duvin

It's also handy if both of one's passports are busy getting visas in them.

intuition

It is. Swedish national ID is as useful as any ID card, but costs more than a passport. I have had one, didn't renew it.

WilcoRoger

From another source I read that Swedish IDs are not accepted as travel documents because they have no expiry date. Someone with a Swedish ID might want to confirm this.

Otherwise IDs within the EU are just fine and many IDs are valid in several non-EU countries too - one of my IDs is valid at least to Serbia, Kosova, Albania, Macedonia, Georgia + the usual suspects of Switzerland, Norway, Iceland and the mini-states.

Funnily, the Finnish police site mentions only the EU + EEA countires for validity, while looking at Timatic for e.g. Albania returns:

National Finland (FI) /Embarkation Finland (FI) Destination Albania (AL)

Albania (AL)

Passport required.
- Passports and/or passport replacing documents must be valid for at least 3 months from date of arrival.

Passport Exemptions:
- National Identity Card issued to nationals of Finland.

I never carry a passport to these nearly 40 countries - one less thing to lose.

intuition

Not true. The national ID, issued by the police, has a 5 year validity. Mine expired a while ago, so I'm pretty sure.

The source may have confused this with the ID issued by tax office. This one still has a expiry date, but (IIRC) does not state the citizenship of bearer, nor is it passport machine readable. Without nationality, it is not accepted under the Schengen regime.


While thinking of this,

it might be that Sweden will not accept anyone returning from non-schengen territory on just a ID card. I'm not sure how Finland does, when people arrive at non-schengen side and are not carrying a passport?

Courmisch

No. That would be a violation of the Schengen agreement, AFAIU.

As a matter of principles, I show my national ID card whenever and wherever I return to the Schengen agreement area, regardless of where I return from (i.e. even if a visa or a passport was involved). I have done so at ARN, CDG, CPH, HEL and XDB at least, and it never even raised an eyebrow from the border guard.

intuition

How do you reckon this?

The schengen agreement is about abolishing passport controls between member states. How would it be a violation to enforce passport control on travellers from non-schengen states?!

ffay005

The Finnish constitution, §9, grants every Finnish citizen the right to enter the country anytime, with or without documents.

Surely there would be some questioning if the person doesn't have any documents, ie a copy of their (stolen?) passport, a driver's license etc. The police have a register with lots of information (previous addresses, parents' and family members' data etc) which they use to check that the person really is who he claims to be. Plus in most cases they can see the person's photo scanned in the system, too. Not sure if border guards have access to this register directly or if it requires you to be taken to a police station.

Courmisch

The Schengen agreement is about abolishing identity controls between member states and uniformizing identity controls at borders with non-member states. I am allowed to re-enter my home country with my national ID card, thus I must be able to re-enter the Schengen area likewise.

Otherwise, you'd have a lot of problems with people traveling outside Schengen with Schengen area ID cards. This might be uncommon in Nordic countries, but it is the norm for travel between the Common Area, Turkey, etc and Schengen member states issuing ID cards at no costs.

TTL

I still do not understand, why carrying a valid passport would be any way inferior of an act compared to carrying a dubious identity card? Those do not work in e-gates anyhow.

intuition

I'm having a hard time to understand this. Not the words, but the consequences of it.

You are saying that a Schengen country is not allowed to enforce the schengen external borders with a passport control, because Finnish citizens have a constitutional right to enter Finland without passport?

How does this work for someone permanently resident in Finland, but not a Finnish citizen? Can they cross the external Schengen border without passport?


And why are all those refugees risking their lives on boat wrecks in the Mediterranean when all they need is a fake Finnish ID card?




Really? So pre-schengen, all Europeean border controls were just identity checks?

Any schengen member state is free to check travellers identity at any geografic location of their territory. A member state agrees to stop doing permanent traditional border protection controls at borders between member states. They are still allowed to do temporary border protection controls and they are allowed to do identy controls.

This has nothing to do with the UK-example though, as UK is outside schengen and travellers from UK are crossing the Schengen external border.

FFlash

I have kept my passport with me since 2 years when I was last time asked for it in Germany, where the strict officer did not like my ID card
"aber nein, nein, gar nicht!"
However, since then nobody has asked me any ID proof in two last years within Schengen...

Courmisch

A Schengen country is bound by the rules of the Schengen agreement. In particular, it is required to let Schengen member state nationals into its territory if they have a valid identification. That identification can be a passport issued by a Schengen member state, but it can also be a national ID card - one that states the citizenship, has an expiration dates and probably fits a few other criteria.

More generally, it is required to let holders of valid travel documents for any Schengen member state in. For instance, a foreigner can enter the Schengen area through Finland if s/he holds a visa for Sweden, so long as Sweden is the primary destination.

They are of course some exceptions such as member state special territories not covered by the Schengen agreement, or immediate threats to security.

It does not work because you cannot get a National ID card if you are not a national. The Finnish driving license is not valid for travel outside Finland, because it is not a valid National ID card as far as the Schengen agreement is concerned.

Maybe it is not that easy and cheap to make a fake Finnish ID card that would fool border guards in Greece or Italy?

Courmisch

I only renewed my passport recently, so I had not been able to use the e-gates until then anyway. But now, I must say I am unimpressed.

First attempt at AMS: the e-gates are out-of-service for unspecified reasons.

Second attempt at HEL: the e-gates takes much longer than the mostly deserted EU/EEA/CH lane.

Third attempt at HEL: the e-gates rejects my passport, even though it is almost brand new and in perfect shape.

Forth attempt at HEL: I do not even bother, head straight for the EU lane, and overtake several passengers who used the e-gates.

FFlash

I somewhat agree on this.
Sometimes the automatic gates don't work.
I do the same in HEL too: if the manned lane is near empty, I choose it, but if longer lanes, then I choose e-gate, even if they have been quite slow for me, but not so slow as to complain that much

WilcoRoger

Guys,

just for the sake of clarity:

EU/EEC issued National IDs are accepted to enter the EU. Period. Not all countries have such ID at all (DK, GB comes to mind) and not all that have make it compulsory (FI, SE)

Worth noting that DLs are not considered as valid ID to enter the EU or even for travel within the EU (with the exception within the Nordic Passport union)

As for the Swedish ID - I found that those issued after 1/Oct/2005 ("new type") containing citizenship info are valid for travel. So it seems its not the expiry but mention of the citizenship in the doc which is at issue.