, row 2 or 1 may be preferable, row 1 for aisle seats.
As operations of A350 has matured, it has become practice to set the snack-bar on top of the cupboard in front of row 1, making row 1 experience a lot of foot traffic and noise.
Config2 also suffers from low toilet/pax quota (2 toilets / 32 pax) as the aft toilets has been assigned to the high density Y cabin, further contributing to high foot traffic in the front of the cabin. For these reasons, a seat further to the back may be preferable. However, all service start in the front and it will usually take a long time to get your meal in row 8.
For couples travelling together there is no clear choice. DH-seats are tilted towards each-other, but you still will not see the other person without leaning forwards. Seat across aisles (AD and HL respectively) has no barriers between them, but are tilted the wrong way and rows are also slightly misaligned.
Economy Comfort on A350 has the exact same seats as in economy, but with ≈4" inches more legroom. They also come with noise cancelling headphones, 1h internet, priority boarding and a small amenity kit.
Finnair platinums and OWE members can select these seats for free. (OWE must call to do so). Other passengers can select comfort seats for a fee, and seats are also sold after boarding.
On config1 comfort is row 21-25, while on config 2 comfort is row 21-24 + 25ABC and 25JKL. Row 21 is bulkhead and has slightly more space, as no seat reclines into the space. None of the configs has that super-space found on some retrofitted A330 though.
On config1 21AC and 21JL are the only paired seats making them preferable, but if you want to have IFE screen in the seat in front of you, pick row 22. On config2 all seats are in groups of 3, and it is also recommended to stay away from row 21 entirely, as it is entangled with the toilets.
In terms of space there are no seats in comfort cabin on either config that beats exit row 41A/C/J/L or 42A/L.
Economy Class features 3-3-3 abreast slimline seating with 32" pitch. The best seats are row 41 with most legroom on A/C/J/L (but they lack window), and row 42 A/L.
These are either labled "extra legroom" or "exit row" and are selectable with status or for a fee.
Economy cabin offers USB for charge - no AC outlets.
In-Flight Entertainment
IFE system is upgraded. Bigger screens, wider selection of movies and music, route mapper and control options. You can watch a movie from start to landing. You will have Bose noise-cancelling earphones in business class and in Economy comfort, and earplugs in economy class.
Wifi: you will see a code (in business class) in the screen when you open the IFE and select language. In economy class, you need to ask cabin crew for a voucher code if you are OWS/OWE, otherwise it costs you 7,95€ per hour, 11,95€ per three hours or 19,95€ for the whole flight. It may take some time until up in the air to get it started. Log in is required, once you have created an account and password, the system will recognize you next time.
Quality issues and early refurbishment
The seats in business class have had many quality issues from day one. Apart from some inherent problems with the seat design, there are also malfunctions and abnormal wear.
As every row has slightly different pitch, fittings and trimmings have had to de adopted manually. Apart from causing delays in delivery, this also has led to many things in the cabin tend to come loose, to squeak and to break.
In june 2017 it was announced that Airbus has accepted responsibility for the quality issues and will replace every seat on every plane delivered until that point in time (9 birds).
The refurbish will take place during the first round of major maintenance round, scheduled to start later this year.
There is no information if there will be any changes made at the same time (addressing complaints about cramped seats and missing stowage space for example), but most likely this is treated as a warranty action and so cabin will be equipped with the exact same seats and layout, albeit with a newer batch of seats.
More details and discussion:
FAM (Familiarization) flights were ongoing within European destinations until the first A350 aircraft was put on regular long-haul service on 21st November 2015. Here is a list of FAM flights quoted by a FT'er.
The "famous" introduction list with initial experiences can be found in THIS thread
Discussion about the first long-haul services and experiences can be found in another THREAD
Links to many trip reports can be found in https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/finn...ion-links.html.
!!
bold= new cabin
!!
A350 Deliveries
OH-LWA (msn 18) delivered 7th Oct 2015 is the first Finnair A350 and started long-haul operations as AY57 to PVG on 21st Nov 2015.
OH-LWB (msn 19) was delivered 14th Dec 2015, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 19th Dec 2015.
OH-LWC (msn 20) was delivered 31st Dec 2015, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 3rd Jan 2016.
OH-LWD (msn 22) was delivered 25th Mar 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 28th Mar 2016.
OH-LWE (msn 23) was delivered 29th Apr 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 1st May 2016
OH-LWF (msn 28) was delivered 25th Jun 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 27th Jun 2016
OH-LWG (msn 51) was delivered 29th Sep 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 30th Sep 2016
OH-LWH (msn 97) was delivered 04th Apr 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 5th Apr 2017
OH-LWI (msn 104) was delivered 02nd Jun 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 5th Jun 2017
OH-LWK (msn 113) was delivered 30th Jun 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 3rd Jul 2017
OH-LWL (msn 134) was delivered on 22th Sep 2017, started as AY 831 to LHR on 27th Sep 2017 and started longhauls on 29th Sep 2017 as AY89 to BKK.
OH-LWM (msn 264) was delivered on 13th Dec 2018, started long-haul operations as AY73 to NRT on 19th Dec 2018
OH-LWN (msn 273) was delivered on 13th Feb 2019, started long-haul operations as AY73 to NRT on 16th Feb 2019
OH-LWO (msn 300) was delivered on 26th Apr 2019, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 29th Apr 2019
OH-LWP (msn 392) was delivered on 10th Feb 2020, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 13th Feb 2020
OH-LWR (msn 410) was delivered on 1st Sep 2020, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 8th Sep 2020
OH-LWS (msn 516) was delivered on 29th Dec 2021, started long haul operations as AY87 to PVG (cargo only) on 24th Jan 2022, first pax service on 28th Feb 2022 as AY9
Seating
2 different configurations exists.
J/46 Y/251: Features 2 J cabins. First 8 birds and 12th(LWA-LWH, LWM) has this config
J/32 Y/304: The minicabin is removed and replaced with Y seating. Babycots in 1L and 41L. Birds 9-11, 13, 15 (LWI-LWL, LWN, LWP) has this config, a.k.a. marsuhäkki config.
Complete seatmap and layout of config 1 can be found HERE and config 2 is here.
Business Class features Zodiac Cirrus III full-flat bed seats in a 1-2-1 abreast config, all seats with direct access to the aisle. Config1 has two business class cabins, row1-8 and 9-12, while config2 only has one (row 1-8). Early reviews has preferred front cabin over minicabin, and for best window seat, row 2 or 1 may be preferable, row 1 for aisle seats.
As operations of A350 has matured, it has become practice to set the snack-bar on top of the cupboard in front of row 1, making row 1 experience a lot of foot traffic and noise.
Config2 also suffers from low toilet/pax quota (2 toilets / 32 pax) as the aft toilets has been assigned to the high density Y cabin, further contributing to high foot traffic in the front of the cabin. For these reasons, a seat further to the back may be preferable. However, all service start in the front and it will usually take a long time to get your meal in row 8.
For couples travelling together there is no clear choice. DH-seats are tilted towards each-other, but you still will not see the other person without leaning forwards. Seat across aisles (AD and HL respectively) has no barriers between them, but are tilted the wrong way and rows are also slightly misaligned.
Economy Comfort on A350 has the exact same seats as in economy, but with ≈4" inches more legroom. They also come with noise cancelling headphones, 1h internet, priority boarding and a small amenity kit.
Finnair platinums and OWE members can select these seats for free. (OWE must call to do so). Other passengers can select comfort seats for a fee, and seats are also sold after boarding.
On config1 comfort is row 21-25, while on config 2 comfort is row 21-24 + 25ABC and 25JKL. Row 21 is bulkhead and has slightly more space, as no seat reclines into the space. None of the configs has that super-space found on some retrofitted A330 though.
On config1 21AC and 21JL are the only paired seats making them preferable, but if you want to have IFE screen in the seat in front of you, pick row 22. On config2 all seats are in groups of 3, and it is also recommended to stay away from row 21 entirely, as it is entangled with the toilets.
In terms of space there are no seats in comfort cabin on either config that beats exit row 41A/C/J/L or 42A/L.
Economy Class features 3-3-3 abreast slimline seating with 32" pitch. The best seats are row 41 with most legroom on A/C/J/L (but they lack window), and row 42 A/L.
These are either labled "extra legroom" or "exit row" and are selectable with status or for a fee.
Economy cabin offers USB for charge - no AC outlets.
In-Flight Entertainment
IFE system is upgraded. Bigger screens, wider selection of movies and music, route mapper and control options. You can watch a movie from start to landing. You will have Bose noise-cancelling earphones in business class and in Economy comfort, and earplugs in economy class.
Wifi: you will see a code (in business class) in the screen when you open the IFE and select language. In economy class, you need to ask cabin crew for a voucher code if you are OWS/OWE, otherwise it costs you 7,95€ per hour, 11,95€ per three hours or 19,95€ for the whole flight. It may take some time until up in the air to get it started. Log in is required, once you have created an account and password, the system will recognize you next time.
Quality issues and early refurbishment
The seats in business class have had many quality issues from day one. Apart from some inherent problems with the seat design, there are also malfunctions and abnormal wear.
As every row has slightly different pitch, fittings and trimmings have had to de adopted manually. Apart from causing delays in delivery, this also has led to many things in the cabin tend to come loose, to squeak and to break.
In june 2017 it was announced that Airbus has accepted responsibility for the quality issues and will replace every seat on every plane delivered until that point in time (9 birds).
The refurbish will take place during the first round of major maintenance round, scheduled to start later this year.
There is no information if there will be any changes made at the same time (addressing complaints about cramped seats and missing stowage space for example), but most likely this is treated as a warranty action and so cabin will be equipped with the exact same seats and layout, albeit with a newer batch of seats.
More details and discussion:
FAM (Familiarization) flights were ongoing within European destinations until the first A350 aircraft was put on regular long-haul service on 21st November 2015. Here is a list of FAM flights quoted by a FT'er.
The "famous" introduction list with initial experiences can be found in THIS thread
Discussion about the first long-haul services and experiences can be found in another THREAD
Links to many trip reports can be found in https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/finn...ion-links.html.
Finnair A350 XWB master thread
Mar 9, 2017, 1:56 pm
#887
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Finland
Programs: BA Gold, LH Senator, SPG Gold
Posts: 352
http://www.etihad.com/Documents/Seat...d-A380-800.jpg
The apartment is L-shaped, in addition to the seat you have a "sofa" that is about twice the size of the seating area in the seat. Having a meal is very comfortable and it's nice to hang on the sofa. When the sofa is turned into bed, it will be wider.
Etihad's Apartment is by far the best the ordinary airlines can offer but Qsuites definitely look very promising for C-travel. One doesn't get to Etihad F too often :-)
Mar 9, 2017, 2:39 pm
#888
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,166
OK, I now understand where the "2-abreast" comes from. Still not sure what to call it. Maybe 4-abreast in a yin/yang config.
"2-abreast" in my ears sounds like there are only two seats across, both with full width along the full length, ie an rectangular shape. There are clearly 4 seats across here, but at the "foot end" the suite widens, ie a triangular shape.
Admittedly very nice, but 2 abreast would have been nicer!
OK, end of OT for me
"2-abreast" in my ears sounds like there are only two seats across, both with full width along the full length, ie an rectangular shape. There are clearly 4 seats across here, but at the "foot end" the suite widens, ie a triangular shape.
Admittedly very nice, but 2 abreast would have been nicer!
OK, end of OT for me
Mar 21, 2017, 7:46 am
#889
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tallinn / Isle of Man
Programs: Finnair Platinum; Intercontinental Ambassador
Posts: 578
Quite unimpressed
I had purely by chance 2 flights in A350 J in the last couple of weeks. One from LHR to HEL and the other to HEL to BKK a couple of days later.
Whilst ... there is no reason to complain on European flight which probably is the best business class in short haul Europe, I can not see myself using Finnair in J on another long haul flight to Thailand at least.
I find the seat rather uncomfortable for a tall wide shouldered person. Also .. that grill on window seats.. near your legs is rather uncomfortable. Lack of storage is another thing that drives you bananas and not to mention the Finns that thought they are on a party flight. About half of the people did not sleep a minute on that flight.. just continued drinking through the night. A group of friends had a Karaoke sing along on the Tablet computer whilst another group of 4 elderly friends were hitting the Bordeaux like the region is about to stop wine producing forever. The cabin crew tried to calm things down, but not with much success. Managed to sleep probably 2.5 hours and got not too many tangible benefits of the bed due to discomfort in the foot area and the crowd on the plane. Whilst the lunch on European flight was quite lovely, I think the caterers on the BKK flight had a night to forget. Whilst I normally love the cuisine of Finnair J, that flight was forgettable.
I can't be all negative. On the subject of Alcohol - I just love the fact that they are using Napue Gin and Fever Tree tonic with dried cranberries for G&T... Just LOVELY!
The 330 is much more comfortable and was quite grateful to have it on the way back.
Whilst ... there is no reason to complain on European flight which probably is the best business class in short haul Europe, I can not see myself using Finnair in J on another long haul flight to Thailand at least.
I find the seat rather uncomfortable for a tall wide shouldered person. Also .. that grill on window seats.. near your legs is rather uncomfortable. Lack of storage is another thing that drives you bananas and not to mention the Finns that thought they are on a party flight. About half of the people did not sleep a minute on that flight.. just continued drinking through the night. A group of friends had a Karaoke sing along on the Tablet computer whilst another group of 4 elderly friends were hitting the Bordeaux like the region is about to stop wine producing forever. The cabin crew tried to calm things down, but not with much success. Managed to sleep probably 2.5 hours and got not too many tangible benefits of the bed due to discomfort in the foot area and the crowd on the plane. Whilst the lunch on European flight was quite lovely, I think the caterers on the BKK flight had a night to forget. Whilst I normally love the cuisine of Finnair J, that flight was forgettable.
I can't be all negative. On the subject of Alcohol - I just love the fact that they are using Napue Gin and Fever Tree tonic with dried cranberries for G&T... Just LOVELY!
The 330 is much more comfortable and was quite grateful to have it on the way back.
Mar 22, 2017, 12:17 pm
#890
Join Date: May 2014
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+Plat, ALL Plat, Scandic L2
Posts: 3,620
This year, I flew A359 four times, twice in J to Asia, twice in Y+ back to Europe. The second J fligth was to BKK, and I had no problem with other passengers even though the J cabin was crowded. I still could not sleep because I'd forgotten my melatonin. It was in the first J flight, to PVG, that I could not sleep because of noisy Scandinavian bisnetic men using the cabin as their meeting room.
With that said, I don't think inconveniences generated by other passengers are particularly better or worse on A359 than A333.
I am still of the opinion that, if you want to be rested at destination, you should simply fly economy one day earlier. It's safer, more efficient and more economical.
With that said, I don't think inconveniences generated by other passengers are particularly better or worse on A359 than A333.
I am still of the opinion that, if you want to be rested at destination, you should simply fly economy one day earlier. It's safer, more efficient and more economical.
Mar 24, 2017, 6:10 pm
#892
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum, TK Elite, BT VIP, AA, BA, SK, DL, NT, WB + hotels
Posts: 8,735
There are two upstairs crew rest areas on at least some A350. What about AY? Do they have these "loft bunks" for crew?
If so, does this also mean that some overhead bins are missing, like in the pics from the QR A350 shown here: https://www.ausbt.com.au/the-airbus-...bin-crew-sleep
I wonder what the rest of this space above the cabin houses. Wouldn't it be possible to equip it with bunks for passengers, too?
If so, does this also mean that some overhead bins are missing, like in the pics from the QR A350 shown here: https://www.ausbt.com.au/the-airbus-...bin-crew-sleep
I wonder what the rest of this space above the cabin houses. Wouldn't it be possible to equip it with bunks for passengers, too?
Mar 25, 2017, 2:46 am
#893
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
Programs: lots of shiny metal cards
Posts: 14,104
But sometimes flying a day earlier is just not possible.
Mar 26, 2017, 3:24 am
#894
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: try to stay home
Programs: AY, M&M, BAEC ...and don t care of status anymore
Posts: 2,041
But the AY A350 is not a pleasant option at all. Window seats are too far away from the windows and no real options to talk to your partner.
Mar 31, 2017, 12:40 pm
#895
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Singapore, Warsaw, Surfers Paradise
Programs: KrisFlyer Gold>>>Silver>>>Blue, Finnair Silver, Royal Caribbean Diamond
Posts: 5,158
I've flown AY a lot in both Y and C but never on the A350 before. Yesterday was my first flight in Y on the new aircraft and I must say it hasn't left a good impression overall. Sure, accountants are laughing all the way to the bank thanks to fuel savings, but as a passenger I was left underwhelmed.
The seats were so uncomfortable even compared to the A340 or other carriers that it was a pain. Seriously, no more A350 (at least as AY is concerned) for me. Decor was as bland and lacking in colour as I have ever seen on any airline including budget carriers - it seriously looked like the cheapest plane in the sky, with the feel of an all-white hospital waiting room.
Not sure what the policy is on drinks as it seems to differ depending on destination, but the desperate effort to save literally pennies was evident too. Some people didn't want wine with their first meal which was served past 1:30am (I declined the entire meal at this time though this is just a personal preference)... but when they asked on the subsequent meal before landing which was around 2pm local time they were told "sorry, no more." Just water, juice, tea and coffee. First time I have ever flown between Europe and SIN and never got a drop of wine... sad.
All in all I like Finnair for the people and the airport and the great flight connection timings, but I feel that they didn't get the A350 right with the econ class and the cheap look overall which I never felt on the A340. And the way econ has slid to budget airline standards is simply astounding and something I would never have seen coming. Oh well, time to open my horizons once more and look at other options more closely.
The seats were so uncomfortable even compared to the A340 or other carriers that it was a pain. Seriously, no more A350 (at least as AY is concerned) for me. Decor was as bland and lacking in colour as I have ever seen on any airline including budget carriers - it seriously looked like the cheapest plane in the sky, with the feel of an all-white hospital waiting room.
Not sure what the policy is on drinks as it seems to differ depending on destination, but the desperate effort to save literally pennies was evident too. Some people didn't want wine with their first meal which was served past 1:30am (I declined the entire meal at this time though this is just a personal preference)... but when they asked on the subsequent meal before landing which was around 2pm local time they were told "sorry, no more." Just water, juice, tea and coffee. First time I have ever flown between Europe and SIN and never got a drop of wine... sad.
All in all I like Finnair for the people and the airport and the great flight connection timings, but I feel that they didn't get the A350 right with the econ class and the cheap look overall which I never felt on the A340. And the way econ has slid to budget airline standards is simply astounding and something I would never have seen coming. Oh well, time to open my horizons once more and look at other options more closely.
Mar 31, 2017, 1:36 pm
#896
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
Programs: lots of shiny metal cards
Posts: 14,104
You're quite correct: if flying duo, you are actually two people flying solo. OTOH the the duo seats give enough privacy that I don't really care now if end up in one of those.
Mar 31, 2017, 1:38 pm
#897
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: TLL
Programs: AY+ Plat, TK Elite
Posts: 233
The seats were so uncomfortable even compared to the A340 or other carriers that it was a pain. Seriously, no more A350 (at least as AY is concerned) for me. Decor was as bland and lacking in colour as I have ever seen on any airline including budget carriers - it seriously looked like the cheapest plane in the sky, with the feel of an all-white hospital waiting room.
However, I absolutely love the Finnair interiors! To me they are the most beautiful interiors I've ever flown in
To each their own I guess.
Apr 4, 2017, 2:24 am
#899
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PVG, FRA, SEA, HEL
Programs: UA Premier Gold
Posts: 4,783
Just water, juice, tea and coffee.
Are you serious?
I have a hard remembering which airline serves free booze on the second meals prior to landing on a Europe-Asia flight.