Bidding for biz seats
Jan 10, 2015, 4:01 am
#16
Join Date: Oct 2008
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The only situation where this would be of interest would be if my employer did not allow travel in J, I'd be interested in paying for the upgrade myself.
Jan 10, 2015, 11:30 am
#18
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Jan 12, 2015, 2:16 am
#19
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
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The guys at plusgrade or optiontown must have landed their gig at AY, probably as part of the project that suggested Y+. 
Feb 17, 2015, 1:39 am
#20
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY, SK, TK
Posts: 7,595
Just remembered this thread when I first time saw the bidding option on AY.
I had booked earlier tix for me and better half, both cleared voucher upgrades, and now we decided to take kids with us (
). I went and bought Y tix for them, asked to upgrade but they were waitlisted. Later, now I was just checking on my MMB to see if upgrades have cleared, they were not, but I saw the bidding tool option. I clicked it for curiosity, but it told me it is not available, seemingly due to the upgrades pending.
Seems that they will certainly sell bids first and upgrade only later if no bids are placed.
I had booked earlier tix for me and better half, both cleared voucher upgrades, and now we decided to take kids with us (
). I went and bought Y tix for them, asked to upgrade but they were waitlisted. Later, now I was just checking on my MMB to see if upgrades have cleared, they were not, but I saw the bidding tool option. I clicked it for curiosity, but it told me it is not available, seemingly due to the upgrades pending.Seems that they will certainly sell bids first and upgrade only later if no bids are placed.
Feb 20, 2015, 9:01 pm
#22
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
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Well, it is not an auction, it is the (much hated) NZ concept IIUC. There is a hidden minimum bid that must be topped, otherwise seat goes to those waitlisted on upgrade for points/voucher.
It is blind because this way some bidders will put in a way to high bid and airline makes more money.
It is blind because this way some bidders will put in a way to high bid and airline makes more money.
Feb 21, 2015, 12:00 am
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: AY Plat
Posts: 127
Well, it is not an auction, it is the (much hated) NZ concept IIUC. There is a hidden minimum bid that must be topped, otherwise seat goes to those waitlisted on upgrade for points/voucher.
It is blind because this way some bidders will put in a way to high bid and airline makes more money.
It is blind because this way some bidders will put in a way to high bid and airline makes more money.
Feb 21, 2015, 1:43 am
#24
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
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Very true. Designed for casual flyer who might be convinced to indulge themselves and are unfamiliar with the market value. Hidden means you cloak the true supply-demand situation in order to hopefully tilt the prices upwards. Cant blame an airline for trying to make more money, but one whishes it didnt have to come at the expense of the loyal customers.
Oct 21, 2015, 10:10 am
#25
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: A3 Miles+Bonus
Posts: 30
Is that so?! I agree, that looks bad.
Still, upgrades for points/vouchers have their own fare bucket. I took the wording "if seats are available" meaning that the bidding system would work against normal revenue availability. Then it wouldn't affect, but then again there is no way of knowing.
What are the dates for this to happen on BKK flights? It is fairly easy to go into the upgrade search tool and see if voucher upgrade availability have been slaughtered.
Still, upgrades for points/vouchers have their own fare bucket. I took the wording "if seats are available" meaning that the bidding system would work against normal revenue availability. Then it wouldn't affect, but then again there is no way of knowing.
What are the dates for this to happen on BKK flights? It is fairly easy to go into the upgrade search tool and see if voucher upgrade availability have been slaughtered.
My guess is that, if bid upgrades pulled from the same fare bucket as points upgrades, they wouldn't have let me bid at all.
It just wouldn't make sense otherwise. Finnair gains nothing by a user bidding an amount for an upgrade that isn't even available in the first place. Especially considering that bidding doesn't obligate the passenger to pay, even if the bid is accepted.
On top that, seatmap on ExpertFlyer for my flight shows J wide open one month out (only 1 seat occupied in the whole cabin). So hopefully that's promising...
Oct 21, 2015, 10:43 am
#26
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
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...
My guess is that, if bid upgrades pulled from the same fare bucket as points upgrades, they wouldn't have let me bid at all.
It just wouldn't make sense otherwise. Finnair gains nothing by a user bidding an amount for an upgrade that isn't even available in the first place. Especially considering that bidding doesn't obligate the passenger to pay, even if the bid is accepted.
On top that, seatmap on ExpertFlyer for my flight shows J wide open one month out (only 1 seat occupied in the whole cabin). So hopefully that's promising...
My guess is that, if bid upgrades pulled from the same fare bucket as points upgrades, they wouldn't have let me bid at all.
It just wouldn't make sense otherwise. Finnair gains nothing by a user bidding an amount for an upgrade that isn't even available in the first place. Especially considering that bidding doesn't obligate the passenger to pay, even if the bid is accepted.
On top that, seatmap on ExpertFlyer for my flight shows J wide open one month out (only 1 seat occupied in the whole cabin). So hopefully that's promising...
Anyway, HEL-PEK never ever has any F (upgrade) space released, so if they are offering bidding on this route it most certainly comes from another source than F.
Also, upgrade space is a rather volatile comodity. Many people think airlines release x seats for every flight y days ahead of take-off, and then the seats gets taken a few at the time. But F availability comes and goes all the time. If there is zero F on a certain flight at one point in time, it doesn't mean there won't be more F seats at a later point in time *). It really depends on revenue management and their ongoing evaluation of supply/demand
*)Unless it is PEK - intuition rule # 1 - there never is any F on HEL-PEK
Oct 21, 2015, 3:25 pm
#27
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HEL
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My last China trips were HEL-PEK-PVG-HEL, where PEK I got upgrade through, but not PVG, and another HEL-PEK-HEL where I got both legs upgraded. It is a while since then and I'm not flying much there nowadays but wanted to give a data point.
Oct 22, 2015, 4:13 am
#28
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
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OK, but does "got upgraded" mean that you in the end got upgraded, perhaps after waitlist or for operational reasons? Because that isn't the same as F availability which is released as part of revenue management routine descisions.
As far as I can see, 3 flights HEL-PEK and 2 flights PEK-HEL has F space - of all flights the coming 11 months.
Feb 21, 2016, 1:42 am
#29
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
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Bidding live for more destinations?
With access to several peoples account and several upcoming trips I can say that the bidding function is live for more destinations, perhaps on all?
Some observations:
Some observations:
1. Only tickets sold by finnair.com works. Tickets booked via OTA like expedia does not work. You can see the ticket on MMB, the link to "Name your price" is displayed, but when you go to bidding page, bidding is somehow disabled. (You get no visual que, they just removed the sliders. Page still says "chose you flight and name your price" but there is no input method. Really confusing if you don't know what the bidding page is supposed to look like)
2. Bidding has no connection to F (upgrade fare bucket) availabililty. You are solicited to bid even on flights with F/0
3. Possible bids range from 100€ to 1000€. In my case the initial suggestion made by the interface is 460€, which is graded as "3,5 stars"on a 1-5 scale, while 470€ is a 4-star bid
"Strength of your bid" table (read "+" as "and up")
100€+ 1 star
146€+ 1,5 star
191€+ 2 star
263€+ 2,5 star
335€+ 3-star
403€+ 3,5 star
470€+ 4-star
556€+ 4,5 star
641€+ 5-star
4. I am getting the same rating for different segments so the bids and their star-rating clearly has nothing to do with the current load factor, existing bids or anything like that. They are just price-points set by Finnair.
I am guessing that at T-7 days, Finnair will scan the bids and accept the bids if they either are
5. If your trip has short haul connections, they are listed in the auction. However, you are not allowed to bid on them. On shorthaul flights there is a text saying "Auction has finished" and they have no sliders. The interface looks like you only bid for the longhaul segment, but who knows. It is pretty unclear.
2. Bidding has no connection to F (upgrade fare bucket) availabililty. You are solicited to bid even on flights with F/0
3. Possible bids range from 100€ to 1000€. In my case the initial suggestion made by the interface is 460€, which is graded as "3,5 stars"on a 1-5 scale, while 470€ is a 4-star bid
"Strength of your bid" table (read "+" as "and up")
100€+ 1 star
146€+ 1,5 star
191€+ 2 star
263€+ 2,5 star
335€+ 3-star
403€+ 3,5 star
470€+ 4-star
556€+ 4,5 star
641€+ 5-star
4. I am getting the same rating for different segments so the bids and their star-rating clearly has nothing to do with the current load factor, existing bids or anything like that. They are just price-points set by Finnair.
I am guessing that at T-7 days, Finnair will scan the bids and accept the bids if they either are
a) silly high
or
b) they are risking an oversold situation and there are decent bids from flyers they want to upgrade.
The actual process is hidden - Finnair only says "there are a number of factors that decides if your bid is accepted."or
b) they are risking an oversold situation and there are decent bids from flyers they want to upgrade.
5. If your trip has short haul connections, they are listed in the auction. However, you are not allowed to bid on them. On shorthaul flights there is a text saying "Auction has finished" and they have no sliders. The interface looks like you only bid for the longhaul segment, but who knows. It is pretty unclear.
Last edited by intuition; Feb 21, 2016 at 1:54 am Reason: Adding #5
Feb 21, 2016, 6:54 am
#30
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
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Thanks for exlaining the system, Intuition!
I wonder who they'll decide to upgrade. If a plat bids €350 and a non-AY+ bids €400, will they choose the plat?
It would also be interesting to know if they have certain hidden thresholds, above which they always accept the upgrade if there's space and below which they will go if Y is overbooked. Maybe we'll hear some experiences later here on FT.
I wonder who they'll decide to upgrade. If a plat bids €350 and a non-AY+ bids €400, will they choose the plat?
It would also be interesting to know if they have certain hidden thresholds, above which they always accept the upgrade if there's space and below which they will go if Y is overbooked. Maybe we'll hear some experiences later here on FT.